Another visit from the propane man

[SlyFerret]

I'm really starting to develop a deep rooted hatred for the propane man.

I came home to find another bill stuck in the door. This time, the rate is up to $3.299/gal. A $525 bill, following the $1200 bill that I got in November.

I've gotta get this stove up and running. On the bright side, next year will be completely different.

-SF

 

[begreen]

I remember those days. If it's $3.30 in your neck of the woods I shudder to think what it is here. We're still nursing the tank fill from 2 years ago. Takes a long time now with just a cooktop running on it.

 

[hammmitc]

still waiting for my next bill, my last fill up was before Christmas for $325. Started the new insert on 12/24, still have 3/4 of a tank left and burning 24/7. The wife loves it, she is actually warm in the winter now.

 

[woodconvert]

THAT is precisely the reason i'm a staunch burner. I'm no control freak but THE one thing I can control is my heating costs. I burn one minimum order of propane per year (250 or 300 gal..water heater and cooking stove). All other utilities I am just a drone. I cannot control the cost of my phones or electricity (I could supplement electricity I suppose from various sources) nor the price of gasoline. Taking the price of heating a house out of a budget is something I take a great deal of pride in and it's rewarding on many levels.

 

[velvetfoot]

I got a propane delivery yesterday (for cooking).
$2.50/gallon.
This is vs ~a dollar more for fuel oil.
I can see why new houses around here use propane.

 

[eba1225]

I have had two visits from the oil man as I am on automatic delivery (based on the degree days of the period) but unfortunately for the oil man I have be taking only 1/3 of last years quantity. At $2.99/gal that has equated to $600 that stays in my pocket.

Needless to say I am loving my insert.

Next challenge, is getting the upstairs warmer.

 

[Andre B.]

I got a propane delivery yesterday (for cooking).
$2.50/gallon.
This is vs ~a dollar more for fuel oil.
I can see why new houses around here use propane.

??
If your propane is $2.50 a gallon and your oil is $3.50 a gallon the the oil is less expensive then the propane.
Heating oil has about 1.5 times the energy per gallon then propane does, so your oil would need to be over $3.75 to be more expensive.

 

[derbygreg]

I'm really starting to develop a deep rooted hatred for the propane man.

I came home to find another bill stuck in the door. This time, the rate is up to $3.299/gal. A $525 bill, following the $1200 bill that I got in November.

I've gotta get this stove up and running. On the bright side, next year will be completely different.

-SF

How is the install coming? We've been pm'ing since spring / summer.

 

[velvetfoot]

Yep. I somehow thought they were comparable. This is a good link that I should've used:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

 

[stonehouse]

My propane company pulled my tanks for not enough use. I only cook with it. The previous owner used it to heat a rental cottage on the property.
The company said I could have a smaller tank for cooking.
There would be a $120 per year equipment rental fee as well as a minimum usage fee if I didn't use enough.
I told them where to go then went to the RV store and bought a 40 pound tank filled and a 2 stage regulator for $145.
When it's empty I just take the tank back to the RV store to fill up.
I just can't believe they dropped me. I know I don't use much but you'd think they'd still want to sell it to me.

 

[Lasher]

I am waiting for the propane guy right now. Ran out of propane last night and my house is down to 51 degrees.

I have a Olympic insert sitting in the garage, waiting on a new coat of paint. But when I ordered my liner the other week, they sent me an 8 inch flex part when I ordered a 6 inch flex. Stinks, because I could have had the stove installed already (before snow last weekend) and been warm. Instead I am sitting here cold and waiting for the replacement part. I could kill the company, especially right now, but they are doing what they can to get the piece here asap.

Oh, last delievery was $3.19 a gallon and 300 gallons lasted a little over a month. That is with the house at 63! Cannot wait for some wood heat!

 

[begreen]

I got a propane delivery yesterday (for cooking).
$2.50/gallon.
This is vs ~a dollar more for fuel oil.
I can see why new houses around here use propane.

??
If your propane is $2.50 a gallon and your oil is $3.50 a gallon the the oil is less expensive then the propane.
Heating oil has about 1.5 times the energy per gallon then propane does, so your oil would need to be over $3.75 to be more expensive.

Correct, oil definitely has more energy, ~52% more btus/gal than propane.

Oil = 140,000 BTUs / gal
Propane = 91,600 BTUs / gal

 

[SlyFerret]

I used to keep it at 72 and say that as long as I could afford it, I'd keep it comfortable. Well... I can't afford it any more. I've been keeping the house at 64 so far this season. I bump it up to 70 if we're having company over, but other than that, it has been a little chilly.

We've been using an electric space heater in the bedroom at night. It helps to at least make that room comfortable.

Greg: My install is on hold until I get a call from Lowes to tell me my 30 degree offset elbows are in.

-SF

 

[trekker]

I too am looking at wood options. The truck came yesterday. 242 gallons for $835.

 

[pcampbell]

It is amazing what they can charge and get away with.

1 Gallon of LPG @ 3.26 is 90 something thousand BTU. We are paying $1.45 for a therm (100,000 BTU) of natural gas.

 

[kah68]

I got a propane delivery yesterday (for cooking).
$2.50/gallon.
This is vs ~a dollar more for fuel oil.
I can see why new houses around here use propane.

??
If your propane is $2.50 a gallon and your oil is $3.50 a gallon the the oil is less expensive then the propane.
Heating oil has about 1.5 times the energy per gallon then propane does, so your oil would need to be over $3.75 to be more expensive.

High efficientcy propane furnaces are upwards of 90+% where as H.E. Oil is around 70+%. Propane is also more highly regarded by the 'ENVIRO' crowd than oil. I remember in the 80's when electricity was cheap and everyone around here was running electric furnaces. They still do in Quebec since electricity is very cheap there.

 

[Tarmsolo60]

I got a propane delivery yesterday (for cooking).
$2.50/gallon.
This is vs ~a dollar more for fuel oil.
I can see why new houses around here use propane.

??
If your propane is $2.50 a gallon and your oil is $3.50 a gallon the the oil is less expensive then the propane.
Heating oil has about 1.5 times the energy per gallon then propane does, so your oil would need to be over $3.75 to be more expensive.

Correct, oil definitely has more energy, ~52% more btus/gal than propane.

Oil = 140,000 BTUs / gal
Propane = 91,600 BTUs / gal

I've never sat down and crunched the numbers but the efficiency of the unit along with fuel price should be factored in. Some of the newer propane units are in the 90's for efficency. They sense outdoor temp and modulate or the flame so you only use the btu's needed to heat the house(or two stage flame for hot air), are condensing which helps further ( the colder your return water temp the better), can be vented with pvc(no stainless steel chimney to buy), and if hydronic some models have a heat exchanger for your DHW (no hot water standby losses, not using DHW then your not heating DHW). and they are quiet.

not saying one is better than the other, just look at the unit efficiencies alon with fuel price when comparing. or even better BURN WOOD.

 

[kah68]

I am also taking out my propane fireplace, it is inefficeint, and my driveway is steep, the propane guys come after the snow is on the ground and cannont get their 2wd trucks up my drive. All the Oil guys in my area have 5 ton 4wd trucks so Oil is my back up when my insert is installed. BTW I've spent $ 1800.00 (CDN) so far this winter in Oil, they filled the tank from 1/3 in October.


Kirk

 

[begreen]

Correct, oil definitely has more energy, ~52% more btus/gal than propane.

Oil = 140,000 BTUs / gal
Propane = 91,600 BTUs / gal

I've never sat down and crunched the numbers but the efficiency of the unit along with fuel price should be factored in. Some of the newer propane units are in the 90's for efficency.

Our propane unit was 92% afue and was costing us over $3K to heat the house back in 2000. It would have been less, but duct loss and uninsulated crawlspace ate up a lot of heat. With heat pump and free wood, we were under $500 last year.

There are some very efficient oil units too. Monitor, Pinnacle, Dunkirk have some 95% efficient condensing boilers. Dornback, Adams has the same rating for condensing oil furnaces.

 

[Tarmsolo60]

I added wood after building my house and using oil for a couple years.

I was comparing a 92% propane boiler using $2.50/gal to a 84% oil boiler using $3.50/gal oil. I wasn't aware of there being such high efficiency oil units out there, thanks for pointing that out. I'll have to check them out just for some education. My wood boiler and stove don't have to worry about being replaced though, I'll be burning wood for a long time!

 

[swestall]

A couple of years ago we stopped the automatic delivery. We were getting oil delivered and weren't using any.Somehow they always seemed to be able to get 100+ gallons in there. After we stopped the deliveries and started calling (once a year) we got about 375 gallons in and they had to stop because the tanks were full....I wonder who was getting that other oil?

We've always heated with wood, 20+ years in this house. I've been going through about 4/5 cords a year all this time. (First a Defiant Encore CAT, then Defiant CAT then Neverburner, now the Hearthstone Mansfield).

With the new Mansfield, all of a sudden, we are burning about 1/2 the wood the Vermont Castings stoves used: I did not expect that benefit (other's had said it was more efficient). Now if we figure that, we are only using about 375 gallons a year for all the hot water and supplemental heat and now maybe 2 1/2 cords of wood. THAT IS A GOOD DEAL! (House is 2400+ SQ/FT with about 1/2 of that having a 17 foot cathedral ceiling. Also, we do have passive solar gain when the sun is out)

 

[Henz]

I will never forget the day when the oil man showed up on time. The previous winter we burned oil only..The first winter we were going through 220gal of oil a month! Basically one fillup a month, $3,300 for the winter..That fall we had our woodstove put in...I remember the day in November when the oil truck pulled up and the guy got out, looked up at my new outside chimney with smoke billowing out of it and the look on that guys face! priceless! Needless to say he spent more money in gas getting to my hosue than he sold me!

 

[SlyFerret]

While the price is crazy high, I don't really blame the local propane dealer. They've gotta make money too, and I know that their costs of skyrocketed.

-SF

 

[karl]

I hate propane. They strip our wonderful WV natural gas of hydocarbons to make the propane and then sell us the nasty leftover natural gas that barely meets the btu content requirements. I have a few friends who are lucky enough to have their own gas wells and judging from their gas ranges, I can tell you the pure stuff is potent.

 

[Matt_W]

When we built our house the upfront cost to install a gas line 1000-1100 feet to our house was expensive. Installation cost for propane was $75.
Boy our we paying for that now!
We too have a hill the propane trucks don't want to drive in the winter. After almost running out our first year they installed 2 1000 gallon tanks! Fill it once a year. Have to get on a budget plan to keep up with those costs.