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30% of gas wasted - like one million new cars on the road...

Post in 'The Green Room' started by webbie, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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  2. Frozen Canuck

    Frozen Canuck Minister of Fire

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    Happens all the time virtually everywhere unfortunately.

    I have lost track of the number of flare stacks burning in the fields here. One would think (hope) that we knew better by now. <>

    Bottom line the gas is in the way of the oil & too cheap to justify pipelines (so I am told).

    But yeah I get your point if we are just going to burn the stuff why not burn it to crack the oil. Seems such a waste.
  3. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    Flew over the persian gulf at night a couple years ago, flares as far as the eye could see, Saudi, Iran, over the water....

    I guess it takes a lot of pipe to bring it to market. Heck, the gas main ends 15' from my driveway, and the gas co won't hook me up.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    But at the same time every refinery in the country has some environmental group's cameras pointed at the flare 24/7. And any unit upset that requires ANY flaring at all, even ten seconds, requires filing a ream of reports.

    Go figure.
  5. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    When I lived in center city Philly years ago, I could see a big flare going more more less constantly on the horizon at night, at the refinery at the edge of town. Added a certain je ne sais quoi to the city's ambiance.

    No one complained about the cheap gasoline, though.

    Of course, in Boston, no flares in sight, they just leak all the nat gas out their ancient and poorly repaired pipe network underground. ;lol
    btuser likes this.
  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Pretty much what was happening with crude and finished product over in Paulsboro for a century until they moved the pipes above ground.
  7. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    Despite being an enviro myself, I really don't get the sense of blocking the construction of pipelines. Now all that chit is just rolling on railcars instead, or getting flared on site. Unintended consequences, people!
    Frozen Canuck likes this.
  8. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    It's true. It's a symbolic thing.....but perhaps the wrong one.....

    If nothing else, it's bringing certain things to the attention of the public. Realistically, it would be better to come up with a carbon tax and perhaps a higher one based on how the particular fuel is harvested (tar sands have an extra 20% or more of energy required to harvest)....

    On one hand it's nice to have all this energy and be the world's largest producer(s). On the other, the fact that we are not stricter about the way we harvest and use it seems foolish.
  9. Frozen Canuck

    Frozen Canuck Minister of Fire

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    Yeah I could never figure that one out either. BIL's tell me about all the paper work they have to fill out for a very temporary upset at Suncor in Fort Mac when they need to flare. Here if one of the flare stacks gets blown out by a big gust of wind someone comes out with a flare gun to re light it. Pronto.
  10. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Natural Gas heat is a monopoly at the local level. Gas supply itself is cheap but the local utility charges out a the wazoo for delivery and metering. And like some posted above,unless their pipes are right on top of you property they wont hook you up without charging you a fortune .Govt needs to break up that monopoly and introduce competition to the delivery end. Also conversion of more autos and trucks would spur more demand for NG and reduce oil consumption. And don let the local gas Co control that too. Even at half the cost of gasoline it appears conversion is still too costly. Or it may be enough refilling stations are available.
  11. Frozen Canuck

    Frozen Canuck Minister of Fire

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    Legislated, or the competition has said no thanks? Or municipality/corporate sector doesn't see how multiple lines ploughed in can work? You own (likely) the lines under your property, who owns the mains & the distribution network?

    Tough one, unless govt wants to own all the infrastructure & rent/lease it to various suppliers.

    Define fortune, I paid just under 6K to get hooked up/ploughed in.

    Energy density issues roughly 4-1 vs gasoline. All car trunks are now fuel cells all pick up trucks can now haul luggage & other small items. Tough one.
  12. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    Around here the amount the GasCo can charge for a branch off of a main is capped at under $1k, including trenching. If the main does not pass your driveway though (that is the rule) then you are not a customer and they charge you $500-$1000 per foot :eek: to extend the main to become one.

    If we decided it was in the national interest to grow the natgas user base, then the Feds could subsidize main extension projects all over. I can believe the $500/ft figure works out for adding 10 feet, given all the planning and setup costs...but if they did a whole street at a time, it would have to be a heckuva lot cheaper.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  13. Frozen Canuck

    Frozen Canuck Minister of Fire

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    So in other words they don't want no new stinking customers!
  14. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    GM has started offering pickups with NG option and just rolled out the new impala with the same option.
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Night time photos of earth show the incredible waste of these flare offs. It is not just here, but around the world. We are an arrogant and wasteful species.
    Frozen Canuck likes this.
  16. Frozen Canuck

    Frozen Canuck Minister of Fire

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    Yes, they just need filling stations. Not saying it's a bad idea or impossible, just that it will take time to develop all the infrastructure needed to service NG vehicles.

    Probably decades.
  17. Where2

    Where2 Member

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    My neighborhood got it's first CNG filling station back in 1993, just two blocks away from my house! It was far ahead of its time, and has since gone the way of so many "ahead of their time" things. The station that had the CNG pump now only sells gasoline and diesel (and only just started selling diesel in the last 15 months).
  18. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    You can set up your own filling station in your garage provided you have NG supply to your home, which most of the countries homes already use for heat and HW. It has an up front cost but depending on your usage would pay off over time.
    woodsmaster likes this.
  19. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

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    I looked into it several years ago and the pump was around $3000 IIRC. Installation was pretty simple.
  20. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Im sure i could do it myself for much less.
  21. btuser

    btuser Minister of Fire

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    If you pump from your own house supply how are you going to pay road taxes? It would make sense for a utility to put in a meter/pump combo for houses.
  22. Bret Chase

    Bret Chase Minister of Fire

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    I've got a 8" high pressure NG main less than 200' from my property... yet I have no interest in getting hooked up.... my only gas usage is my LP stove... serviced by a 20# bottle that I refill once a month... my hot water is "oil".. which gets filled a 5 gal can to a time with either kero or off road diesel... whichever is cheaper.. every other week.... the heat in my house is wood... and my fuel supply for the winter is already stocked....
    Ehouse likes this.

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