2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

We were lucky and the pipe is a straight shot from second floor to above the roofline at top of the house - no turns and it is 4' above the roof. Stove to cap is 24' and it does not appear to have any draft issues. I suspect I need to put more wood in it or pack it more tightly if I am going to turn it way down? I am putting in a fair amount of wood, but still a lot of space in it. It's finally gotten cold up here so I will try to do a better job of packing the stove next time I am looking for a longer burn.

Fill stove with dry wood, run 5 - 10 minutes wide open in bypass to get wood load completely charred and/or catalytic probe thermometer near active region. Close bypass, run on high for 20 minutes. Turn thermostat to desired setting. Easy, peasy.

Now, if you don't have dry wood, none of this will work as prescribed.

 

[Woody Stover]

I also had a few cracked bricks in the back of my two Ashfords, and for the life of me, can't figure out how it happened. We gently place wood into the stove, we don't chuck 'em in from across the room.
Watch out... here comes Woody Stover with his notepad, and and comments on this being another reason BK's are inferior.

Yep, they are trying to save money by using cheap Chinese bricks. I never said the BKs were inferior, only that they weren't as superior as some.

Creosote comes in many forms. the thick tarry black stuff is unburnt. its tough to scrape off. so we stuffed the cap with newspaper, set it on my concrete driveway and lit it off....i have a 25' insulated ss liner inside a masonry fireplace....my stuff is always right at the top. hard to keep hot all the way up.

Oops, sloppy reading, I mistakenly thought he was stuffing newspaper in the flue and starting a "controlled" fire, as I've heard of some guys doing.
Yep, the top few feet of the liner, where the masonry is exposed above the roof line, is the only place I see much creo.

Can you bugger the cat up by opening the stove when it is too hot and what is the correct way of opening a hot stove, baffle open should be ok?
Yeah, open the bypass and let the cat cool off for a few minutes. But you are generally burning the entire load down, and the cat is inactive by the time you have to open the door to reload.
Read your manual several times...this stuff may be covered but if not, you may learn lots of other good stuff.

Can you bugger up the cat by going above the active zone and what type of safety factors are built in to the gauge up top and how much can we go over ;-)?
Yes, the "wash coat" (catalytic metals that are sprayed onto the substrate) can peel if the cat is subjected to temps over 1800 frequently or for extended periods. On your unmarked BK cat dial, I think 1600 is about 3 o'clock on the dial, and I would try to keep it under that...others may disagree and run it higher.

Can you bugger up the cat by shutting the baffle to early as there must be moisture that goes through it on a reload when it is still very much in the active zone and closed quickly after the reload and burnt on high for 1/2 an hour.
1)-you don't wanna open the door on a hot cat and 2)-toss wet wood on the coals...that would be worse yet. A steel can may not be as susceptible to some of this abuse...it won't crack like a ceramic cat. Still, the less a steel cat is subjected to rapid expansion and contraction, the better I would think.
Now, I would be more concerned with closing the bypass too soon, with the cat not being in the active zone yet. It seems to me that you would then get creo deposited in the cat, which would later be burned to ash when the cat finally lit off, but would stick to the inside surfaces. I don't think that would blow out as easily as fly ash from the firebox that sticks to the face of the cat.

 

[jetsam]

so, if you have the crackly fragile stuff on your cap, its burnt creosote, meaning the cap lit off at some point.

I am pretty sure that's not right.

Or maybe I do have weekly chimney fires, but I do not think so.

Edit: Upon reflection, I do have evidence- the installer stuffed a handful of pink fiberglass around the top of the liner, under the cap. When I reinstalled the stove and liner this year, the fiberglass was a little melty but not melted into a chunk or vaporized- and that stuff starts to melt around 600F, well short of a creosote fire's temp.

 

[shoot-straight]

I am pretty sure that's not right.

Or maybe I do have weekly chimney fires, but I do not think so.

read highbeams post- he describes what i am saying perfectly. after ignition it turns in to a cheese-puff type black product. if you have that- and its pretty obvious what im talking about when you see it, thats what happens when it lights off. there is a crunchy form that i have seen as well. i have it too at the top of the flue. they are not the same. one is flammable, one is not.

i will take and post pics next time i get a chance

 

[tarzan]

I am pretty sure that's not right.

Or maybe I do have weekly chimney fires, but I do not think so.

Yeah, he's right but just because it's dry and easily removed doesn't make it the leftovers of a chimney fire. Crackly, fragile being key words. It would be more like puffy stuff that would crumble with the slightest squeeze between the fingers.

Believe me, I found out what the leftovers of a chimney fire looked like one cold morning while the power was out and the water supply was frozen. I changed my stove and my ways before quick after that

Shoot-straight, wasn't trying to walk over your post. We posted about the same time.

 

[jetsam]

My cap creosote is dry and crunchy, but I would not describe it as cheese-puffesque (though now I need to find a way to use that word in conversation, and the current political situation may present me with a golden opportunity...).

Err anyway, small black knobbly crunchies, doesn't sound like your larger fluffy stuff.

 

[claybe]

Okay. I have been burning for a few weeks now (off and on). I have dry wood, 14 feet of pipe, a reworked thermostat (BK recalibrate last year), a block off plate and cat is fine. I have been having this issue for the last few years and still can't figure it out. I load the stove, light it up, let it burn until in the active zone, shut the bypass, let it go for at least 20 minutes and then turn the thermostat down. Here's where the issue happens. If I turn the T-stat down too low, it smells like smoke. It seems like the fire doesn't "glow" anymore either and we smell smoke. If I turn it up until I see a little glow, then the smoke smell goes away. I see a lot of you posting that you can turn it down as low as you want and it runs just fine. I can't figure this out. Last time I did the dollar bill test on the door it was fine (last season). Bypass gasket was replaced before last season. Bypass clicks after I shut it. Don't know what else it could be??? Anyone experience this before? Do you think the house is too tight not allowing a strong enough draft? It is a drafty 1975 ranch with a walk out basement. Old windows that are drafty. Doors are tight. The stove is a 2012 Princess Insert with stainless single wall pipe in the chimney. Thoughts?


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[drstorm]

Okay. I have been burning for a few weeks now (off and on). I have dry wood, 14 feet of pipe, a reworked thermostat (BK recalibrate last year), a block off plate and cat is fine. I have been having this issue for the last few years and still can't figure it out. I load the stove, light it up, let it burn until in the active zone, shut the bypass, let it go for at least 20 minutes and then turn the thermostat down. Here's where the issue happens. If I turn the T-stat down too low, it smells like smoke. It seems like the fire doesn't "glow" anymore either and we smell smoke. If I turn it up until I see a little glow, then the smoke smell goes away. I see a lot of you posting that you can turn it down as low as you want and it runs just fine. I can't figure this out. Last time I did the dollar bill test on the door it was fine (last season). Bypass gasket was replaced before last season. Bypass clicks after I shut it. Don't know what else it could be??? Anyone experience this before? Do you think the house is too tight not allowing a strong enough draft? It is a drafty 1975 ranch with a walk out basement. Old windows that are drafty. Doors are tight. The stove is a 2012 Princess Insert with stainless single wall pipe in the chimney. Thoughts?


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I have a BK Chinook 30 and it seems no matter the fuel load,anytime I turn the dial lower than 1.75-2 for a longer burn,I risk a cat stall.
I know many have posted that each stove is different and the need to find the sweet spot,so about a 2 seems to be mine.
I can still get 24 hour plus burns with eco-bricks at this setting.I'm sure that will drop to 12 with daytime temperatures in the teens and nights near zero.

 

[Highbeam]

Okay. I have been burning for a few weeks now (off and on). I have dry wood, 14 feet of pipe, a reworked thermostat (BK recalibrate last year), a block off plate and cat is fine. I have been having this issue for the last few years and still can't figure it out. I load the stove, light it up, let it burn until in the active zone, shut the bypass, let it go for at least 20 minutes and then turn the thermostat down. Here's where the issue happens. If I turn the T-stat down too low, it smells like smoke. It seems like the fire doesn't "glow" anymore either and we smell smoke. If I turn it up until I see a little glow, then the smoke smell goes away. I see a lot of you posting that you can turn it down as low as you want and it runs just fine. I can't figure this out. Last time I did the dollar bill test on the door it was fine (last season). Bypass gasket was replaced before last season. Bypass clicks after I shut it. Don't know what else it could be??? Anyone experience this before? Do you think the house is too tight not allowing a strong enough draft? It is a drafty 1975 ranch with a walk out basement. Old windows that are drafty. Doors are tight. The stove is a 2012 Princess Insert with stainless single wall pipe in the chimney. Thoughts?


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You're turning it down too far. You can't just Willy nilly turn the stat down to zero. Too low and you stall the cat or don't send enough heat up the flue to maintain draft and prevent condensation. My lowest setting is just under halfway between min and max.

 

[claybe]

You're turning it down too far. You can't just Willy nilly turn the stat down to zero. Too low and you stall the cat or don't send enough heat up the flue to maintain draft and prevent condensation. My lowest setting is just under halfway between min and max.

My sweet spot is in the same place. It is where I get "the glow". So do low settings depend on outside temps?? Willy nilly. Ha!


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[begreen]

More likely dependent on draft, which in turn is dependent on several factors including outside temp.

 

[tarzan]

Claybe, Maybe I'm the reason you got that idea because I have posted that I can turn mine down until the thermostat is completely shut and stay in active BUT this seems to be an exception, not the rule.

Besides, I have a small hole in my thermostat providing air no matter how far I turn it down that you may or may not have in your insert.

 

[Ashful]

Okay. I have been burning for a few weeks now (off and on). I have dry wood, 14 feet of pipe, a reworked thermostat (BK recalibrate last year), a block off plate and cat is fine. I have been having this issue for the last few years and still can't figure it out. I load the stove, light it up, let it burn until in the active zone, shut the bypass, let it go for at least 20 minutes and then turn the thermostat down. Here's where the issue happens. If I turn the T-stat down too low, it smells like smoke. It seems like the fire doesn't "glow" anymore either and we smell smoke. If I turn it up until I see a little glow, then the smoke smell goes away. I see a lot of you posting that you can turn it down as low as you want and it runs just fine. I can't figure this out. Last time I did the dollar bill test on the door it was fine (last season). Bypass gasket was replaced before last season. Bypass clicks after I shut it. Don't know what else it could be??? Anyone experience this before? Do you think the house is too tight not allowing a strong enough draft? It is a drafty 1975 ranch with a walk out basement. Old windows that are drafty. Doors are tight. The stove is a 2012 Princess Insert with stainless single wall pipe in the chimney. Thoughts?


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Short pipe = marginal draft = don't turn it down too far. I have two, one on 15 feet of pipe, the other on closer to 30 feet. I can turn the stove on the taller pipe down to zero, no problem. The stove on the shorter pipe can't bet set quite as low, unless it's blistering cold, but I still have no trouble getting burns over 30 hours out of it.

 

[volunbeer]

You're turning it down too far. You can't just Willy nilly turn the stat down to zero. Too low and you stall the cat or don't send enough heat up the flue to maintain draft and prevent condensation. My lowest setting is just under halfway between min and max.

Thanks for this - I have been trying to dial knob down to about a quarter above lowest setting and I am in the same boat apparently. This described what my stove has been doing and I thought I was doing something wrong because you hear so much about turning it way down. If I turn it down too far the cat seems to be stalling after a few hours. However, I have not been really packing the stove because I have mostly been home since it was put in and I have been playing around with it. Put much more wood in it today before leaving for work (filled in the spaces between splits with limb wood and wife came home before me 9 hours later and the cat was still about a 1/4 into the active zone so that is what we were looking for! House was right at 70 and it's been below freezing all day. It was set just below half on the knob and fan was on lowest setting. Turned air up a bit on the stove and there is still a lot of fuel left but I should be able to load again before I go to bed. Based on my own observations I am thinking more wood in the box = better low setting performance?

I know everyone brags about getting 24 hours plus on these things in shoulder season, but we wanted the stove for the next three plus months - the cold! If I can stay on 12 hour cycle with it at higher output I will be a real happy camper.

 

[claybe]

Short pipe = marginal draft = don't turn it down too far. I have two, one on 15 feet of pipe, the other on closer to 30 feet. I can turn the stove on the taller pipe down to zero, no problem. The stove on the shorter pipe can't bet set quite as low, unless it's blistering cold, but I still have no trouble getting burns over 30 hours out of it.

Tarzan, I do have a hole in my flapper.

Ashful, it seems like the warmer it is outside, the lower I can turn the stat. The colder the higher it needs to be...


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[Woody Stover]

14 feet of pipe,

If you are at altitude, that could be knocking more off your effective stack height...

 

[claybe]

If you are at altitude, that could be knocking more off your effective stack height...

Good point! We are at about 5800 ft.


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[Woody Stover]

We are at about 5800 ft

That's taking off about 2.5'.

 

[Shayne]

1) Q: Can you bugger the cat up by opening the stove when it is too hot and what is the correct way of opening a hot stove, baffle open should be ok?
A: Yeah, open the bypass and let the cat cool off for a few minutes. But you are generally burning the entire load down, and the cat is inactive by the time you have to open the door to reload.
Read your manual several times...this stuff may be covered but if not, you may learn lots of other good stuff.

2)Q: Can you bugger up the cat by going above the active zone and what type of safety factors are built in to the gauge up top and how much can we go over ;-)?
A: Yes, the "wash coat" (catalytic metals that are sprayed onto the substrate) can peel if the cat is subjected to temps over 1800 frequently or for extended periods. On your unmarked BK cat dial, I think 1600 is about 3 o'clock on the dial, and I would try to keep it under that...others may disagree and run it higher.

Can you bugger up the cat by shutting the baffle to early as there must be moisture that goes through it on a reload when it is still very much in the active zone and closed quickly after the reload and burnt on high for 1/2 an hour.
1)-you don't wanna open the door on a hot cat and 2)-toss wet wood on the coals...that would be worse yet. A steel can may not be as susceptible to some of this abuse...it won't crack like a ceramic cat. Still, the less a steel cat is subjected to rapid expansion and contraction, the better I would think.
Now, I would be more concerned with closing the bypass too soon, with the cat not being in the active zone yet. It seems to me that you would then get creo deposited in the cat, which would later be burned to ash when the cat finally lit off, but would stick to the inside surfaces. I don't think that would blow out as easily as fly ash from the firebox that sticks to the face of the cat.

1) No sometimes you would like to throw a couple of logs on before bed or before leaving the house to ensure it runs through the absences. The question was best procedure to open the stove when it is hot and not adversely effect the cat. Closing the baffle stops air from running through the cat, correct? I would think closing the baffle and waiting 2 minutes, in a hot stove, will not cool the cat to any great extent but possibly that is the answer. Just closing the baffle should stop the air from rushing through it, forget the time frame. Also maybe it is better not to crank the air to full and run it for 2 minutes prior to closing the baffle as the manual states when the stove is hot. Having to let it burn down to nothing when it is cold is obviously not the answer.

I have read the manual and it say not much on adding to a hot stove only "reload instructions", with wait 2 minute, wait 2 minutes, this maybe hot and end of fuel instructions. It explains the time frame not to get back draft. My draft has always been good and I have experience on how to open the door without smoke escaping on a hot/cool stove. Open the baffle but you do not need to give it full air to get the fire ripping prior to opening it. Crack the door slow.

Question: Proper procedure to open this stove hot to add wood? Is it the same as end of burn reload and do you need to open air full?

2) Thank you. How long is a long time, is a spike during your mandatory half to one hour burn a problem?

3) On a reload the cat is in the active zone. Manual, load wood and close baffle, as it is active, this new wood has moisture in it. We were informed by the rep that moisture contained in the wood can be a problem for the cat. You must understand that owners are not all wood guru's running around with a moisture meter. Drop it, cut it, split it, and throw it in the stove. The reason in the past I cured 2 years (and continue to) is because it burns better not because the stove can not handle it. Humidity levels fluctuate, this will be reflected in your wood. Kiln dry lumber is usually 15% (design moisture content) but can be a lot different sitting in your local lumber yard or your home.

Wanted the rep to let me know how tough these cat are so I have a feel for how much it needs to be babied. No response and time will also answer these questions. I purchased a spare at the time of purchase based on a hunch and because I usually learn by hard knocks. I have no problems with the cost of a cat, just the cat losing its efficiency.

Thanks for the response.

Regards

 

[rwhite]

Actually got a response from Condar regarding their thoughts on no gasket. You can put a gasket in but they won't sell you one nor do they recommend it. They feel the tolerances are close enough and the smoke will take the path of least resistance through the cat and not around the sides. They also stated that putting a gasket on a canned cat puts pressure on them and could warp or crack them.

I don't know if this is a case of product returns due to warping and they feel that it's better to give up a bit on emissions rather than deal with returns. Or are they truly correct?

 

[kf6hap]

BKVP says USE A GASKET.

 

[webby3650]

Actually got a response from Condar regarding their thoughts on no gasket. You can put a gasket in but they won't sell you one nor do they recommend it. They feel the tolerances are close enough and the smoke will take the path of least resistance through the cat and not around the sides. They also stated that putting a gasket on a canned cat puts pressure on them and could warp or crack them.

I don't know if this is a case of product returns due to warping and they feel that it's better to give up a bit on emissions rather than deal with returns. Or are they truly correct?

Condar is speaking in general terms here, they make cats for all different applications. Blaze King says to use a gasket in their stove. They made, designed, and tested the stove. No generalization here.

 

[tarzan]

Actually got a response from Condar regarding their thoughts on no gasket. You can put a gasket in but they won't sell you one nor do they recommend it. They feel the tolerances are close enough and the smoke will take the path of least resistance through the cat and not around the sides. They also stated that putting a gasket on a canned cat puts pressure on them and could warp or crack them.

I don't know if this is a case of product returns due to warping and they feel that it's better to give up a bit on emissions rather than deal with returns. Or are they truly correct?

Thanks for sharing that!

They should loosen there tolerance to allow for a gasket IMO.

These stoves are welded together with a gasket in the plans. Maybe they are all to the exact same tolerance but if so then Condar needs to re-measure.

They stated that the smoke would take the path of least resistance when I asked also. Fair enough but the gap between the top of the cat and the housing offers very little resistance.

 

[rwhite]

Thanks for sharing that!

They should loosen there tolerance to allow for a gasket IMO.

These stoves are welded together with a gasket in the plans. Maybe they are all to the exact same tolerance but if so then Condar needs to re-measure.

They stated that the smoke would take the path of least resistance when I asked also. Fair enough but the gap between the top of the cat and the housing offers very little resistance.

We're you able to get a full wrapped gasket around it?

 

[tarzan]

We're you able to get a full wrapped gasket around it?

Yes. The cat fit was loose enough that I didn't think it would work without a gasket but I gave Condar the benefit of the doubt and tried it there way. I was still getting smoke hours into the burn and after the fire went out the next day there was no change in the fit of the cat, no magical expansion.

It's not all bad though. So far I am completely satisfied with the performance of the Steelcat but only after it was wrapped.