67 MPG (US) Ford Focus ECOnetic announced

[Flatbedford]

That would be a perfect power plant for a full size pickup.

 

[begreen]

Yep, gobs of low end diesel torque there.

 

[Flatbedford]

Where I live probably 2/3 or more of the light trucks run by landscapers or Mitsubishi and probably 95% of the smaller delivery vans too. The domestic makers haven't even bothered to compete until a year or so ago when Ford and Navistar started selling these Mexican made trucks.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2009fleetshowroom/2009-LCF.asp
http://www.internationaltrucks.com/Trucks/Trucks/Series/CityStar

 

[Seasoned Oak]

A good solution for those needing a pickup from time to time is a trailer. Saw a guy with a Jetta diesel pulling a trailer full of wood. NO need for a separate low MPG vehicle. A diesel pickup about the size of a ford ranger would sell like hotcakes. OR HOW ABOUT A PLUG IN OF ANY SIZE.

 

[jdemaris]

A good solution for those needing a pickup from time to time is a trailer. Saw a guy with a Jetta diesel pulling a trailer full of wood. NO need for a separate low MPG vehicle. A diesel pickup about the size of a ford ranger would sell like hotcakes. OR HOW ABOUT A PLUG IN OF ANY SIZE.

I've got two Jetta 1.6 diesels and don't regard ever pulling any trailer with wood as a viable option - unless I wanted to burn them up fast. Not even on a down-hill grade. Good little cars with fantastic fuel mileage - but they've got just enough power to pull themselves along with a few people inside. Also just enough drive-train to sustain normal use and just enough brakes for the normal load. I've seen people do many things with over-loaded and/or over-stressed vehicles. You can take a 1/4 or 1/2 ton truck and put 2 tons of wood on it and get along for awhile. Doing it a few times is one thing and having the vehicle last is another.

As to small diesel pickups? There have many very good ones sold in the USA since the 80s and none ever sold well. And that was at a time when diesel fuel was substantially cheaper then regular gasoline, instead of 40 cents more per gallon. IH Scout diesel, Ford Ranger diesel, Chevy and GMC S10/S15 diesels, Chevy LUV diesel, Isuzu PUP diesel, Toyota and Nissan mini-pickup diesels, Dodge mini-Ram diesels, Volkswagen Rabbit pickups, etc. A few years ago, Jeep released a diesel SUV version again - and sales were terrible. Not quite a truck, but it DID have a small engine instead of a large V8.

 

[jdemaris]

I should qualify my previous statement, our Rangers were gasoline vehicles and I was referring to the gas Toyota pickups which are as common as trees out here. Point being, there is a huge market for lower horsepower trucks. It just seemed that somewhere around 2000 marketing decided that trucks needed to be bigger, brawnier and more macho. I have to laugh because one day I was watching a poor sod loading his new Ford pickup with the tailgate like 4ft off the ground. I do half the lifting for the same load.

I'm sure there's a time-lag, but the types of vehicles produced are a response to what comsumers tend to buy. There are still four-cylinder gas trucks made every year, but they aren't common. Much easier to find a small truck with a V6 and loaded with gobs of options. Even the used car dealers do not want to take in four-cylinder, utilitarian trucks on trade - or buy for resale at auction.

One of best small trucks I ever owned in my life was an 85 Toyota 2WD with a 2.4 four-cylinder engine, fours-speed manual trans, manual trans. roll-up windows, etc. Got a best around 31 MPG which is pretty impressive for a non-overdrive mini-truck with a carburetor. I later had a 98 Ford Ranger 2WD with the 2.5 four-cylinder engine and 5 speed manual with over-drive and electronic fuel injection, OBII, etc. It got a substantially less then my older Toyota - around 25-26 at best. Not what I'm going to call a major leap in usefullness.

I'm curious to see how the new ones do. My in-laws traded in their 2001 AWD Ford Escape with the 3 liter V6 that got a best of 24 MPG. They now have a 2011 Escape AWD with the 2.5 four-banger and it's getting near 30 MPG which is much better. Seems it should do even better in a Ranger 2WD pickup. But Ford doesn't offer that engine in the Ranger.

 

[jdemaris]

How about one of these with a Ford/Dodge/Chevy full size cab on it?
http://www.mitfuso.com/en-US/Models/FG4X4
4x4, 7k payload, 4cyl diesel.

I've used the Fuso trucks on the highways here in hilly NY. Not the newest ones but I doubt there's much difference. With a moderate load they get 17-20 MPG which is pretty impressive. I also know of several full size pickup trucks with those engines transplanted. Reports are around 23-26 MPG for best highway mileage. Not sure it's worth the expense of buidling one now though since diesel is often 40 cents more per gallon then regular gasoline. A gas pickup truck that gets 21 MPG is just as cheap to drive as a diesel that gets 24 MPG. Considering the extra expense of building or buying such a diesel truck - seems the potential savings aren't there any more.

Now, if they come out with a 1/2 ton pickup that gets 35 MPG or better, and diesel fuel doesn't get jacked way above gasoline - then I'd see a nice advantage.

Chevy/GM was also working on a small diesel-engine that runs on gasoline instead of diesel fuel. Not sure where that is at. The word "diesel" here meaning a compression-ignition engine.

 

[maverick06]

my vw jetta diesel has 157,000 miles and still gets 50-53mpg. Thats hard to argue!

 

[jdemaris]

my vw jetta diesel has 157,000 miles and still gets 50-53mpg. Thats hard to argue!

I've got a pair of 91 four-door 1.6 diesel Jettas. Both with manual trans and both have over 200K. Back before the energy content got lowered in the new low-sulfur diesel -I could get around 51 MPG at best on a flat highway and no wind against me. My 81 diesel four-door Chevette with the 1.8 diesel a little lower at 47 MPG.

Haven't done any testing with the "new" diesel with 5% less BTUs per gallon and priced at 40 cents more then regulaor gas.

All have been great cars. Both the Volkswagens though have always run hot. Never boiled over, but the needle is always toward the "very hot" zone. I tried to buy new radiators a while back and could not get one. Only ones available were for non-AC diesel Jettas. I got one and it won't fit. Totally different top hose-neck. Since they've been running hot for over 10 years, I'll keep using as they are.

 

[begreen]

OR HOW ABOUT A PLUG IN OF ANY SIZE.

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

AWD, SUT (sport utility truck). (Though I like to think of it as a sporty-looking utility truck. )

-- Unfortunately they went bankrupt, but it is a nice idea.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

OR HOW ABOUT A PLUG IN OF ANY SIZE.

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

AWD, SUT (sport utility truck). (Though I like to think of it as a sporty-looking utility truck. )

-- Unfortunately they went bankrupt, but it is a nice idea.

Iv known about these for some time. THey were like $50000 if im not mistaken, kind of small for that kind of dough. Id much rather convert my existing GM HD 2500 EX long box. Raser tech the company that builds the electric hummer has the best thing going today IMO.
THey convert hummers and full sized pickups with a 200HP electric motor and 40 mile range. THats something i can see myself driving in the near future. ALthough i think they only convert new trucks at this time. ID be willing to drop say $15,000 to convert my truck.

 

[jdemaris]

THey convert hummers and full sized pickups with a 200HP electric motor and 40 mile range. THats something i can see myself driving in the near future. ALthough i think they only convert new trucks at this time. ID be willing to drop say $15,000 to convert my truck.

Mabye I'm missing something. In the USA, where's the electricity supposed to come from? More coal burning? At present, a electric vehicle in the USA is apt to just be a indirect coal-burning machine.

In many parts of Canada, there's a lot of "hydro" electric power availabe. That tentatively makes more sense for electric vehicles but . . . I'm not sure if Canada has a lot excess. Some of it gets sold to the USA.

I've yet to see a workable plan - even on the drawing board - for making much more electric power in USA so we can run cars, trucks, and trains with it. As it stands now - we barely make enough to meet demand and most is from coal burning, along with old tires and waste motor oil thrown into the fire. We're going to have problems meeting electric demand as it is - without huge fleets of electric vehicles. And when coal gets tougher to get? Or Al Gore mangages to outlaw its use? I suspect many who thought nuclear was the answer are know thinking twice about it. I'm not saying there isn't an answer to be found - but it certainly hasn't been discovered or invented yet. Pushing electric vehicles now is putting the "horse before the cart" to the extreme.

 

[begreen]

Ironically, in the PacNW they are looking at tethering major wind farms out here because of a surplus of hydro due to an anticipate large spring snowmelt. This is why we need the smart grid.

 

[mayhem]

.unfortunately much of our national perception of deisels is based on the horrible GM gas-deisel converted cars from the late 70's. They don't sounds like dump trucks anymore, nor do they spew massive clouds of black soot everywhere.

.

Well they(GM)really vindicated themselves with the Duramax diesel 6.6 They been putting in HD pickup trucks since 2001.
Those babies are bulletproof , have 2 in the family. First diesel i ever saw that could squeal the tires. Ford and Dodge have been playin catch up ever since. Amazing MPG as well low 20s on the Hwy for a 6500LB truck empty. 3970HP 765 Ftlbs torque.
Engine can be dialed up to 600 HP quite easily with a simple Mod although you may void the warranty.
They also have a little brother the 4.5 Duramax waiting in the wings. was about to launch it for light duty suberban ,van, 1/2 ton PU ect when the bottom fell out on the truck market in 08. I hear they can do mid-high 20s MPG

I agree the newer deisels are great motors, but the problem is they're stuck in HD or heavier trucks. While they do sell alot of those, the sales volume pales in comparison to a basic family car...or even a half ton truck. When they screwed up the image of the deisel in the 70's, they were stuffing them under the hoods of station wagons and large sedans like Impalas or Caprices. We need small, quiet, sootless, moderm 4 cylinder turbo-deisels in mainstream family cars like the Impala or 3 cylinder turbos in commuter cars like the Cobalt.

BMW, to their credit, is marketing their 3 series deisel pretty heavily and by all reports its a great car. Love to try one out.

 

[Highbeam]

"We need small, quiet, sootless, moderm 4 cylinder turbo-deisels in mainstream family cars like the Impala or 3 cylinder turbos in commuter cars like the Cobalt."

You can have that if you aren't an american.

Since you do live here, a Volkswagen TDI is very available and maybe the BMW will be good but likely very expensive. I don't drive a BMW becuase even the gas cars are very expensive. The VW diesel option has been available for quite sometime and even mercedes has had diesels in its modern fleet.

Bottom line is that the diesel technology exists, is used in other countries in the SAME vehicles, but is somehow prevented from appearing on US soil.

 

[maverick06]

but the needle is always toward the "very hot" zone.

Sounds like the thermostat is bad.... could be the temp sensor... or a radiator.... but probably the thermostat.


The diesel selection here in the us is highly limited as so few people will buy diesels (for whatever the reason is) that the auto companies do not wish to spend the money to get the engine approved for US use. The US, EPA, clean diesel requirements are more stringent than most other countries, further making it trouble.

I drive a JW Jetta TDI... its a big 4 door car, I am the only person EVER in it. i would like a smaller diesel. This has 157k miles and still gets 50 mpg.... Diesel is pretty awesome. I am always looking for the next car and cant find anything else.

Too bay my wife doesnt drive a manual transmission and has no interest to learn it.

 

[charly]

but the needle is always toward the "very hot" zone.

Sounds like the thermostat is bad.... could be the temp sensor... or a radiator.... but probably the thermostat.


The diesel selection here in the us is highly limited as so few people will buy diesels (for whatever the reason is) that the auto companies do not wish to spend the money to get the engine approved for US use. The US, EPA, clean diesel requirements are more stringent than most other countries, further making it trouble.

I drive a JW Jetta TDI... its a big 4 door car, I am the only person EVER in it. i would like a smaller diesel. This has 157k miles and still gets 50 mpg.... Diesel is pretty awesome. I am always looking for the next car and cant find anything else.

Too bay my wife doesnt drive a manual transmission and has no interest to learn it.

Wife has a 98 diesel beetle, an honest 42 mpg overall . 13 years old, with 160,000 miles and still runs great. Had Amsoil since about 30,000 miles. I have to laugh about the fuel mileage I see on some so called fuel efficient SUVS, 20 MPG. My 1 ton standard transmission 2004 dodge cummins diesel get's 22 mpg! I agree about installing more small diesels in cars. I always thought a 4 cyl cummins in a Jeep Wrangler would be a hot selling vehicle that I would expect to get at least 30 mpg . That would be nice fuel mileage for a four wheel drive vehicle. I bet people would be lined up for them.

 

[Jags]

I always thought a 4 cyl cummins in a Jeep Wrangler would be a hot selling vehicle that I would expect to get at least 30 mpg . That would be nice fuel milegae for a four wheel drive vehicle. I bet people would be lined up for them.

Make it a Grand Cherokee and consider it "SOLD".

 

[charly]

I always thought a 4 cyl cummins in a Jeep Wrangler would be a hot selling vehicle that I would expect to get at least 30 mpg . That would be nice fuel milegae for a four wheel drive vehicle. I bet people would be lined up for them.

Make it a Grand Cherokee and consider it "SOLD".

I can't believe how many people would love to see more diesel vehicles and nothing is offered. Subaru was going to have a slick diesel but emission's squashed that. It was going to need to run a Urea tank and Subaru thought that consumers would not go the expense.

 

[Jags]

I always thought a 4 cyl cummins in a Jeep Wrangler would be a hot selling vehicle that I would expect to get at least 30 mpg . That would be nice fuel milegae for a four wheel drive vehicle. I bet people would be lined up for them.

Make it a Grand Cherokee and consider it "SOLD".

I can't believe how many people would love to see more diesel vehicles and nothing is offered. Subaru was going to have a slick diesel but emission's squashed that. It was going to need to run a Urea tank and Subaru thought that consumers would not go the expense.

And they were probably correct. It is our own darn fault. The emission standards that we use are silly. Not because they have strict rules, but because of the way they are measured. It shouldn't be measured per gallon. It should be measured per mile, albeit with a very strict and regulated measurement method that tells the whole truth.

 

[Exmasonite]

Another satisfied Jetta TDI ('09 sportwagen) owner here just banging his head against the wall about the lack of diesel options here in the states.

 

[lukem]

I still can't wrap my head around why diesel isn't catching on like wildfire in this country. I would be the first in line for a diesel half ton pickup. The problem is it is just way too damned expensive. If you do a build/price for a diesel pickup its about an $8k option. Doesn't make financial sense.

Some people are taking matters into their own hands and building their own. I've seen where people are putting 4BT's into half ton pickups and getting mid-20's.

There are some immortal diesel engines out there that will practically last forever and get good mileage while doing it. I have a couple friends who are diesel mechanics. The shop they work at does everythng from TDIs to tractors to you're average Duramax pickup. They specialize in building high performance racing/pulling engines (this one for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUY0-LnZRQ ). To illustrate my earlier point about diesel longevity, most top fuel dragsters get a complete engine rebuild after every run. This one gets rebuild after every SEASON. Now this isn't as fast as top fuel, but it ain't slow either. That's pretty much a stock 5.9 bottom end with some goodies on the top end. Needless to say it takes some abuse.

A lot of the problem, in my opinion anyway, is mis-understanding about HP ratings by the average consumer. A half ton diesel truck would (if done right) would have about 180 HP and 360 lb/ft of torque. My F-150 has 292HP and about 320 lb/ft. Looks like the diesel is underpowered, right? Most people say more HP is better. In reality the diesel would take my truck to school when it comes to towing...and get close to double the loaded mileage while doing it. But hey, we Americans loves us some HP.

 

[Flatbedford]

In a truck HP is not nearly as important as torque.

On the 4BT there is a guy out in Washington state who put one in a '70 F250 with a 5 speed transmission. He claims as much as 30 mpg and says it will easily tow 10,000 lbs over mountains.

 

[charly]

In a truck HP is not nearly as important as torque.

On the 4BT there is a guy out in Washington state who put one in a '70 F250 with a 5 speed transmission. He claims as much as 30 mpg and says it will easily tow 10,000 lbs over mountains.

It's ashame, we could have some really nice diesel vehicles here in the US .

 

[Highbeam]

In a truck HP is not nearly as important as torque.

On the 4BT there is a guy out in Washington state who put one in a '70 F250 with a 5 speed transmission. He claims as much as 30 mpg and says it will easily tow 10,000 lbs over mountains.

Do you have a project link or something? Would love to read and see how the install went. Not that I would want to tow 10,000 with a 40 year old F250 but the 30 mpg part is refreshing and cummins engines make excellent swap candidates. Oddly, the little 4 cylinder 4bt cummins is more expensive to source than the bigger 6 cyclinder that was used in Dodge trucks.