Another newbie looking for advice

[weatherguy]

Thank you for these suggestions, Grisu. Are Ecobricks typically carried on store shelves? The person from whom we purchased the wood said that the logs were between one and three seasons cut, but he splits right before delivery. Some splits were quite dry but some were not- still very heavy. It's all oak- red oak, I think. ??? (Still have a lot to learn about trees and fire wood.) We cross-stacked the wood so that air/wind could penetrate from any direction. There is typically at least a breeze across this property pretty much all the time. If the wood doesn't dry out enough to burn by next winter, it's OK. We don't have to live there full time yet- we can wait.

You can get eco's at Tractor Supply check the dealer locator, there's a garden enter near me that's sells some good compressed wood products, even better than eco bricks. TRy and get ash and maple as soon as you can, ash will dry in ones season no problems as long as its stacked in thes un and wind.

 

[RickBlaine]

Did the original poster ever say WHERE he is located? I think you can get more targeted advice if you named your city- i.e weather patterns.

 

[avsmusic1]

smokedragon - I'm afraid my room wouldn't accommodate a freestanding that projects too far from my hearth. My LR is long, but fairly narrow. Also, the wife isn't wild about this idea.

Also, RickBlaine- I'm in CT

One of our local retailers said they may have a Lopi insert that meets our criteria (mostly) and has a firebox larger than the models I noted earlier. The only exception is the depth is ~18" but it seems like we could create some 1" trim if we wanted to go that route. The firebox is close to 3 cuft.

My concern/question is - could we really expect to be able to heat the whole house appropriately anyway? Given our layout and the drafty nature of our home, I'm not sure that a large firebox would do much more than heat a somewhat fixed area to a higher degree. I've seen posts regarding fan setups and whatnot, but I'm not sold.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

smokedragon - I'm afraid my room wouldn't accommodate a freestanding that projects too far from my hearth. My LR is long, but fairly narrow. Also, the wife isn't wild about this idea.

Also, RickBlaine- I'm in CT

One of our local retailers said they may have a Lopi insert that meets our criteria (mostly) and has a firebox larger than the models I noted earlier. The only exception is the depth is ~18" but it seems like we could create some 1" trim if we wanted to go that route. The firebox is close to 3 cuft.

My concern/question is - could we really expect to be able to heat the whole house appropriately anyway? Given our layout and the drafty nature of our home, I'm not sure that a large firebox would do much more than heat a somewhat fixed area to a higher degree. I've seen posts regarding fan setups and whatnot, but I'm not sold.

Your better off going into this thinking that you are not going to heat the whole house, you have long walls and corners to go around in, be happy heating the living room and anything more is bonus. Where is the thermostat located in the house? Bigger is better, you could always not use the fan or have a smaller fire, but after having this crazy cold winter behind us, it is better to have the firepower and not use it all than get stuck and feel cheated like many did on here this past winter......

 

[avsmusic1]

Only thermostat in the house is in the LR

If I'm targeting a LR only heater than the little Hearthstone Craftsbury looks appealing as the least expensive option. While I certainly recognize the value/flexibility of a larger firebox, I'm hesitant to spend the $1,000+ difference for the Lopi if the incremental benefit is going to be nominal. Also, I'm not sure the marginal differences in firebox size between the inserts I have looked at (enviro - 1.85 cuft, Montpilier - 1.5??) would have an impact either, especially b/c it sounds like freestanders seem to heat a little better that the inserts (right?). Is there a general rule of thumb for how much larger the firebox would need to be to actually perceive a difference?

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Well take your time and buy the right one, don't rush this important decision, keep asking questions and take your layout to different inset companies......free stander is not what you want or need. Keep searching inserts....
Also, my friend had a thermostat near the fireplace, everytime he used the fp, his wife would complain the bedroom upstairs was cold because the heat would not go on upstairs. That's why I asked. That front room looks like it will get comfy warm with any insert.....

 

[avsmusic1]

I hear ya on the thermostat issue. I've run into that as well.

Any particular reason you suggest I should be favoring the inserts over the freestander?

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

My reason is that you want supplemental heat and ambiance. A flush insert takes up no space in the room and one with a large glass surface shows off the fire perfectly. Just was giving my opinion....

 

[Grisu]

The only exception is the depth is ~18" but it seems like we could create some 1" trim if we wanted to go that route.

If you would not mind to have the insert stick out a little bit more, the Pacific Energy Super has a 2 cu ft firebox, mantel clearance of 15" and ember protection hearth only. It has some of the longest burn times for a medium non-catalytic stove/insert. I have it myself and can wholeheartedly recommend it. Only drawback is its depth of 18". Btw. Another one that should fit with the mantel and depth is the Regency I2400, but it will need some r-value in the hearth. Almost the same is true for the HI300, but the required depth is 17.5". Have you also looked at the BlazeKing Princess insert? You may just squeak in with the mantle clearance, the rest should fit. It is catalytic meaning you can adjust the heat output really well relative to the outside temps and still get a clean burn.

My concern/question is - could we really expect to be able to heat the whole house appropriately anyway? Given our layout and the drafty nature of our home, I'm not sure that a large firebox would do much more than heat a somewhat fixed area to a higher degree. I've seen posts regarding fan setups and whatnot, but I'm not sold.

The advantage of a larger firebox than the options you mentioned is the possibility to have an overnight burn. That means in the morning you will come down and still have enough hot coals left for an easy restart with some smaller splits in the bottom and larger ones on top. That threshold is usually around a firebox size of ~2 cu ft. Smaller than that and the stove and flue will be cold in the morning and you will have to go through the whole startup routine (kindling, newspaper/firestarter, small splits etc.). A cold flue will also make for more creosote so more frequent sweeping may be required.

However, I agree that your layout can be challenging. A small desktop fan placed in the dining room on the floor blowing air towards the living room may get enough heat out of the there that it can then diffuse towards the kitchen and the stairwell. No one will be able to guarantee you that, though. Moving the thermostat may be a good idea in any case.

especially b/c it sounds like freestanders seem to heat a little better that the inserts (right?).

I doubt that in your situation with an interior fireplace a stove will heat better than an insert. The only heat you will lose is the one going up the flue and that is determined by the efficiency of the unit and not whether it is an insert or stove. What may happen with an insert is that some heat will go towards heating the bricks. Thus, it will appear to heat up more slowly than a stove. On the other hand, the bricks will radiate that heat over many hours back into the house. You will have the effect of a masonry heater. I have a similar setup and can tell you that standing at the back of the fireplace makes you realize how much the bricks have soaked up the heat.

 

[prezes13]

Avsmusic1 I don't know where in ct you are but deans stove and spa in plantsville has a great selection of stoves. Did you look into Travis ind. flushed inserts? I have a lopi cape cod and from my expirience I can tell you that bricks above 3" of my insert stay cool.

 

[begreen]

Only thermostat in the house is in the LR

If I'm targeting a LR only heater than the little Hearthstone Craftsbury looks appealing as the least expensive option. While I certainly recognize the value/flexibility of a larger firebox, I'm hesitant to spend the $1,000+ difference for the Lopi if the incremental benefit is going to be nominal. Also, I'm not sure the marginal differences in firebox size between the inserts I have looked at (enviro - 1.85 cuft, Montpilier - 1.5??) would have an impact either, especially b/c it sounds like freestanders seem to heat a little better that the inserts (right?). Is there a general rule of thumb for how much larger the firebox would need to be to actually perceive a difference?

You will find that the best heating inserts generally project out onto the hearth a bit. That allows them to convect heat better naturally. A flush insert will need a fan constantly running to get the heat out. A larger firebox will be beneficial with longer burns and more reserve capacity. To heat with a little stove like the Craftsbury in very cold weather you would need to be stoking it every 3 hrs or so. Of the stoves mentioned the Boston is a better choice and a well-liked insert.

Looking at your floor plan I would consider putting in a quiet fan that uses the wall cavity as a plenum. I would put this in on the common wall between the LR and the hallway near the stairs, setup so that it blows hallway air into the LR. The Tjernlund Air Share is an example fan.
http://www.tjernlund.com/newproducts.htm#AireShare%99_Room-to-Room_Ventilators

 

[avsmusic1]

Avsmusic1 I don't know where in ct you are but deans stove and spa in plantsville has a great selection of stoves. Did you look into Travis ind. flushed inserts? I have a lopi cape cod and from my expirience I can tell you that bricks above 3" of my insert stay cool.
View attachment 131358

I paid them a visit a week or two ago actually and they were the ones suggesting the Lopi I noted earlier. They seem to be a good outfit. There is a small shop in New Hartford that I've been talking with. They don't carry Travis Industries but he has been exceptionally helpful.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

How many sq ft is the living room and that smaller out cove?

 

[avsmusic1]

The advantage of a larger firebox than the options you mentioned is the possibility to have an overnight burn. That means in the morning you will come down and still have enough hot coals left for an easy restart with some smaller splits in the bottom and larger ones on top. That threshold is usually around a firebox size of ~2 cu ft. Smaller than that and the stove and flue will be cold in the morning and you will have to go through the whole startup routine (kindling, newspaper/firestarter, small splits etc.). A cold flue will also make for more creosote so more frequent sweeping may be required.

I'm actually torn as to whether or not I want an overnight burn. I know that seems a bit counter intuitive, but if the insert wont heat the whole house then a shorter burn may be preferable considering my thermostat is in the LR. I don't want the stove heating the LR only over the night and keeping the furnace from kicking on to heat our bedrooms

Also, I haven't looked at the blaze king stoves yet, but I definitely will. Thanks

 

[begreen]

If not overnight burn, think all day burn. It's nice to be able to load the stove only 3 times a day (once every 8 hrs). Less mess and fussing. With the circulation fan establishing a convection loop you may get more overall heating than expected.

 

[prezes13]

As far as eco bricks BT enterprises in Bristol carry all different types of bricks. They sell them by a package or a skid and they deliver.

 

[prezes13]

You are not sure about the overnight burn now but let me tell you as soon as you will have that stove going and you will have your living room over 75 degrees you will want to run that stove 24/7. When I got mine insert it was intended to be run on the evening for ambience only. Before I knew I was runing it to heat the house exclusively with wood. It's almost addiction for me.

 

[Grisu]

You are not sure about the overnight burn now but let me tell you as soon as you will have that stove going and you will have your living room over 75 degrees you will want to run that stove 24/7. When I got mine insert it was intended to be run on the evening for ambience only. Before I knew I was runing it to heat the house exclusively with wood. It's almost addiction for me.

Same for me. I got mine for the tax credit, as an emergency heater, and for occasional weekend ambiance + heat. For the first winter I had about 1.5 cords of seasoned wood left from the previous owner; those were done in February. After that I was busy splitting pallets and I had my eyes on the dining room table, but somehow my wife did not warm up to that idea.

I am still not a 24/7 burner but the insert covers about 2/3 of your heating load and runs most nights and constantly over the weekend and holidays.

 

[avsmusic1]

as soon as you will have that stove going and you will have your living room over 75 degrees you will want to run that stove 24/7

I'm afraid I may get myself into trouble now

Prezes - If i may be so bold, what did your insert run you?

 

[weatherguy]

I echo what these guys are telling you, I got my insert for supplemental heat and to heat the lower level, it ended up heating more than I thought so now I'm selling my Princess and moving up to a Woodstock.

 

[prezes13]

Insert was $2999 two years ago. Liner 15' ss flexible $450 that included cap. They wanted $600 for a base install but I put it in by myself with a help of my buddies

 

[Charles1981]

For Casual Burning and the (keyword) most aesthetically pleasing stove the VC wins hands down imo. I think however it also wins the most expensive category and also on these forums VC doesn't have the same amount respect it did in the past as people do have issues with their burning system (down draft) and the catalysts.

I have a VC free standing stove and have been very happy with it, but the catalyst is NOT durable...at least this year it epically failed and disintegrated. When it was working (Last year and this year for ~3 months it was great). The Montpelier can not run without the catalyst (whereas my stove can and have been doing so for the past 1.5 months and its still doing a good job).

I think if you are casually burning though the VC is a good choice hands down and you will be very happy with it. If you are going to start burning daily or 24/7 there may be better choices but then it becomes less of an aesthetic choice.

 

[avsmusic1]

The Montpelier can not run without the catalyst (whereas my stove can and have been doing so for the past 1.5 months and its still doing a good job).

I believe the model I'm looking at is a non-catalytic model

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Vermont Castings Montpelier (w/3”extension)

Go ahead and scratch that off your list

 

[avsmusic1]

Go ahead and scratch that off your list

I take it you're one of the people that isn't a fan or VC as charles noted? or are there specific issues with this model?
Thanks

Also, anyone know of any freestanders that have a mantle shield mounted on the stove? I'm not saying I definitely want to go that route, but I'd like to make sure I've explored all my options. I've been hunting around a bit with minimal luck.