Any electricians on the forum?

[Wallyworld]

UFER ground is now code and must be used if available. At least 20 ft? of #4 rebar embedded in concrete footer of foundation. No more ground rods if this available. In Mass you will not pass inspection if concrete embedded rebar is not used. If on a insulated slab, obviously this isn't going to work, I'd think if just a vapor barrier is used it wouldn't work. If you are hearing snapping from your panel, you should have already called your electrician, not waited a single day

 

[westom]

Sidebar: I just noticed a reference to Dynahoe. I only knew them for backhoes. Does Dynahoe still exist? Are their tractors as robust as their backhoes?

 

[colebrookman]

Dynahoe, don't know much, mine is around 1974 or so, with a loader and backhoe. Built like a tank, heavy like a tank and you can't kill it, so far. Just used on site here but the old timers loved them. There is a forum for them, I guess they were made all over the world at the end. I think mine was American made. I bought it from a friend to dig out tree stumps and as a back up plow. Old, but it works, just like me. Be safe.( Some day I'll try for a pic when my granddaughters come over and help me out).
Ed

 

[colebrookman]

Here's a pic,maybe.

 

[Later]

Any resolution?

 

[colebrookman]

Update, I asked a friend/electrician to check the system and install the whole house surge protector. That was a snap to install. He didn't find anything wrong or not to code but thought maybe by running the telephone wires through the surge protector may solve the problem, or not.
fbelec It does have two lights if operating, none if a problem and space for phone and tv wiring. Apparently you can also buy separate modules if they blow, saving ? the cost of buying a complete surge protector. Time will tell. Now I need a good thunderstorm/test.
Thanks again for the terrific feedback. See you after a good storm, I hope.
Be safe
Ed

 

[westom]

It does have two lights if operating, none if a problem and space for phone and tv wiring. Apparently you can also buy separate modules if they blow, saving ?

Those two lights (like all lights on protectors) only report one type of failure: protector was grossly undersized.

Best protection should already exist on TV cable. Best protection is a wire connected without any protector and as short as possible to earth (no sharp wire bends, etc). View the TV cable. Does it connect as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to the same earth ground used by the 'whole house' protector? If not, then protection is compromised. If yes, then TV cable has protection superior to what a protector might do.

Telephone wires cannot connect directly to earth. Federal regulations and other requirements have always required a protector where telco wires meet yours. If that protector also makes the short connection to earth, then you already have best telephone protection. IOW those additional modules would be nice – and only supplemental.

Do not confuse what an electrician is taught (the code). For example, a 200 watt radio transmitter may connect to a long wire antenna. Touch that wire in one spot to suffer a 100+ volt shock. Touch another part on the same wire to feel zero volts. Why two different voltages on the same wire? Electricians are not taught and need not understand those concepts. Same concepts also explain why a ground wire from the breaker box must be so short, not be inside metallic conduit, etc even though code says that is OK.

Expressions such as 'less than ten feet', no sharp wire bends, and single point earth ground define concepts that both meet and exceed what an electrician is taught.

Unfortunately, a protection system cannot be tested. That is what a first lightning strike will do.

 

[btuser]

My first thought was you were having a grounding conflict. Has anyone checked the the neutral service ground at the pole? If its a recent underground service then someone may have cut/damaged the ground at the pole. If its an underground service there should be a ring around the transformer with is bonded to the transformer pad and a ground rod sunk. A loose acorn (ground rod attachment) will give you more than 25 ohms, which is the maximum you're allowed before you have to sink another ground rod, but an extra ground rod is a lot cheaper than the meter it takes to measure ground impedance. Electricity is lazy, and will always take the easiest path. Something about your new ground is desireable to it. If its always the same circuits I'd check to make sure that the neutral and the ground are isolated from each other all the way to the service, and this includes any sub-panels along the way.

Sometimes CATV or phone will have different grounds and that can cause an issue but it doesn't happen as often as people think. If the ground was laid in the footing and bonded to the rebar that's a much better ground than you get from 2 8' ground rods 6' apart.

 

[colebrookman]

Thanks for your input WESTOM. We use a tv antena and always disconnect the wire coming into the house when a lighting storm is around, and it also is grounded to earth. So at least I know that the TV is not part of the problem. Course nothing these days is simple.
BTUSER yes I agree that was my first thought and gut feeling. When we built our three season room we put in an underground service, new meter and new panel as I mentioned. The transformer is on a different pole and I can see the ground line coming down the side. Looks okay to me "Something about your new ground is desirable to it." Yup, agree it's definitely a much better ground than before and the telephone ties into it. It seems making things better sometimes creates new problems. Oh and the ground was tied to the rebar at the cement footing and a cement wall poured over. I should say the snapping on one outlet line and at the new panel only happened once during a really bad storm but it really surprised me. We do get our share of nearby strikes but never affecting our house. We shall see if the surge protector works. No lightning so far. Thanks for you comments.
Ed

 

[Later]

I assume that you replaces the existing service entrance rather than installing a second. I could see where with two separate services there could be a difference of potential between the two services. It sounds that the UFER grounding system is much more effective than the traditional system and if part of the house was grounded with the old system there could be issues. What I am concerned about is it seems that you didn't have problems before the upgrade.

 

[colebrookman]

That's correct Retired Guy, I replaced all with new. Much better ground etc. Maybe this was only a one time happening, coincidence, super lightning, who knows. A bit unnerving and we all know the power of lightning. Maybe I don't need the surge protector, maybe it's a belt and suspenders, time will tell. Thanks from one retired guy to another. Okay went back to work per diem and love it. Be safe. Ed

 

[Later]

Work is a four letter word for me. 46 years was enough.

 

[colebrookman]

The Dynahoe moving some of our many boulders last Friday.
Ed