Abandoned by Jotul

[PMichalow]

I've heard of planned obsolecence, but this is ridiculous! I bout a Jotul 3 Classic Direct vent gas stove in Dec. 1997 and had no problems with it until recently. A storm blew down my chimney late last spring (the stove vented through the roof) and the wrong piping was installed by a "chimney expert '". When I tried to use my stove this winter, the flame kept going out on its own. After 2 more misdiagnoses, a third company noticed that the wrong type of piping had been installed and on Monday they came to install the correct pipe and chimney. As they were doing this, theyt found that the part that connected the stove to the pipe that goes through the roof had corroded to a point beyond repair, rendering the stove unusable. After contacting a Jotul dealer, we determined the part was likely what Jotul called a 3 DV collar (Jotul has no illustrations or information in the manual that I have, and even the dealer did not have a picture of the part. ) When the dealer contacted Jotul (because of course, Jotul makes it impossible for a consumer to do so!) he was told that they no longer manufacture the stove and have do not have the part for it. They suggested I contact Woodman's, which I did. Woodman's was also told by Jotul that Jotul would not supply a part, and although they called around trying to locate it from other sources, they were unable to.

So I am now in the position, after having spent over $2000.00 (for the botched piping and for the correct piping) of haveing a useless hunk of metal that is only 13 years old because a manufacturer decides 13 years is too long to support a product like a gas stove???![/color]. I'm not even counting the original cost of the stove and installation.

Please, do any of you have any suggestions for me? I wish I could affort to take out a full page ad telling people not to buy Jotul stoves[/size]!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

it might be a common dv connector, can you post a picture?

 

[jotulguy]

That part was made by Simpson Duravent. I am pretty sure the stove has not been in production for over 10 years now. Maybe you could use the part number #3902599 and see if your dealer can contact Simpson and see if they have it available.

 

[PMichalow]

Who is Simpson Duravent? I've tried to attach the photos we took during the repair. Looks like simple metal and pipe to me, but what do I know?

 

[webbie]

Simpson Duravent is the company that makes the direct vent pipe - or, more accurately, made most of it way back when. Various companies make it now, and many makers even make their own.

In terms of kicking ass, what did you do to the people who installed the entire wrong pipe??? The probably had something to do with making this part fail.

Which part is actually bad and what is wrong with it?
It does not look like you would have much problem getting something made up....or possibly finding another stove DV adapter that worked.

I think you will still be in business here after a little chase......again, can you tell us which part is bad? Is it that stainless ring on your hearth?
I have a circle shear!

 

[webbie]

Try a PM here to stoveguy13
(that's a private message) - see box at top of page.
He has a big warehouse and sometimes has old parts sitting around.......

 

[PMichalow]

I wish I knew what the part was called! The serviceman who did the work said maybe it was called a flue collar, and the Jotul dealer I spoke to thinks Jotul had it listed as a "3 DV collar, inner/outer", and it had a gasket attached to it. It's basically a 4 inch diameter metal tube attached to a 6 inch collar. So far everyone I've spoken to has said they don't know what to suggest to me (short of selling me a new stove!). I'll try the PM you suggested to stoveguy13. Thanks so much for your help.

Oh, and the guy who installed the incorrect piping is a lost cause. It's a very long story, but I know his wife and there is a truckload of family and financial problems and I know there's not going to be any remedy coming from that direction.

 

[webbie]

For my own continuing education.....

Most stoves like this use the same pipe from the stove to the top of the chimney!
That is, most direct vent pipe is the same other than the fact that the interior pipe is black on the outside and the exterior stuff is galv.

You mentioned that this is at the ceiling or roof level....

So, to be clear - is this part attached to the stove? Or is there one type of pipe coming from the stove - which then attaches to the ceiling or roof pipe using this adapter (up there)?

I'm going to glance at some Simpson current manuals to see what goes.

Are there big holes in that pipe which render it not usuable or easily repairable (rivets and sheet aluminum and silicone)?....I can't see by the pic, it's too small.

 

[PMichalow]

The part was attached to the stove. I don't know what that stainless steel-looking ring was because I don't have it. I think it may have been the serviceman's attempt at fabricating a fix. I have 2 pieces: a sheet of metal riveted into a tube that is 4 inches in diameter. The tube fit onto a collar of 1 inch wide metal that was 4 inches on the inside and 6 inches on the outside. The collar had holes drilled into it. You can't seee it in the picture, but one piece of the collar is completely gone. To me the whole thing looks like a top hot. In the second picture, the serviceman is pointing to the part in its place (i.e. the top hat is laying horizontally with the top of the hat pointing to the firebox of the stove and the brim of the hat is the part you see covered by a white gasket.

I don't know if this is making any sense, but it's not easy describing this in words, especially for a non-mechanically minded person

 

[webbie]

OK, at least I have a better picture - as I imagined, it was attached to the stove to make it compatible with the Dura-Vent DV pipe.

Many stoves use such a part - or various restrictors, etc.

I was confused by the first post where it said "part that connected the stove to the pipe that goes through the roof"....this is better described as a "pipe or appliance adapter" which connects the stove to the DV pipe (which is then the same stuff basically as it goes through the room, through the roof and through the ceiling).....

Just so you get a bit more of the mechanical picture, all of this pipe has two walls, the inner wall being 4" and the outer one being 6 5/8" (I think)....
The function is as follows.
The inner pipe takes the exhaust from the gas fire in the firebox - and of course vents it up though the roof.
The outer pipe is AIR SUPPLY to the stove - in other words, it bring air from the outside (top of your chimney) and then allows it to go around an inner wall inside the stove and then under the gas fire to feed it.

Does that make sense?

DV stoves rely on a balance of incoming and outgoing air to work correctly - which is why that fella who put in the wrong pipe messed things up! It needs to breathe air in correctly in order to expel it correctly!

See enclosed - even though it is a fireplace (vanguard) and vents out the wall, the theory is the same. The outer wall brings the air in and the inner wall the exhaust out.

A lot of stoves use some kind of a starter adapter like yours....as an example, here is one for a Napoleon stove:
http://www.woodstoves-fireplaces.com/shop/item/218-productId.570438239_218-catId..html

Now, I know that does not do you much good - but it always helps to at least understand the basics of what you are dealing with. This is not a complicated part, but the replacement - whether fabricated or found - must meet up with the basic dimensions of the original. Maybe if all else fails, Duravent or Jotul can find you a drawing....it must exist somewhere, and then it might be able to be made by modifying an existing Dura adapter or piece, or rebuilding the old one.

Fingers crossed....I will ask around.....

 

[PMichalow]

Thanks so much for your explanation, Craig, it does make sense. What doesnt make sense to me is the problems I seem to be having finding knowledgable people I just got off the phone with the only other Jotul dealer in this area who told me "I don't know what to tell you...If Jotul doesn't make the part anymore there must have been something wrong with it...the only thing you can do is BUY A NEW UNIT'

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

like i thought, a basic duravent starter...

if you cant find one elsewhere..here is the inner and outer collar the inner collar is 4" id, and is 4" long...

http://woodheatstoves.com/4-x-658-sdv-rear-starterstgonly-p-15786.html
might need to drill new holes, and you'll need some lytherm gasket to seal it.

 

[webbie]

Jotul probably never made the part - Simpson Duravent was likely trying to drum up as much business as possible so was offering to make up adapters for makes who would standardize on their pipe sizes, etc.

As to knowledgeable dealers, usually few and far between. You have to have either a good background or a couple of decades in the biz...
Some do exist....and the others have to say something, so the response you got is not a rare one......

Heading a little further down "mechanical lane".......the pic where the guy is sticking his finger into the back of the stove - is that a hollow? What I am saying is if he bent that finger down, would there be about a 1" space there, between the back of the round collar his hand rests on and the gasketed small hole that he is pointing to?

If so, the part in question could be as simple as this - a piece of Simpson pipe in which the inner 4" pipe extends further than the outer one! That would allow the outer pipe to dump the incoming air into that hollow, while the inner pipe fastens tightly against the stove exhaust (4").


Note the enclosed pic from the current Duravent catalog - this is for another brand, but still illustrates my point - notice how the inner pipe sticks down further from the outer pipe.

I think making phonecalls locally should not be the first order of business.
You might be better off emailing Simpson Duravent with all the information (including the old stock number above) - as well as waiting a day or two to see if any of the other efforts here yield any leads.

I will chase down a lead myself a little later.......

Damn, from afar, this vermont castings adapter looks very similar to something which might do the job....if, as I suspect, you have that hollow there.

 

[webbie]

Thanks so much for your explanation, Craig, it does make sense. What doesnt make sense to me is the problems I seem to be having finding knowledgable people I just got off the phone with the only other Jotul dealer in this area who told me "I don't know what to tell you...If Jotul doesn't make the part anymore there must have been something wrong with it...the only thing you can do is BUY A NEW UNIT'

Just to add a little regional humor - hey, you live on Long Island! I'm surprised they didn't tell you to buy a new house...and then a couple stoves to put in there - as your ONLY possible solution....

(inside joke, maybe)......
:lol:

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Craig, the pictured item wont allow for a clean outer connection...

 

[Fsappo]

Thanks so much for your explanation, Craig, it does make sense. What doesnt make sense to me is the problems I seem to be having finding knowledgable people I just got off the phone with the only other Jotul dealer in this area who told me "I don't know what to tell you...If Jotul doesn't make the part anymore there must have been something wrong with it...the only thing you can do is BUY A NEW UNIT'

Just to add a little regional humor - hey, you live on Long Island! I'm surprised they didn't tell you to buy a new house...and then a couple stoves to put in there - as your ONLY possible solution....

(inside joke, maybe)......
:lol:

Lay off the Long Islanders you hippy

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/SantaFe8761Manual.pdf

see page 9 of the book, uses the same simpson dv connector...

 

[webbie]

Sure does look like the part - or very similar.

I knew someone would know more!

 

[PMichalow]

Wow, that last illustration does kind of look like the part! I'm not sure if there was a 'hollow' between the pipes in that second picture because I didn't see it with my own eyes. The serviceman took the picture. The diagram of the hearthstone stove that was posted does look awfully similar,tho', so maybe it is a Simpson dv connection. I think I understand what you mean-this adaptor connects the 4 inch inner part of the double walled vent pipe to the stove and fits inside the 6 inch pipe.
I tried calling the boss of the guy who was here this week, as I was told that he was more knowledgeable, but everyone was out sick today. (We were also expecting another snowstorm ). So I'm going to have to pursue this after the weekend. I'm hoping that if I can show him the responses I've gotten from you guys he will be able to figure it out . The one thing I know for sure is I'm not buying another Jotul stove (or a second house to put it in)!

Stay warn!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

its possible i have just the inner collar kicking it around here, i'll take a look soon.

 

[webbie]

I've got some others working on this...I think something will be dug up.

Although 1997 seems recent to me (I'm an old guy), almost no one who works at Jotul started before about 2000 or so. It is therefore tough to find the old salts who instantly know everything...and all the newer units for a long time have been designed so that the pipe fits right into them.

In the realm of Direct Vent gas stoves, 1997 was toward the beginning of the popularity, and it had only been a few years since any of them started standardizing on the Duravent pipe - before that, they often just came with a little custom kit which went out through the wall.

I've run into this "time marches on" thing myself.....recently when I tried to get in contact with a company (in China, in this case) who made some products and tooling for me a couple years ago. Turns out that in China, here one day and gone the next is pretty common...or, more likely, where a small business and backyard foundry existed 5 years ago, a modern plant with 10,000 employees exists today......

I think Dave has the part for you. Another way of confirming would be to have that installer guy (the smart one) take some measurements of the old part and of the stove holes.....and then PM Dave with them. In the meanwhile, maybe one of our leads will be able to run down the original spec to make doubly sure. In a perfect world, Dura-vent or Jotul would type that number into their computers and it would spit out the old drawing...but computers have been upgraded too many times since!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

nope, none kicking it around here...
you can order one using the link i posted earlier, but it will come with the outer painted collar as well(which you dont need) and ships direct from hearhtstone(they are slow to ship at this time of year...)