Accentra, another ignitor bites the dust.

[Amaralluis]

I had my Accentra installed at the end of feb in 2006.

Since then I have replaced 7 ignitors and today it died.
My kill-a-watt reader shows 133W starting the stove instead of the usual 410W with the feeder on.
Yesterday it started fine and today its dead.
I am calling the dealer tomorrow to have it replaced again and probably have a discussion about warranty. They have replaced all of them so far at no charge but I dont expect them to keep doing it but I feel I shouldnt be paying for it either.

My frustration is that I dont know what causes these deaths. Back in 2007 I know there was a bad batch of ignitors, but that was almost three years ago, would I be so unlucky to keep getting bad ones?
I dont know what else to do to fix the problem if there is a problem and stop using the automatic ignition is not a solution for me. I bought the stove because of it. I cant use the stove using all its features then whats the point of having it?

I have it plugged into a UPS battery that also protects for surges, I use the temp dial everyday to turn it up and turn it down.
I scrape the burn pot every few days to remove the carbon and do a throughly clean when the ash pan is full.

What can the dealer do to troubleshoot this? What has Harman do to fix this? I need answers, I am frustrated with this stove and with Harman. I thought I was buying a top quality product and paid the premium for it and it keeps me giving headaches.

Rant off.

 

[summit]

Ignitor life depends on a couple factors with Harmans, due to the placement of it in the pot.
1. ashes build up under the pot, and you must clean this area on a regular basis... don't wait till it has problems igniting till you clean it, or even let a half full area lay there. scrape the pot to keep carbon outta the holes... and (although it is a rare issue) check your air intake flap for proper operation.. If it is not allowing sufficient airflow, then it will take long times to ignite, or not, and chew up your ignitor.
2. don't use it like an oil or gas furnace when you are running it all the time, any way. leave it on.. When you have it set up to heat the house in winter vs your central heat, leave the ignitor switch on manual, or set it to stove temp. Auto Room temp is for shoulder season. zapping that 305 watt thing on a dozen times a day in winter will shorten its life.

 

[Amaralluis]

Ignitor life depends on a couple factors with Harmans, due to the placement of it in the pot.
1. ashes build up under the pot, and you must clean this area on a regular basis... don't wait till it has problems igniting till you clean it, or even let a half full area lay there. scrape the pot to keep carbon outta the holes... and (although it is a rare issue) check your air intake flap for proper operation.. If it is not allowing sufficient airflow, then it will take long times to ignite, or not, and chew up your ignitor.

I clean the pot several times a week.
I also clean under the pot often, although I've never seen any build up of ashes in it.
Cant see anything blocking the air flap.

2. don't use it like an oil or gas furnace when you are running it all the time, any way. leave it on.. When you have it set up to heat the house in winter vs your central heat, leave the ignitor switch on manual, or set it to stove temp. Auto Room temp is for shoulder season. zapping that 305 watt thing on a dozen times a day in winter will shorten its life.

I would agree with you if it is true that it would be turning on several times a day. Thats not the case, it only turns on at most only a couple times a day.
This last ignitor was replaced at the end of spring in 09 and it is dead already. It is not normal I think.
Someone mentioned that the new ignitors have the wire stripped, the ignitor in the stove has what looks some kind of fabric covering them, could it be that it is still one of the bad batch one?

Imo there is a huge design flaw with the Harman stoves with the ignitors. They fail all the time and very quickly. I dont see people complaining much about ignitors for the other brands.
I dont know why Harman can continue doing this and make a recall and come up with a permanent fix?
Imagine what would happen if a car manufacturer made a car that would require replacing the battery frequently and within a short period of time!
Imagine what would happen if people were told that it is normal for the battery to go bad and to push the car instead so to not use it as much to increase its life?

If I wanted a manual stove I would've paid for one, instead I paid for a very expensive Harman with automatic ignition.


Anyway,I'm sorry I am ranting again.
Any ideas what might be causing the premature death?
I remember reading about control boards going bad and keeping the ignitor on all the time, but my kill-a-watt indicates that when the Ignit led goes off it drops from the 400W to 130W or so, which afaik the ignitor was turned off??

 

[sparkydog00]

I have the same stove in about the same vintage....it still has its original ignitor.
When you do your cleaning and you take the plate off the bottom of the burn pot...do you use your ash vac to suck up all the ash inside there?
Also check to make sure you aren't somehow nicking the ignitor wires ....
The burnpot should be scraped several times a day....these stoves have a tendency to pile up clinkers in the bottom corners of the burnpot...so maybe several times a day is a bit much...but at least everyday.
When you do a clean out...do you really get in there and scrape the burnpot?
I realize I am a cleaning nazi...but it beats repairing the thing all the time.

 

[Amaralluis]

I have the same stove in about the same vintage....it still has its original ignitor.
When you do your cleaning and you take the plate off the bottom of the burn pot...do you use your ash vac to suck up all the ash inside there?
Also check to make sure you aren't somehow nicking the ignitor wires ....
The burnpot should be scraped several times a day....these stoves have a tendency to pile up clinkers in the bottom corners of the burnpot...so maybe several times a day is a bit much...but at least everyday.
When you do a clean out...do you really get in there and scrape the burnpot?
I realize I am a cleaning nazi...but it beats repairing the thing all the time.

I dont use a vacuum, and like I said there was never any buildup under the pot. Everytime I cleaned I always tapped the ignitor to make sure any ash in it would fall off.
I took it out today and it looked very clean.
There is obviously a problem somewhere. You still have the original ignitor, I am on my seventh. Cleaning the burnpot everyday cannot be the sole reason for such level of failure??

 

[Lousyweather]

I have the same stove in about the same vintage....it still has its original ignitor.
When you do your cleaning and you take the plate off the bottom of the burn pot...do you use your ash vac to suck up all the ash inside there?
Also check to make sure you aren't somehow nicking the ignitor wires ....
The burnpot should be scraped several times a day....these stoves have a tendency to pile up clinkers in the bottom corners of the burnpot...so maybe several times a day is a bit much...but at least everyday.
When you do a clean out...do you really get in there and scrape the burnpot?
I realize I am a cleaning nazi...but it beats repairing the thing all the time.

I dont use a vacuum, and like I said there was never any buildup under the pot. Everytime I cleaned I always tapped the ignitor to make sure any ash in it would fall off.
I took it out today and it looked very clean.
There is obviously a problem somewhere. You still have the original ignitor, I am on my seventh. Cleaning the burnpot everyday cannot be the sole reason for such level of failure??

the newest ignitors draw 306 watts, and have about 2" of plasticy-looking material on the wires near the ignitor. We have been lucky and not had to replace (yet), any of the new ignitors....as for your seventh, I dont know what to tell you. I do find it extremely weird that Sparky's is fine, never having one replaced and yours is on your seventh....Ive never seen seven replacements in one stove.....two or 3, sure, but 7?!

 

[summit]

have you installed the new ignitors, or the service guys? If the cradle is not put back together correctly, and then into the stove correctly the ignitor will fail very quickly.

 

[Amaralluis]

Summit,

The service guys always installed the ignitor.
I called them today and they told me that Harman knows about this and that there was a memo from Harman back in september that said that they were aware of the ignitor problem and that it resulted in the fact that they used a commom ignitor for all the models including the furnace and that the ignitor was originally designed for the furnace. It looks like now theres three kinds of ignitors to be used on different stoves.
Has anyone heard of this before?
With this said they are going to call to set an appt for next week and I assume it will be done at no charge again because its been less than a year and they are aware of ignitor problems.

 

[Souzafone]

We're still on our original, purchased 5 or 6 years ago, and we always run in room mode. I can't imagine why you have so many issues, but I'd be pissed.

 

[Lousyweather]

Summit,

The service guys always installed the ignitor.
I called them today and they told me that Harman knows about this and that there was a memo from Harman back in september that said that they were aware of the ignitor problem and that it resulted in the fact that they used a commom ignitor for all the models including the furnace and that the ignitor was originally designed for the furnace. It looks like now theres three kinds of ignitors to be used on different stoves.
Has anyone heard of this before?
With this said they are going to call to set an appt for next week and I assume it will be done at no charge again because its been less than a year and they are aware of ignitor problems.

far as I know, there are only 2 kinds of igniters....the typical stove one (electric heating element), and the one used in the corn stoves (forced air) and some furnaces...not aware of a 3rd type

 

[summit]

they had 305w, 330 w and now a new 305 w that has 13 fins instead of 10. They are starting to use the corn stove ignitor/airpump system on the boilers, as universal igntr had a high rate of failure in these units.
But the point to which I was getting at; is that the cradle has a little cover that holds the ignitor. That cover has to be put back on so it is level w/ the business egde of the igntr/cradle assy. If it is flipped, the holes for the mounting are slightly off center so it will protrude into the patch of airflow enough to drastically reduce life expectancy.

 

[Lousyweather]

they had 305w, 330 w and now a new 305 w that has 13 fins instead of 10. They are starting to use the corn stove ignitor/airpump system on the boilers, as universal igntr had a high rate of failure in these units.
But the point to which I was getting at; is that the cradle has a little cover that holds the ignitor. That cover has to be put back on so it is level w/ the business egde of the igntr/cradle assy. If it is flipped, the holes for the mounting are slightly off center so it will protrude into the patch of airflow enough to drastically reduce life expectancy.

x2, yes...there was a tech bulletin on that issue too....would reduce life expectancy, could also caused failed ignition, and, delayed ignition (big boom when smoke ignites all of a sudden)...a real eyeopener!

 

[Amaralluis]

they had 305w, 330 w and now a new 305 w that has 13 fins instead of 10. They are starting to use the corn stove ignitor/airpump system on the boilers, as universal igntr had a high rate of failure in these units.
But the point to which I was getting at; is that the cradle has a little cover that holds the ignitor. That cover has to be put back on so it is level w/ the business egde of the igntr/cradle assy. If it is flipped, the holes for the mounting are slightly off center so it will protrude into the patch of airflow enough to drastically reduce life expectancy.

I am not sure that I understand what you are saying... Maybe a picture describing it would help me understand?

 

[sparkydog00]

I have the same stove in about the same vintage....it still has its original ignitor.
When you do your cleaning and you take the plate off the bottom of the burn pot...do you use your ash vac to suck up all the ash inside there?
Also check to make sure you aren't somehow nicking the ignitor wires ....
The burnpot should be scraped several times a day....these stoves have a tendency to pile up clinkers in the bottom corners of the burnpot...so maybe several times a day is a bit much...but at least everyday.
When you do a clean out...do you really get in there and scrape the burnpot?
I realize I am a cleaning nazi...but it beats repairing the thing all the time.

I dont use a vacuum, and like I said there was never any buildup under the pot. Everytime I cleaned I always tapped the ignitor to make sure any ash in it would fall off.
I took it out today and it looked very clean.
There is obviously a problem somewhere. You still have the original ignitor, I am on my seventh. Cleaning the burnpot everyday cannot be the sole reason for such level of failure??

Cleaning the burn pot is the single most important thing you can do to keep the ignitor alive.
When you have a carbon build up in the burn pot...the ignitor has to work longer because it has to heat the clinkers before it gets to the pellets.
With the stove off...and cold...take a cold chisel and scrape the pot until you feel that it is smooth to the touch.
I am sure you will have build up inside the burn pot...
And am sure it is one of the reasons you are seeing so many ignitor deaths.

 

[Amaralluis]

Believe me I do clean the burnpot and even made a tool to make sure the holes in the burnpot are clear.
Build up is not the reason for my problems.

 

[Amaralluis]

Had the tech today to replace the ignitor.

This ignitor is a bit different than the older ones.
For one it has extra protective cover on the wires and it has 15 rings compared to the older ignitors that had 10 I believe.
It seems to use the same wattage as the older ones judging by my kill-a-watt reader.
I've attached a couple pictures of the new ignitor.
Sorry for the blurry picture. It was just to show the fat plate on the igniter cradle is installed correctly.

I've included two pictures of the stove because something peculiar happened when I started the stove and I will have to verify if this was just a fluke or if it happens all the time.

I put the ignitor back in place, scrapped the burnpot nicely and of course the burnpot it was empty when I started the stove.
After it started it started feeding pellets. With the new ignitor it took 4 minutes to fire up the pellets.
It had barely stopped feeding when the fire started and the pellets filled just about half the burnpot. That is the good news.
The bad news is that the fire didnt build up enough and the ignitor was on for a total of 11 minutes altogether.
I suspect that the reason was that the heat sensor must have not detect enough heat coming, because the burnpot was barely half full and it was not being fed for several minutes so the fire was not hot enough.The picture show the kind of fire that was going on.
When the feeder started again, after a couple cycles it fed enough pellets for the fire to pick up enough to turn the ignitor off.

I dont think this is normal but I will check future ignitions to see if this happens again. It was weird.
And yes when I do a deep cleaning (everytime when the ash pan is full) I do scrub the heat sensor with a brush.

 

[dingees]

you were probably getting the same ignitor replaced each time and they were prone to failure until they came up with this most recent design. they did not have a proplem for a long time and the manufacture of the ignitor changed the specs on the coil causing failures but they did not get this resolved untill recently.
But also for do it selfers and also techs it is important to put them in the proper way and have they wire facing to the right so as not to kink, also pulled back to the rear so the high temp wire is all that is inside the chamber, also the removeable retainer plate holding on the ignitor is on properly as it will go either way but one way will prevent the ignitor making good igniton and will take longer to light causing the smoke to builtup and get the mini bank when the smoke ignites.
isn't it great that they have stood behind their product as most companies only give one year or two and then no labor.

 

[minnow]

Ignitor life depends on a couple factors with Harmans, due to the placement of it in the pot.
1. ashes build up under the pot, and you must clean this area on a regular basis... don't wait till it has problems igniting till you clean it, or even let a half full area lay there. scrape the pot to keep carbon outta the holes... and (although it is a rare issue) check your air intake flap for proper operation.. If it is not allowing sufficient airflow, then it will take long times to ignite, or not, and chew up your ignitor.
2. don't use it like an oil or gas furnace when you are running it all the time, any way. leave it on.. When you have it set up to heat the house in winter vs your central heat, leave the ignitor switch on manual, or set it to stove temp. Auto Room temp is for shoulder season. zapping that 305 watt thing on a dozen times a day in winter will shorten its life.

I have a Harmon insert and leave it on room temperature. My stove stays lit most of the time during the heart of the winter. The fire may burn down from time to time as room temperature rises but generally stays lit. I would say that in the course of 24 hours, the ignitor may come on at most 3 to four times. I doubt that the OP's ignitor is coming on any more frequently than that - certainly not 12 times a day.

 

[Defiant]

I have the same stove, run it at room temp keep it on auto, may relight once or twice a day, no problems.