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2 Stoves to avoid

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Mike Wilson, Dec 12, 2007.

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  1. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    I think it is only fair to warn people out there shopping for stoves.

    The Dutchwest 2500 (DW 2500)- On another hearth forum (quite similar to this one Wink ) there was two members who had weld failures, resulting in the stove collapsing on itself. One member had his stove replaced with another brand, the other got a replacement of the same stove and shims were added to support the firebox.

    Anything Everburn- Finicky stove can only burn clean with a 3" coal bed. Multiple users report poor performance, speratic reburn "everburn", constant babysitting, excessive smoke and fouling of the chimney. Some owners have scrapped there new stoves and moved on to different stoves with a proven design. Some are hanging in there, some are looking to unload them..preferably to an insomniac who has no neighbours and best friend is a chimney sweep.

    -- Mike, with credit to Gunner.

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  2. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Mike, I think it must be mentioned that I doubt the accuracy of that "licensed" bit, and until confirmed would not lump stoves from different manufacturers together. Everburn (I think) is a trademark or name used by vermont castings, while a few other manufacturers use technology described as downdraft, cross burn and similar. I know from experience (Resolute Acclaim) that such stoves CAN work, and we have lots of folks here very happy with Acclaims, Quads (with some kind of cross burn, although I am not very familiar), etc.

    So I would say....as I say in the Pellet Room and elsewhere - when you are going to spend a lot of money on a particular brand or stove, look at the stove ratings (on this site), talk to other long-term users (also here, but if possible elsewhere such as the Yahoo Wood Heat Forum, Gardenweb, etc.), and make certain that the stove matches what you want to do with it.

    This is off the top of my head, but I seriously doubt that this "everburn" is licensed, in other words meaning that other companies pay a royalty to the designers for it. Possible......but, even if so, I know for a fact that Harman and Travis (and I'm certain Quad) did a LOT of their own testing and R&D;and modified the systems to match what they want (doesn't mean they are right!)......

    Maybe we can get that little tidbit (whether an exact system is licensed) confirmed or denied.
  3. TMonter

    TMonter Minister of Fire

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    How about adding a moderator driven forum for stove models with known issues and defects? That way as we see a pattern develop in stoves you can track them. This isn't something to hack on manufacturers but maybe post the problem and what resolution was provided by the manufacturer.
  4. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

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    Which forum am I in, the real one or the fake one....they all look the same :lol:
  5. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I guess the question would be what a "known" issue is. Denial is more than a river in Egypt.

    Another problem is that models change so quickly sometimes and there are so many of them! I really would question my (or anyones) ability to be fair in such a forum.

    What I would like to do is test some of these babies myself - all into the same chimney and setup with basic instruments (nothing fancy, just probes and CO, etc.).....

    In fact, I have held off installing a woodstove in my kitchen area with the idea that installing a nice class A chimney out in my attached shop, with a test bench setup, might be a better use of my time and money.

    Of course, I would have to buy the stove, which does present a problem!

    Anyway, back to the subject at hand.....there is so much different about each person and setup that I have a hard time with a simple solution. I think we know some basics, which could be generalized, as which stoves are more or less likely to be "set and forget" models.

    Another idea would be to poll dealers and installers on this privately. They know, obviously. Then share the results.....not for each dealer, but in total.
  6. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Methinks our beloved Webmaster doth miss the entire point of this thread... 8-/

    -- Mike
  7. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I am very naive. Almost pure sometimes. Ruins me in business.

    Clue me in.
  8. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

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    :lol:
  9. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Sometimes the sad truth is the sad truth. We've had folks come on with older cat jotul 3's and 8's, and I made it clear that was not Jotuls finest moment! But they are not being sold anymore, so that is of less importance than some.

    It may be hard for a Summit or Jotul owner to understand this, but there is a arse for every seat. Some folks stay in $500 a night hotel rooms and others in $39. ones. I read some reviews in our ratings sections where folks rebuilt their stove for $1,000 and said they expected to do so after 8-10 years. Other would flinch at the thought of spending $200 on their stove, even when they break the glass themselves. So therein lies the issues.

    I think the Google Site Search can answer a lot of these questions for folks, since it scans the ratings AND forum, and wiki, etc,
  10. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Hey, did we just get offended... did he offend us? Somehow, I feel vaguely violated! :bug:

    Go read your PMs big guy...

    -- Mike
  11. CountryGal

    CountryGal Feeling the Heat

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    Hey! I didn't get no stinking PM! :)
  12. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    I think the Mods are very fair in this forum. I have gone to other forums for DIYers and people looking for a particular choice as per product to purchase.

    As per what I have read the last weeks as a member and over the shoulder of my significant other for two years, this forum is conducted very well, and even though the "BOSS" does run it as a site for income, He does a super job!

    If you want something better... start your own F***'g site.

    Enuf said! >:-(
  13. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Let me get this straight... you live in a dessert? This is a wood burning forum... quick question... what are you burning, cactus? %-P

    I am the PM Nazi.. No PMs for you!

    -- Mike
  14. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    They just joking with me....Jimmy.

    But they better watch out, we'll sick the Jersey Devil on them clowns!
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    No offense but we have day jobs too. The last thing we want is more work ;-).
  16. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    Funny how I see people respond to problems here, some are very good and detailed, others tell the original poster "I'll tell you how to resolve the problem in a PM". I only surmise that the problem solver doesn't want to admit that there are defects with their own stove.

    Some people respond with a statement saying "Oh.. I did this and it works with this product".. yet they don't mention what product it is.. just that it meets such and such standards.

    When I started here, I asked a few questions and was looking for possible "new and improved" products along with standards and costs, I had not done a hearth job in about 12 years but worked with stone/tile and hearth projects for 20+ years prior. I am not against "new and improved" and I have learned a lot here.

    There is nothing wrong with disclosing problems, nothing wrong with solutions, their is a HUGE problem with people not wanting to share information.

    Off my fire box and sharing a glass of wine with the Piney Devil :down:
    -Jim-
  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    What, and not a mention of Vogelzang box wood stoves?
  18. CountryGal

    CountryGal Feeling the Heat

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    Yep, and it is supposed to be down to 32 overnight, and I've been burning pretty much 24/7 for the past few days. :)
  19. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    Appears Mike has no idea how cold it can be in certain parts of the world.... poor guy. :coolcheese: .. maybe he has to get out of his cave. :question:
  20. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Somehow you both missed the fact that I wasn't commenting on the temperatures there, but rather what she was burning. Do they import wood to the desert? Oh well, I can only try.

    Oh, and Jim, not to worry, I get out of my cave once in a while!

    -- Mike
  21. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    Heck, we know there ain't no caves in Orient Point ;-)
  22. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Not a one! And, sadly, there's not even a bar... (pounds head on desk, sighs in frustration).

    -- Mike

    Not a Caveman
  23. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    A bar! What do you think - that they want to bring to riff-raff in there? No way, Jose. They drink alone (or at the block BBQ). Anyway, from what I hear, 50% of the population are Mikes relatives (that's why he made certain to find a mate from other side of the country...mixing that gene pool up).

    It's warm here now, I can see the black of the driveway!

    Waiting to meet cable guy so the new HD that we ordered (to match our "small" new flat screen) will work. As usual, it does not work out of the box! Now we can get the Hearth Channel in wide screen.
  24. 90 Degree Elbow

    90 Degree Elbow New Member

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    ''Mike Wilson - 11 December 2007 10:19 PM
    I think it is only fair to warn people out there shopping for stoves.

    The Dutchwest 2500 (DW 2500)- On another hearth forum (quite similar to this one Wink ) there was two members who had weld failures, resulting in the stove collapsing on itself. One member had his stove replaced with another brand, the other got a replacement of the same stove and shims were added to support the firebox.

    Anything Everburn- Finicky stove can only burn clean with a 3” coal bed. Multiple users report poor performance, speratic reburn “everburn”, constant babysitting, excessive smoke and fouling of the chimney. Some owners have scrapped there new stoves and moved on to different stoves with a proven design. Some are hanging in there, some are looking to unload them..preferably to an insomniac who has no neighbours and best friend is a chimney sweep.

    -- Mike, with credit to Gunner."

    From what I know Dutchwest steel stoves do not have the "Everburn System". Everburn is only on Cast models.
  25. JimWalshin845

    JimWalshin845 New Member

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    OMG.... deprived and depraved.... come down to the Pineys.... we have lots of gin mills and lots of wood.

    Safe journeys <burp>
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