Post in 'The Wood Shed' started by argus66, Dec 6, 2008.
Hey Bigg Redd
I said i ordered 2 cords which is 256 CU FT.
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Pennsylvania State Regulations:
Technically, in Pennsylvania, ya can't offer firewood for sale by the bucket, tractor, truck, pile, load, log, bus, rick, rack, face, butt, or any other way other than
BY THE CORD, Half Cord, Quarter Cord, etc.
This law, however, is most often not enforced
Seems this thread has struck a CHORD
i can't figure out what the debate is here? a cord is a cord. as others have said and posted links to prove it - it is an official unit of measure. it does not vary from region to region. anyone who thinks selling a face cord and advertising it as a cord is acceptable either has no clue about selling/buying firewood, or is himself a dishonest firewood seller.
A cord of wood in rounds, stacked tightly is 128 cubic feet. No more and no less. The State of Vermont requires wood be sold in cord quantities only. No face cords, brush cords or bamboozle cords. My 5 cord purchase of bucked wood split and stacked to 4.5 cord, about right for the tighter stacking of the splits. Yup, that is next winters wood all put up for $125 a cord bucked. Wood sellers here are also required to give a receipt, if requested, of the sale. If legal in your state, lesser amounts can be sold if advertised as face cord etc.
I have a friend who sells wood, he sells by the pickup truck load. He gets about 85 dollars for his pickup bed load of wood. I'm guessing about 1/3 to 1/2 cord. He doesn't advertise by the cord, because he isn't selling by the cord, but by a different unit of measure, the size of his truck bed. Everybody he sells to are aware of the arrangement, and the size of the load, and the price for that load. My buddy also delivers, and insists that the buyer observe and agree on the size and price of the load, before the unloading, and before he accepts payment.
A cord is a cord. Anyone advertising a cord for a given price, should deliver 128 square feet of wood for that price. Period, no arguments, or discussion. If this guy is advertising a cord, and it isn't a cord, he is cheating his customers! I don't sell my wood, but my wood racks measure .7 cord per rack. I would sell by the rack, advertised as .7 cord for a given price. If the seller want to sell by the "stack" he should be allowed to do that, as long as he calls it a "stack", and that the size of a "stack" is constant.
I say report him! There are allot of people, just getting into burning wood, that will be taken advantage of if you don't. Dishonest this seller is, and he needs to be educated, and/or corrected, by the appropriate people or agencies.
Ja, I know... they whip it full of air.
Seems some frozen meats have an awful lot of water come out of them when they thaw too. Sausages shrink down to nothing.
At work, our wood yard is strewn with big boulders that came in with the wood. When a trucker tares out at the scale, he takes his lunch pail out of the truck!
Everyone's out to give you less for your money.
wow thanks to all who responded,,, very interesting both sides ,,,,well first off i do own a saw and cut most of my own wood and got about 4 cords of wood out of all that i scrounged and rented a spliter from home depot. but being that it got pretty cold here early and looking at my amount of wood i was worried i would not make it threw a cold winter. this guys wood is great seasoned wise ready to burn right now. plus like i said i bought there last yr and was pleased thus why i went back. bottom line is a face cord is a a way to rip people off... if your gonna advertise a cord it better be a cord not if ands or buts if u wanna call it something different it better be something different. bottom line IF IM SELLING 4 CAR TIRES AND U SHOW UP TO BUY THEM I CANT GIVE U 2 AND SAY THAT THATS A FACE TIRE...... thank u for the link i will contact them on mon. i plan on taking this all the way the guy was such a a..hole, ill let all know how this works out.
BBB and DWM will do nothing . NO crime or illeagal act was committed. You were on this guys property hasselling him when he clearly stated the amount of wood you wood get for xxxx amount of dollars. He is guilty at worst of using the wrong terminology ( cord is vague - should have said full cord) on his sign and he potentially has every right to pursue harassment charges against you.
If you do decide to pursue this , be prepared to be blacklisted by the vendors in your area as they are a pretty tight nit group.
If you had been at my place dickering price like this you wood have been escorted off the property in a loader bucket( welcome to Appalachia). The price and quantity is what it is. Take it or leave it.
Downeast gets wind of this and you'll get a double dose.
Whoa Lee: take a deep breath. Think this discussion is mostly about the "little guys" that deliver more or sometimes less than promised.
I understand your angst, but some of these people are desperate, I know, they should have planned ahead. And hopefully, now that they have joined this forum , they will.
You are a good guy, so just tell them to be smart and buy way,way ahead of time-then there is no dissapointment.
I know you can do much better than just getting angry. Show us your stuff.
Not angry, just stating some facts. I could care less what he does. Bottom line is this guy didn't do anything wrong. He stated (dimensions) what he had for sale and at what price. Customer tried getting him to sell more for less and vendor said this is what it is , take it or leave it. No sale , no problem, walk away onto the next.
I don't put up with this BS at my wood yard. Show me the money or move on!
and show me a full cord and i'll gladly pay you your "cord" price then again i could care less i pay the log guy to drop off a bunch of logs (maybe 5 cord worth) for $400.00 if it comes over or under i could care less - I love log lenght
WOW. I am so very glad i don't have to buy wood from you. Only a Lawyer or a crooked wood salesman could defend this. Either way both crooks. Sorry if i offended any Lawyers.
So what you are saying is that because this wood vendor stated his dimension of a cord as "16 inches x8 feet " and his price of $120 or $100 after he was **** down by customer and NO SALE WAS MADE, he is a crook. Give me a break! You guys are starting to sound like the pelletheads crying "price gouging" ! As long as the dimensions of what you are selling are stated you can call it whatever you want and this vendor clearly (or maybe not so clearly as we have not heard his side of the story) did that.
The sign said "FIREWOOD $120 A CORD" When he went inside the guy was not selling a cord. It was a ( RACK 16"x8' ). The sign should have said
"A RACK for $120" And that would have been fine. As long as everybody is in agreement. It sounds like a bait and switch to me.
What happened to me and a lot of other people is wrong. I know what a full cord is but a lot of people don't. I got 156 CU FT for the price of two cords. I was shorted 100 CU FT. The guy did give me a little more but not nearly enough. I knew enough to question it. It doesn't sound like he was trying to "***" anybody down. He just asked a few questions.
If a product is sold by the amount, in this case 128 CU FT of firewood that is close to the amount you should receive. I realize it's not going to be exact like the 64OZ in a gallon of milk. But it should be a lot closer then 100 CU FT short.
I'm not trying to start a fight but I and i'm sure yourself work too damn hard to be ripped off at every turn.
Now the OP didn't say what price he paid for the full cords he bought last year but none the less, if a cord last year from the same seller was close to 128 cu ft, the seller cannot change the size of his cord and still call it a cord.
my brother lives in maine.if you pull that crap up there shorting people on wood you will be fined,by the attorney general's office forget about the b.b.b. also go to maine attorney general web page there is a cord wood calculator it makes it much easier to measure.
I'm glad they don't do that with gasoline. The BBB don't usually do much about fly-by-night short term scoundrels any way. Like you said "you were shown what you get" for the price requested. It's a buyer be ware market a lot of the times because neither the buyer or seller know the true standard and assume it it's up to the individual. Moving on is a good suggestion too! Let him soak in his sweat and unsold labor it's easier than litigation in small claims court. Maybe he'll see reason when he don't make a sale for a while. If it really galls you send a nice card with the standard unit of weights and measures for wood and other things. Maybe the guy don't know his calculations are off. If he does know he is doing something wrong by presenting false advertising. But it is still up to the customer to decide whether or not to spend the cash and once that is knowledgeably done do like you said "move on" and I'll add...don't look back!
I would NEVER buy wood to burn way to much laying arround dead I see it on the side of the roads everwhere.
And what the heck is a FACE CORD? Rediculous A CORD IS A CORD, AND A CORD WILL ALWAYS BE A CORD. 4' wide 8' long 4' tall in Missouri.
The best way I would think to buy, would be buy seeing the stack on site, take youre tape measure. If it is not a cord tell them so and walk off.
wow lees wood i didnt see u there where were u ??????? those are a lot of statements for someone who wasnt even there.... first of all i showed no aggression or hostility second i have 3 witnesses 2 of which are no relation to me or my family, and a stranger was there before me i was talking too after to buy a half a cord and was told that was only 50 logs ??? who was really pissed. and u are wrong charges cannot be brought against me what so ever. this is a real place of business not a house on the side of the road or some wood lot this is a registered place of business with the bbb. that sells firewood, dirt, mulch, rock, sand etc.. going into a place of buisness and asking questions is by no means against the law or harresment... your are missing the point here completely the problem was not over the price which i thought was fine it was the said amount which has changed from 2 pervious sales.... i did not dick on the price as u stateted all i said was $100 for a half a cord and the guy went nuts... saying 1 8ft x 16 inch rack is a full cord because the wood was split 3 times. i wish he did put me in a loader bucket id have all the wood i could ever want and a new house and wood stove. all anyone wants is what they are paying for if the add says full cord $100 then give me the cord if that is not the price change the dam add $200 a cord which is still a good price. its that easy....
Which is it ? Please clarify.
1. You saw the sign for $120/cord. Walked in and offered him $100 for half cord.
Surely I wood have taken your offer as half a cord would work out to $60 at his price.
2. You saw a sign for $120/cord. Walked in and argued what a cord is. His version 16" x 8'. You're version 4'x4'x8'. You pissed him off because he is selling in certain quantities which there was full disclosure . He wants $120 (for 16"x8')for "his" cord and he lets you know EXACTLY what you are getting for your money. You then procede to offer him $100 for half of your version of a cord (4x4x8) which wood equal 1.5 of his cord which comes out to $180 at his price.He gets pissed again because you are dickering price. You get pissed and walk away because his price is higher than last year and he didn't want to play your $ game and then post here. There was FULL disclosure of the quantity of wood and money amount before money changed hands. In which money didn't change hands so no harm done.
Which one is it? Me thinks the later.
If the guy is a member of the BBB why don't you get on their site and find out how many complaints he has against him. I'll bet not many if any.Better yet call him and invite him to join Hearth because there are always 2 sides to a story.
If the sign said FULL CORD, I could understand you turning him in for false advertisement. But the sign said cord (which IS vague and should have stated full cord or fraction thereof)) and the dimesions were clarified BEFORE the sale which was not executed in the first place.You really don't have a dog in this fight because no purchase was made. Forget about this guy quit crying over spilt milk and find another vendor.
You seem to be stuck on the money not changing hands and the full disclosure part, neither of which holds water in a "bait and switch" case of misleading advertising.
The law, in very clear terms says there is only one definition of a cord. It does not make a distinction between a FULL cord, or just a cord because CORD means 128 cu ft (your FULL CORD) in the eyes of the law. The seller previously sold a FULL cord so it appears the seller knows what a cord is. The seller cannot advertise a cord and then later through full disclosure 'fess up that it is really just a rack of wood. The advertisement is the bait, and the disclosure is the switch. Money does not have to change hands for a misleading advertising and/or bait and switch crime.
My bad. Somehow I got 1 cord stuck in my head.
So that's a "no" on my offer of $2600 for a cord? I'll help stack it when I get there. . . anyone?
For what it's worth, I agree 100% with LLigetfa's statement. A cord is a precise definition just as is a pound or a pint a gallon or a ton or whatever.
A gas station can't advertise a price per gallon and then say, "Oh we didn't mean a full gallon". Nor can an honest wood seller advertise a cord and then say it isn't a full cord.
Obviously, it is up to the OP to decide whether this is a battle he wants to fight. It may be more trouble than it is worth but IMHO he certainly wouldn't be wrong in reporting this.
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