Advice on mini-splits
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velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
true. But with electricity you pay for after you use it.versus the commodities that you have to buy before you use it.some people prefer to use the money that way
DIrtyJersey
Member
I do HVAC for a living. I have been installing Daikin mini-splits. Very nice stuff well made and many options.
http://www.daikin.com/global_ac/products_category/for_your_home.html
http://www.daikin.com/global_ac/products_category/for_your_home.html
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Anyone have experience with Gree , they sell at Home Depot? THey have 3;levels of efficiency. Highest being 28.
Since I have effectively bought 20 years or more of electricity by installing PV panels to cover the mini split, I don't really consider electricity costs (although I may have to with in the next bill or two).
I saw some Gree units installed on a recent trip to Hong Kong. Seemed popular (over there).
Cutting it close this month. I made it to my mid march power bill and I have 63 KW surplus left for a credit. If the sun is out and no snow on my arrays, I can generate 25 KWhrs a day. If we had normal temps this month I think I might squeak through the winter running the mini split for free but given the current forecast I am not so confident. About 1700 kWhrs run through the heat pump from November.
Knock on wood, my wood boiler has been shut down for the season since last week and my oil boiler is shut off. I am now running on the mini split for all my household heat and my solar hot water is switched over to summer mode where the panels supply all the hot water with no backup on DC pump and solar panel. The PV system is supplying far more power than it takes to run the heat pump so as now I am running for "free" until October (I hope!).
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
How does net metering work when you use the bank of kwh in a peak season, like in the dead of winter? Do they give you full credit? In NYS this winter, electric prices shot up a lot, maybe 50%.
Slow1
Minister of Fire
I don't know about NY or other states, but in Mass, I get a $ credit on my account. When I generate more than I use, the credit increases at the current rate; likewise when I use more than I generate I effectively "buy" the power at the current effective rate. I'm on a fixed rate plan so it makes no difference to me for the most part (I end up at about $0.17/kwh either way), however if the plan rate were to go up in cost I'd effectively get fewer Kwh back than I 'banked' in the system... Same dollar value, but less utility. Of course I get a $4.00/mo charge to be connected (quite a bargain for not having to buy batteries).
It varies state by state, NH has about the easiest policy, I build up a KW credit not a dollar credit, as long as I have KW in the bank, PSNH has to give me them back so the cost of power doesnt factor in. If you look at my meter in the fall it is negative and as the winter rolls along it slowly becomes positive. They didnt reset the meter when the system went on line so even though its positive I still may have credit. Since I am trying to sell SRECs, I also have a separate production meter that only records my generation that I installed.
PSNH has both generation and distribution and was not deregulated like other states. In a deregulated state I have no idea how they would manage it although some states do feed in tariffs. Net metering is a losing proposition for the utilities and they are fighting it in some states. In NH the law was written to encourage renewables up to 1% of the generation and then the program would be capped. They haven't hit that yet but it was one of the reasons why I installed an additional array as typically what the PUC does is "grandfather" a rate rather than eliminating it. The reality is that PSNH is just adding this effective subsidy for solar to the other ratepayers like they do all the other renewable incentives for wind and biomass.
Other net metering states do a yearly gross up where they reset the KWhr credit to zero at a given date and pay the homeowner a wholesale rate for excess power. Some dont even pay for the excess. I can get paid for my excess once a year but its at a lower rate than residential so I would much rather run my heat pump.
In CA where there are utilities with tiered rates, some solar users are gaming the system to their advantage, they have a battery bank and sell all their solar power during the day including what is in their battery bank and then recharge the battery bank at night with low cost power. These battery systems are getting banned from net metering due to this.
In general there is much debate over net metering and feed in tariffs. Most of the New England States had renewable portfolio standards and the laws require a certain percentage of renewables over the course of year. The current rules are the utilities have to buy it whether they need it or not. When compared to the long term wind contracts like Cape Wind that is reportedly near 30 cents a KW on a continuous basis, net metering is probably a better deal for them.
Once NH starts allowing me to sell thermal SRECs for heating my house with a wood boiler, I expect I will have to relook at the whole concept again.
By the way, I pay about $12 a month for the utility to be my battery.
DBoon
Minister of Fire
Hi velvetfoot, in NY state, you get a yearly net meter based on kWh, not price. The net metering starts when you get a PV system installed, and you can adjust this later. If you haven't built up a kWh credit and you use more than you produce, you pay the difference at the retail rate.
I had my net meter reset to begin May 1st. But in retrospect, I think I should have had it started March 1st.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
So, if you had some kWh in the bank, earned when the price was lower last summer, you could use it when the prices went high this winter. That's pretty good, because I don't think that's going to change for the next few years.
CaptSpiff
Minister of Fire
Why would that practice be banned? It seems to accomplish exactly the goal of "peak shaving" that the time-of-day price structure is made to address, only on steriods.
They ban it because the utility lacks control on the process (which if widely adopted could lead to an unstable grid) and the profits made are not being made by them.
FYI, CA utilities are rolling out their own battery banks to do the same thing. IOW, they don't want any competition.
FYI, CA utilities are rolling out their own battery banks to do the same thing. IOW, they don't want any competition.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
We do something similar with hydroelectric. We pump water up to a high lake during low demand times and then drain the lake through the turbines when demand is high. I say we but I mean the utility.
There seem to be a plausible explanations here:
http://www.revisionheat.com/the-latest-heat-pump-works-down-to-15f/
http://www.gogginenergy.com/tips-rants/article.aspx?id=24
It seems the H units are less efficient below 30* when a drain pan heater is activated.
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Did OP ever report on how the upper level unit in the hallway worked? We are thinking about something similar and have conflicting recommendations with some saying separate heads are needed for each room, while others are suggesting to direct one unit down the hall or install an ceiling mounted unit nearest to room doors. what is the potential for this type of setup to improve heat and cooling conditions in the upper level? Thank you for your feedback.
rfin, try starting a conversation with the OP to trigger an email to him. Also, maybe start a new thread and post a sketch of the floorplan(s) if you don't get a timely response.
Lots of Daikin systems being sold out here too. That is their global website. It's very thin on product info. You need to go to the North American site for better info:
http://daikincomfort.com/home
peirhead
Feeling the Heat
You guys in the States have fantastic rebates on Solar Electric (PV systems).......even here in Canada a 5 Kw system is now under $20K without any rebates....perhaps it would be worth a look and what you can get there??? with your high CT electric rates it makes these systems even more attractive especially if you are thinking the heat pump route.
We heated the house in May with the heat pump with daytime temps in the 50s and 60s, nighttime temps in the 40s and low 50s. We also charged our electric car daily. Total electric bill was like $24. We expect in June for it to hit $0.00 or better yet, they pay us for that month in spite of our daily use of hot water, etc..
maple1
Minister of Fire
Buddy of mine had an LG put in, back in December.
After going through his power bills for the winter, he figures that overall it cost them about $1/day (at $0.18/kwh) to run it. He's in a Cape Cod, and they also run a wood stove when they are home. He had the LG set at 17c all winter, and were gone on a lot of overnight trips, and slacked off on the stove tending. They really like it - don't have to be a slave to the stove anymore or run out of bed in the morning through the cold to get it going .
After going through his power bills for the winter, he figures that overall it cost them about $1/day (at $0.18/kwh) to run it. He's in a Cape Cod, and they also run a wood stove when they are home. He had the LG set at 17c all winter, and were gone on a lot of overnight trips, and slacked off on the stove tending. They really like it - don't have to be a slave to the stove anymore or run out of bed in the morning through the cold to get it going .
DIrtyJersey
Member
Yes they are. I just threw that up so someone can see what options are out there. Just got done installing one in a home that has 4 zones. 2-2 ton coils and 2 -1 ton. Unit works great. With my cost all the parts involved. four line sets,4 condensate pumps, remotes,wiring and a few other bits. About 4900.00 my cost. Verses their quote to have duct work put into the tune of 40 grand. Big house.
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