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Another Pelpro - Any ideas on improving heat output.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Don2222, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello

    Picked up Pelpro HHPP2BD - 120 lb Hopper Pelpro pellet stove.

    http://heating-and-cooling.hardware...eap-charlie-franklin-pellet-stove-102326.aspx

    It has the latest digital control panel that works well with a T-Stat.

    The combustion blower is really noisy and I have to swap it out but looks like the standard 3,000 RPM size blower.

    The reviews are overall good with the damper adjustment a little too course and the heat output a little low on lower heat settings. It does use 1.5 to 5.5 lbs per hour going thru heat settings 1 - 4.

    I called Danson and the tech support guy stated 110 Deg F out of the heat exchanger tubes is normal.

    It has a 265 CFM convection fan which is really enormous and much higher than 150 - 165 CFM of other stoves with similar burn rates.

    Therefore, as a test I was thinking about adding a rheostat on the room blower to tone it down a bit and do some heat testing.

    Any other ideas?

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  2. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    110 is normal? That isn't right. That would make that unit about 35% efficient when you think about how hot the fire actually is. Give us a mag reading off the vac switch before you replace the motor. I bet the crimps are loose...sounds like a vra vra vra vra vra?
  3. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    What should the temp be?
  4. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    What color should the sky be?
  5. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    The sky is blue but what air temp should be coming out of the heat exhangers when you have a 265 CFM room blower?
  6. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    What setting were you running? And for what time period?

    If you only ran setting 3 for 35 minutes, then the stove was not up to temp?

    Some stoves have a better extraction (exchange) but some need to run for over an hour and let the entire stove reach temp.
  7. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Hey Don,

    The older Breckwells were similar with a 250 CFM blower. The new ones have about half that. So they seem hotter(and over heat themselves too). What the old stove had over the newer version is it turned the air in the home quicker and the stove didn't need to about cook itself.

    Is the blower variable with the controller?
  8. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Good info Jay. When I get this stove in my test bed, I will try something like that.
    The blower is not variable from the factory but maybe I can add something.
  9. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    The blower is constant 110? I would think it steps up with Heat setting? If it has the newest board, why would it blow the same air on level 1, as it does on level 4? Just wondering?
  10. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    It does step up I believe, but 265 CFM is still too high for each heat setting, like your 250 CFM for your 10-CPM. It may be good CFM for corn and hotter biomass but too much for wood pellets. When I get it in the shed, I hope to figure out a good solution!
  11. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    You think the sky is blue, but it really never is. Often its purple or green or pink, teal but very rarely is it just blue. What part of the sky? What time of day? Where on Earth? When its sunny or cloudy?

    What I'm trying to say is that the temp from any given heat exchanger is relative. One must consider elevation, pellets, CFMs, clean or dirty? There are a gazillion variables. Asking what temp the exchanger should be is as nonsensical as asking what color the sky should be....a simple answer is Hot or Blue but with not so much exacting detail.
  12. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Blue sky? Lately its been mostly gray around here. Some white mixed in with blue today. Should get out and enjoy it!
  13. howardvw

    howardvw New Member

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    wondering if theres an update from don? i have an 03 hhpp2 which works great solid flame no popping. i just bought a 09 floor model new and it wont flame, way too fast of a motor i think, i cannot get any flame always popping.. i actually taped up the intake hole and it doesnt do anything different.
  14. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Very Interesting! I am waiting for a new control panel from Danson so I cannot fire it up yet. However I did can the squirrel cage exhaust blower and put in a nice Enviro exhaust blower with housing! See pics > > http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...st-blower-any-suggestions.95090/#post-1274617

    What are some of the differences between your 2003 and 2009? With these 3 stoves we can find the answer!
  15. howardvw

    howardvw New Member

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    my 03 is about the same on the inside, as far as i can tell, same motors.blowers, sensors, hopper shape tin metal postions everything.
    outside, i see the hopper lid is large on the 09, the front has no door for ash, the 03 had a door-not a pan but just a door. the front door has a differnent hinge on it.
    the exhaust blower on the 03 had a moulded tin on the output then you attach your exhaust to that inside the box. the 09 now has a longer output and then a 2 piece exhaust extending past the back panel. the damper rod is slightly changed its shape on the inside of the intake hole, it now has holes in the plate and doesnt close as tightly as my 03.
    i bought an 09 3 weeks ago, i never got it to flame, so i exchanged it, new one does the same thing. i troubled shooted with pelpro for days, im returning this one and just stocking up on parts for my 03 model. conclusion we came to was maybe the guy who sealed the intake box forgot on both boxes the same seal position on both....sound crazy? both were same month and same year models, ive rund my 03 for a few years now and it flames perfectly, i asked if they made them a non flaming upgrade to them, he said no way they should flame. i even closed the hoel completly to the intake, and it still pops sparks etc...so i need to move on.
    i still trust my 03, but the exhaust is on its way out, this is my only heat source so i wanted a back-up. i wanted to stay with the same model to swap parts if one fails.

    seems like the boxy style puts a few more btu than the fancier looking ones.
    so im now considering the englander 2000sq 25pah box style, lowes and home depot sell em around 1500. huge plus for me is i can get the fan off the shelf.
    i would love some feedback on this style.
    1st picture is my 03, 2nd 09. same speed 1.

    Attached Files:

  16. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    You have way too much burn air being drawn into the fire box. The combustion blower may be too big or the control panel may not be outputting the correct voltage for each speed. You can put a Digital volt meter on the blower and see.
  17. howardvw

    howardvw New Member

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    yup. i asked pelpro if the fan is too big, he said no ..he said he hasnt heard of anything like this before, i kept saying maybe its me, user error, but he said he doubts it, and came to this rare conclusion.
    i think this is what happened.. on the assembly line.. the guy who is at the stage of sealing that intake(fire) box, thought he sealed the box, maybe his phone rang or got texted on that certain swipe... he hung up after the 2 units he did and thought he finished them correctly..
    or maybe the seals dried thru the years and seasons. i really dont know, but im not mad just frustrated after installing 2 units that behave the same way..
    the store is kinda nice, im sure theyll offer me a 3rd unit, but i need a 2012 unit.
    the pelpro guy did say they making new units come 2013. not sure of any updates but at least if i wait i can get a more up to date unit. he also said try northern tool remanu units , they are tested and true..
    my volt meter is broken, and its going back withen a day or 2. just need to vac it for return.
  18. howardvw

    howardvw New Member

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    hey i also need an auto igniter, my 03 didnt have one, i want retro fit one. used if ok if anyone has one..?
  19. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    I can check on an ignitor for you if you PC (Private Conversation) me and send me your email.
  20. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello

    Well, I just popped in a new Accutron IV control board that actually says Accutron IV on the panel! It is a new batch! The Pelpro instructions do not get updated very much so we will have to do some testing here!

    Anyway, to prove a point I am using my IR gun for a heat comparison!

    The Pelpro is set to Heat Level 3 out of 4 with the 265 CFM room blower on the lowest setting 1 out of 5.
    201.2 Degrees F

    The Avalon Astoria is set to Heat Level 2 out of 6 with the 165 CFM room blower on 6 out of 6
    368.1 Degrees F

    That is quite a difference!

    Attached Files:

  21. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Hard to compare stoves like that, You'd need to get em both burning the same pounds per hour and figure the fan settings to get the CFM as close as possible. Bet the temps get much closer. Prolly need to compare exhaust temps as well.

    If you can get the voltage reading going to the fan. You might be able to get a setting that would better compare the cfm's of the monster blower to the smaller one. Or maybe install a similar cfm blower in the pelpro compared to the Avalon. Then run em at a similar pounds per hour feed rate.

    With the pelpros blower being 38% larger. you might be able to run the pelpro's blower 38% slower or the Avalon 38% faster to get a better comparion. But any time you increase the blower size you will loose heat from the convection if the heat exchanger can handle the extra volume of air being passed thru it.
  22. CT Pellet

    CT Pellet Minister of Fire

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    This, folks, is a man who knows his stuff. Anyone else impressed when they read this?
  23. howardvw

    howardvw New Member

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    something else to think about .
    so i popped a 07 burn pot in my 03 stove, the only thing i can see thats different is the side walls are about 2 inches taller then the 03. so i was thinking hey itll hold the pellets in for more burn. right..
    so.
    i put it in - immediatly i got sparking- my orig 03 pot does not spark.... what the heck..?
    the 07 pot is actually slightly wider, about one 8th on each side if centered., tighter fit than my 03.

    --- think about a tube maybe 2 feet long. fan blowing thru the tube, you measure at the out end the breeze is coming from, you get measurement A. if you pop holes in the side all over the tube, your not gonna get A again.. so this small 8th of a space closed now is making more air in the pot(making some sparks fly).

    im thinking about making another slot or more holes in the 07 pot to distribute more air. because im thinking no sparks means more solid of a burn.
    what do you think?

    o and with the 07 pot running right now i have to have my damper rod completely closed with feed rate 1.. small to no flame.
    with the 03 pot same feed rate- if i close the damper rod completely it would back up.
  24. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Unlike the Astoria digital control panel, you can run the Pelpro convection blower at a lower setting than the heat level and even turn it off! Pelpro tech support does not recommend turning the fan off! However for more heat they do recommend running the fan on the lowest setting. I finally got it in the workshop for testing last night. So it being a nice 24 degrees outside this morning I will be testing it today.

    The workshop was 24 Degrees F this morning and the Pelpro warmed it up to 75 Degrees in approx 45 mins with the convection fan on LOW. Not bad! The Pelpros are a really good stove for the money, I am just trying to figure them out! LOL

    The fan shutdown properly and it all works good!
  25. howardvw

    howardvw New Member

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    my house is about 1200 sq ft. on the lowest speed auger, 1 and 1/2 room fan speed, house is 65. temp outside averaged night and day about 25. i use bag every 30 hrs ide say..
    i think thats good- others???

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