2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Highbeam]

Smoke will take the path of least resistance? Lame answer. Sure, most of the smoke will run through the cat but some will go through the gaps. If this was not a problem then we wouldn't need a bypass gasket or a cat gasket. Sure would make life easier.

Closing the baffle stops air from running through the cat, correct? I would think closing the baffle and waiting 2 minutes, in a hot stove, will not cool the cat to any great extent but possibly that is the answer. Just closing the baffle should stop the air from rushing through it, forget the time frame.

We don't have a baffle in the BK. We have a bypass that is opened to allow the smoke an easier and more direct path to the flue that is more desirable than through the cat. Opening the bypass does not block the cat. We close the bypass to force all of the smoke through the cat. The cat is not terribly restrictive so I suspect that some flow is always passing through the cat.

I did a hot reload this morning. It was 17 degrees outside and I am on a 12 hour reload cycle now. It is unreasonable to expect operators to wait until the stove cools to reload a stove that is actually used for heat. So what I do is open the stat to full throttle, open the bypass, and leave it for two minutes while I collect fuel. Minimizing time that the loading door is open, I reload, close the door, let the new load ignite and char until the flue temps are climbing above 500, close the bypass, let it run on high for a few minutes and then reset the stat to the appropriate cruise setting. This whole time the cat probe reads active, in fact over 50% on the dial.

These things aren't decorative, they are heating appliances.

 

[kf6hap]

Any bypass is more creo up the flue and the grams per hour of particulate increase. Long term crud might build up between the cat and the welded steel holder filling up the available expansion/contraction space resulting in something cracking. Just a guess but why chance it? Condar likes touting no gasket as a selling point. The gasket to too inexpensive to leave out but it will work in a pinch until it arrives.

 

[rwhite]

Yes. The cat fit was loose enough that I didn't think it would work without a gasket but I gave Condar the benefit of the doubt and tried it there way. I was still getting smoke hours into the burn and after the fire went out the next day there was no change in the fit of the cat, no magical expansion.

It's not all bad though. So far I am completely satisfied with the performance of the Steelcat but only after it was wrapped.

Great info thanks

 

[Woody Stover]

The question was best procedure to open the stove when it is hot and not adversely effect the cat. Closing the baffle stops air from running through the cat, correct? I would think closing the baffle and waiting 2 minutes, in a hot stove, will not cool the cat to any great extent but possibly that is the answer

I said open the bypass (what you are calling the "baffle?") for a couple minutes before opening the door. As Highbeam said, opening the bypass allows the smoke to go straight up the flue, bypassing the cat. The cat then gets no smoke to burn, so it will cool down.

.....Also maybe it is better not to crank the air to full and run it for 2 minutes prior to closing the baffle as the manual states when the stove is hot.

You have to get the new load burning and gassing, that's why you leave the air open more for several minutes after you reload. I think Highbeam is opening the air before he loads, either to get the coals going more, or to cool the stove some. I think once the bypass is open and the cat isn't burning, it is going to cool off pretty quickly, especially a steel cat.

what I do is open the stat to full throttle, open the bypass, and leave it for two minutes while I collect fuel. Minimizing time that the loading door is open, I reload, close the door, let the new load ignite and char until the flue temps are climbing above 500, close the bypass, let it run on high for a few minutes and then reset the stat to the appropriate cruise setting. This whole time the cat probe reads active, in fact over 50% on the dial.

The cat probes don't react instantaneously to changes in temp, like a thermocouple would. When you close the bypass, does the cat begin to glow almost immediately, or is it a couple of minutes before it does? I like to see that sucker glowing almost immediately so that no creo can be deposited inside the cat, where it would eventually burn to ash which might stick, more than fly ash from the firebox would. Just a theory.

How long is a long time, is a spike during your mandatory half to one hour burn a problem?

If you are talking about the suggestion to burn "full throttle with the bypass closed, for 1/2 to 1 hr. once a week," I'm not sure why they suggest doing that. If the cat needle was going past3 o'clock (what I'm guessing is about 1600*) I would be hesitant to do it. YMMV.

On a reload the cat is in the active zone. Manual, load wood and close baffle, as it is active, this new wood has moisture in it. We were informed by the rep that moisture contained in the wood can be a problem for the cat.....Wanted the rep to let me know how tough these cat are so I have a feel for how much it needs to be babied.

I think moisture will only damage a ceramic cat, not a steel one. I think "the rep" (the veep?) might have been saying that moisture would be a problem as far as the cat's ability to light off, not that it would actually harm the cat. The cat doesn't have to be "babied" much. I think the only way to destroy a steel cat would be to overfire it often, or for an extended period, or burn materials other than cordwood in the stove, which could poison the catalyst wash coat.

 

[Shayne]

Smoke will take the path of least resistance? Lame answer. Sure, most of the smoke will run through the cat but some will go through the gaps. If this was not a problem then we wouldn't need a bypass gasket or a cat gasket. Sure would make life easier.



We don't have a baffle in the BK. We have a bypass that is opened to allow the smoke an easier and more direct path to the flue that is more desirable than through the cat. Opening the bypass does not block the cat. We close the bypass to force all of the smoke through the cat. The cat is not terribly restrictive so I suspect that some flow is always passing through the cat.

I did a hot reload this morning. It was 17 degrees outside and I am on a 12 hour reload cycle now. It is unreasonable to expect operators to wait until the stove cools to reload a stove that is actually used for heat. So what I do is open the stat to full throttle, open the bypass, and leave it for two minutes while I collect fuel. Minimizing time that the loading door is open, I reload, close the door, let the new load ignite and char until the flue temps are climbing above 500, close the bypass, let it run on high for a few minutes and then reset the stat to the appropriate cruise setting. This whole time the cat probe reads active, in fact over 50% on the dial.

These things aren't decorative, they are heating appliances.

Thanks HB;

My wording of baffle maybe too old school for this box but what I saw before placing the 6" black pipe in it was a flap that flops back and forth and closes the flow from cat and opens it to straight up the pipe (but yes it only locks when closed). The flap had a rope gasket on it similar to the door gasket, hmmm something else to go wrong. It appears to work not too much different than my old stove that directed it up over fire bricks when closed (engaged) for a "double burn" sort of say. I still do not get why we need to turn air to 6 o'clock to open the stove but I am glad that someone running these ceramic cats reloads hot with no adverse effects, as turning it to 6 would just makes the stove/cat hotter.

So far it has been long long burn times and heats over night incredibly. Just the cat is a bit of a strange beast to me and I am not into replacing it 3 times a season. Stove will most likely not be cold enough to check it any time soon but the smoke, or lack of it, out the top of the chimney and the 20+ burns seem to indicate that all is still good.

Not decorative our furnace just trying to get reassurance and keep the cat running efficiently as possible for as long as possible.

Cheers

 

[Woody Stover]

what I saw before placing the 6" black pipe in it was a flap that flops back and forth and closes the flow from cat and opens it to straight up the pipe (but yes it only locks when closed). The flap had a rope gasket on it similar to the door gasket....appears to work not too much different than my old stove that directed it up over fire bricks when closed (engaged) for a "double burn" sort of say.

Yeah, you got it.

I still do not get why we need to turn air to 6 o'clock to open the stove but I am glad that someone running these ceramic cats reloads hot with no adverse effects, as turning it to 6 would just makes the stove/cat hotter.

I think they are saying that because it will minimize smoke roll-out into the room in setups where the draft is weaker. With my stove and stack, I can open the door anytime and get no smoke....might have to open it more slowly in certain situations, though.

 

[tarzan]

Also remember that you will be bypassing the cat at the same time you turn up the thermostat during those couple minutes before reload. The cat will cool some (bypassed) but the fuel load will get hotter allowing for quicker light off of the fresh load.

With the long burn times of these stoves you will find it next to impossible to coordinate reloads for only after the cat goes inactive and probably wouldn't want to in the dead of winter.

 

[Highbeam]

I open the stat fully and the bypass for a few minutes before opening the door to increase the heat in the remaining fuel load for faster ignition of the new load as well as establish a strong draft which aids in ignition but also in keeping the smoke from rolling out of the loading door.

Opening the bypass doesn't block the cat. The bypass only lifts a few inches and provides a lower resistance path right to the flue. Yes, there is a rope gasket there but with Condar not even wanting a cat gasket I don't know how important the bypass seal really is. Mine passes the dollar bill test even though I seem to have melted the gasket retainers somewhat.

I have a steel cat in my princess and it has always ignited and glowed (glown, glows?) right away when I flop the bypass. I don't engage the cat until I expect successful activation.

 

[Highbeam]

Yeehaw.... 17 degrees this morning. We get to the teens every year and sometimes single digits and have to really load up the BK for some btus.

Funny how the stat automatically increases the burn rate when it's cold out. It's not just maintaining the stove body temperature, seems the draft strength and room temp factor in too. The stat is pretty magical, mine seems to really move a lot. I can see it open and close by watching the fire flare up and down with added and remove combustion air.

Lots of white steam coming from the stack which looks like smoke. I believe it is hard to tell sometimes and not sure how the clean burning cops can do it.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeehaw.... 17 degrees this morning.

We've got a couple of those coming over the next few nights, but that's a bit unusual out there on the coast, isn't it?

 

[begreen]

Yeehaw.... 17 degrees this morning. We get to the teens every year and sometimes single digits and have to really load up the BK for some btus.

That's chilly! We got down to 30º. It's amazing what a big heat sink of water will do for local temps.

 

[Highbeam]

We've got a couple of those coming over the next few nights, but that's a bit unusual out there on the coast, isn't it?

I'm up in the foothills of Mt. Rainier about 750 feet above sea level. We're not usually this cold but every year we get few little stints in the teens or lower. Unfortunately it is usually caused by a high pressure system that also causes pollution levels to rise in Tacoma and since I am in the same county as Tacoma I am told to stop burning when it's most needed.

 

[Shayne]

Yeehaw.... 17 degrees this morning. We get to the teens every year and sometimes single digits and have to really load up the BK for some btus.

Funny how the stat automatically increases the burn rate when it's cold out. It's not just maintaining the stove body temperature, seems the draft strength and room temp factor in too. The stat is pretty magical, mine seems to really move a lot. I can see it open and close by watching the fire flare up and down with added and remove combustion air.

Lots of white steam coming from the stack which looks like smoke. I believe it is hard to tell sometimes and not sure how the clean burning cops can do it.

Come on it appears you can get a bit more wood in there . I have noted this also when it gets colder it burns quicker at the same setting. As you noted baffle may not be the right word for how this stove works.

0 F (-18 c) forecasted low next Wednesday that should test this new stove and clean up the glass a bit.

Regards

 

[volunbeer]

It was 18 degrees here - supposed to drop down to 9 with lots of wind, but it is a few degrees colder than the forecast. Just went out and cut up a 24 inch doug fir I dropped the other day. I did a hot reload before I went out 4 hours ago with 4 medium splits of Fir because the wood was burning quickly (had some pine splits in there). The stove was only about half full, but I forgot to turn the air down before I went out. Just came back in and it is 79 degrees on the main floor. Oops. Guess it won't have to work as hard tonight. Really pleased with how the heat is making it to the upstairs - it is 76 up there. I even got the plow on the Jeep so I am ready to go.

I finally got those "women's" gloves so it is definitely easier to load now when it is blazing.

 

[tarzan]

We do to. Mid to high teens Thursday and Friday night.

The coldest weather so far has been mid 20's around the

It was 18 degrees here - supposed to drop down to 9 with lots of wind, but it is a few degrees colder than the forecast. Just went out and cut up a 24 inch doug fir I dropped the other day. I did a hot reload before I went out 4 hours ago with 4 medium splits of Fir because the wood was burning quickly (had some pine splits in there). The stove was only about half full, but I forgot to turn the air down before I went out. Just came back in and it is 79 degrees on the main floor. Oops. Guess it won't have to work as hard tonight. Really pleased with how the heat is making it to the upstairs - it is 76 up there. I even got the plow on the Jeep so I am ready to go.

I finally got those "women's" gloves so it is definitely easier to load now when it is blazing.

Don't you just love the peace of mind that comes with having a stove that you can forget to turn down and the worse thing that happens is the house gets to warm.

Gotta love the thermostat!

 

[volunbeer]

Yep - so far this beast is making me pretty happy (and warm).

 

[Poindexter]

@Shayne , i agree completly with highbeams post that i liked at the top of this page.

For a hot reload, open the bypass with the lever, turn the tstat to full throttle. come back in two minutes.

Open the door. wrangle the coals around to a flattish layer with the excellent bk tool. stuff the firebox to the absolute gills with fresh wood. shut the door to the point it is only cracked open about half am inch. wait for the fresh wood to catch, 10-30 seconds.

Close and latch loading door. close bypass with lever so cat is re-engaged.

Come back in 30 minutes to adjust tstat from full throttle to whatever.

Warmed up to -15dF today, we have been in a regime of -20s to -30s. my cat hasnt cooled to the inactive mark in over a week. Havent seen -40 yet this year, but january is still weeks away.

 

[Ashful]

Interesting post, Poindexter. I always run five minutes in bypass on a hot reload, to drive out initial moisture, before closing the bypass again. I also don't bother leaving the door cracked, since the new load is usually caught before I even finish loading.

 

[Poindexter]

Interesting post, Poindexter. I always run five minutes in bypass on a hot reload, to drive out initial moisture, before closing the bypass again. I also don't bother leaving the door cracked, since the new loaf is usually caught before I even finish loading.

Do you wait 30 minutes to turn the tstat down? i figure if some steam cleaning of the cat is anticipated...running it on high is going to keep the flue temp up while the majority of the water gets pumped out as vapor.

I am back in practice loading the thing fast enough that i dont have an inferno on my hands with the box half full. once i have a pretty flat bed of coals i lay a layer of splits across the floor, and then a second layer in the gaps right quick. then i can get a third layer in and play tetris with the fourth course not catching on fire while i fiddle with it.

We both know h2o is one of the common products of wood combustion. no way is the cat "allergic" to water.

 

[Poindexter]

I do agree an initial char with the bypass open is a good thing. i think it was @BKVP who spelled it out for me, might have been my local dealer. or both of them.

A fresh split has essentially infinite surface area, lots of fine wood fibers protruding from the surface, its not like we sand them each and every one. when first ignited all those tiny protruding fibers are going to light off quick and dump a bunch of unburnt vocs either up the flue or into the cat.

Once that initial flash burn is done and the now smooth(er) surface is starting to blacken that spike of fuel rich exhaust gas is over.

 

[Poindexter]

I guess if i was collecting a troublesome amount of deposits at the cold end of the exhaust stack i might run in bypass longer on hot reloads.

 

[lsucet]

Well, I turn stat wide open, open bypass wait that everything is glowing red in there and the flue probe start moving. open door slow and start loading . 90% of the time it catch fire fast. i finish load with fire going and smoke but smoke looks for its way out thru the bypass, no smoke into the room at all.

Closed door and bypass cause stat into active zone, let go for 15 -20 minutes, start dial it down to low in 2 or 3 steps, good to go. I noticed that if I closed the bypass after loading the cat temp goes up quicker. still giving those 15 -20 minutes just to burn the creosote in the box. some time less time cause i am burning CEDAR and ALLIGATOR JUNIPER and it catch and char quick cause is dry. I have it for more than two years and was ready to go when i got it from a well known supplier that family members use for years. Doing it this way the cat stay lit for hrs and stove top around 525df to 600df.

 

[Shayne]

@Shayne , i agree completly with highbeams post that i liked at the top of this page.

For a hot reload, open the bypass with the lever, turn the tstat to full throttle. come back in two minutes.

Open the door. wrangle the coals around to a flattish layer with the excellent bk tool. stuff the firebox to the absolute gills with fresh wood. shut the door to the point it is only cracked open about half am inch. wait for the fresh wood to catch, 10-30 seconds.

Close and latch loading door. close bypass with lever so cat is re-engaged.

Come back in 30 minutes to adjust tstat from full throttle to whatever.

Warmed up to -15dF today, we have been in a regime of -20s to -30s. my cat hasnt cooled to the inactive mark in over a week. Havent seen -40 yet this year, but january is still weeks away.

Thanks for the reassurance of what I am doing will not adversely effect the cat. I have pretty much been doing the same as I always have open the bypass and give it a bit more air, wait a few, crack the door slowly, rack the ashes to the front since this is where the air wash is, reload and close bypass. The only diff is I let it rip for 20 to 30 instead of choking it down right away.

We will be in those temp values soon but no where near as long as you we expect. I do work up of the James/Hudson Bay area and know the climate change from here to there, your state I find fascinating and beautiful, would love to visit "in the summer" one year. Look on the bright side at least you have those long bright sunny days now , remember It only gets better after December. I know I enjoy those beautiful fall days in the bush dropping the trees a bit better than the ones burning it.

Regards

 

[Shayne]

I guess if i was collecting a troublesome amount of deposits at the cold end of the exhaust stack i might run in bypass longer on hot reloads.

I look at it as getting every btu you can out of our toils and the second burn is producing more BTU. From my manual.

"RELOADING PROCEDURE (with the catalyst temperature still in the inactive zone) " ............... "

Once loaded, latch the loading door shut and close the bypass door (rotate the bypass handle backwards, on Princes Insert push handle down). Let the fire burn on the HIGH thermostat setting for 20 to 30 minutes OR until the fire is very well established."

It was opening it hot and letting home air rush in that bothered me with this new high tech cat. Vacuum do not shovel to get ever inch of btu you can! Stay cozy guys.

Regards

 

[kennyp2339]

One thing I do notice is when I'm burning in my cruising zone (little if any flame, active cat) my flue gas temps generally range between 200 and 250 deg (I know I'm breaking the bk law, single wall black pipe with thermometer up about 15" from stove top)
Now when I do my "high" burn I get flue temps closer to 450deg, now that's prob higher in the pipe so I can have the ability to send heat up there if needed.
To the poster that stated they would just run the stove on high with the by-pass opened longer, I have to ask why? what the purpose, you will still send crud up the pipe that will prob cool and condense on the cap making the situation worse, or maybe the thinking is to burn the build up off the top section of chimney (ie chimney fire?) I'm kind of lost with that train of thought, just make sure the cap is cleared, do reg chimney cleaning (I do mine twice a year) and burn dry wood.