Anyone have one of these?

[yknotcarpentry]

My boiler has been declared dead! I am looking for a new furnace/boiler and am considering a pellet/corn one. Looking at an america's heat Model BM 620-9
100,000 BTU. it is used 3 years old. can anyone tell me anything about these systems. Even as much as where do you buy shelled corn (it burns pellets as well)
heres a link to thier website
http://www.americasheat.com/index.html

my house is 1650 sq' set up on fhw but I have no problems running duct as needed for this unit as its a furnace and not a boiler.

thanks

 

[imacman]

Why don't you just get a Harman PB-105? Corn is just as expensive as pellets in the NE.

 

[yknotcarpentry]

well I'm open to any make or model really, this model was just one that was available for sale, I did like the multi-fuel aspect of it so I may pick and choice depending on price etc... do you know how much the unit you suggested is? Here's another factor, just found out that particular unit would not work for me as it stands 4'5" and needs 32" clearance above from combustables, I only have 5'6" head room in my basement....

 

[hossthehermit]

well I'm open to any make or model really, this model was just one that was available for sale, I did like the multi-fuel aspect of it so I may pick and choice depending on price etc... do you know how much the unit you suggested is? Here's another factor, just found out that particular unit would not work for me as it stands 4'5" and needs 32" clearance above from combustables, I only have 5'6" head room in my basement....

Have you checked the St. Croix Revolution????

 

[espeaignnett]

Check out the Pinnacle PB150 from Evergreen Heat in Old Orchard. Their support is wonderful! We bought one last fall and are VERY happy! http://www.evergreenheat.com

 

[mjbrown]

well I'm open to any make or model really, this model was just one that was available for sale, I did like the multi-fuel aspect of it so I may pick and choice depending on price etc... do you know how much the unit you suggested is? Here's another factor, just found out that particular unit would not work for me as it stands 4'5" and needs 32" clearance above from combustables, I only have 5'6" head room in my basement....

if you refer to your basement as a flood trap, and it takes on water, i would be very leary about putting anthing like these stoves down there. i dont know how the circuit boards would like it...jmho. also, wouldnt all that moisture effect the corn or pellets you need down there to feed the stove?


mike

 

[wil lanfear]

well I'm open to any make or model really, this model was just one that was available for sale, I did like the multi-fuel aspect of it so I may pick and choice depending on price etc... do you know how much the unit you suggested is? Here's another factor, just found out that particular unit would not work for me as it stands 4'5" and needs 32" clearance above from combustables, I only have 5'6" head room in my basement....

If you look at the Harman PB105, get to the point that you are going to purchase, make sure it has the new ignition system, my understanding, it will fire in about 1/2 the time of the one like mine. It now has a igniter air pump added with a 450 watt igniter. (pg #34, 37)

http://www.harmanstoves.com/doc/pb105_R5.pdf

 

[yknotcarpentry]

Thanks guys, I will check out all of these. And yes, my basement will flood and has flooded if the sump pump stops due to power failure. I have to pumps one in a hole (an old school one so its not as big as it should be) and one that sits on the floor that monitors for water. the lat time I flooded was the first night of the big power outage last year. I woke up when the power first went out, and thought to my self oooo no the basement, I will just give it a bit to see if the power to comes back on (I in the past was always very good about this game) before I get the generator going. I lost that game and awoke at 6 am with 1 1/2' of water in my basement. At that time I had a 1500 w generator to run the pumps. After that power outage I learned the generator was not big enough to run my pumps and the house pellet stoves so I went out and bought a 5500w cont 7500w peak generator so I should be all set next time as long as I get my lazy but out of bed! Additiionally, I have a big barn that is high and dry that would and does serve as my pellet storage area.

O yeah alot of web sites on these units have "call for pricing" etc... Could some one just give me a ball park as to where they start? I am already Financially strapped and think 6G's for an oil boiler is not going to happen this year but if I'm going to save I might as well make it worth it....


Thanks

 

[jtakeman]

O yeah alot of web sites on these units have "call for pricing" etc... Could some one just give me a ball park as to where they start? I am already Financially strapped and think 6G's for an oil boiler is not going to happen this year but if I'm going to save I might as well make it worth it....


Thanks

You are probably looking at $6K for the boiler. I priced the Harmon last year for that. The forced air furnaces are around $4.5K or so. But then you need to duct the whole house.

How bad is the boiler? Can you just get by with a new burner this year???

jay

 

[wil lanfear]

well I'm open to any make or model really, this model was just one that was available for sale, I did like the multi-fuel aspect of it so I may pick and choice depending on price etc... do you know how much the unit you suggested is? Here's another factor, just found out that particular unit would not work for me as it stands 4'5" and needs 32" clearance above from combustables, I only have 5'6" head room in my basement....

The owners manual for the Harman PB105 boiler mentions, page # 7, what the minimum ceiling height needs to be. (66") As already been mentioned, this boiler is now a six thousand plus cost for just the boiler. Now, add in the installation cost or even the costs for materials only if you can do it yourself.

 

[yknotcarpentry]

well up to two years ago, I was on a service contract with an oil co. (will not metion names) I had a blue ribbon program which I paid $300 a year for like 4 years.... it included a yearly cleaning and maintnace ie is something goes wrong the will fix it for free and If they can't a new boiler will be installed..The last year I was on it with them I had some major issues. I got a new burner and pump. they also at this time told me that my fire box was rusting out and needed to be rebuilt. Upon cleaning it this year and looking inside there was so much build up inside that it was practically over the burner. Also removing the burner the burner insulation crumbled to the floor, the target wall insulation has a big hole in the middle of it and the insulation liner for the bottom of the chamber is completely dissinagrated. there is a major rust spot that is looking questionable on the side of the unit and the interior of the fire box is rusted out so bad that a fix of reinsulating might only work for a year or so and would cost a lot of money for this temp fix. To get the u shaped liner in the bottom of the chamber the unit has to be cracked open as it doesn't fit in any opening. Cracking a 20 year old rusted unit is probably not going to happen. So it is pretty much shot. In essence the oil compnay where they did replace some stuff on the outside didn't do a thing to repair the fire box..... I stopped well they kinda stopped using me at the end of that year due to this reason. It was march and my oil tank was running out just as I had planned becuase I wanted to move it and quite frankly my oil budget $ was all used up (oil was well over $3 at this time). I called them and told them I wanted to stop my automatic deliveries and not recieve any oil for the reaminfer of the year. Four days later Im pulling in my drive way and sure enough the oil guy is filling my tank, Im running screaming STOOOOPPPP. HE says O yeah well I have to stop my truck just ran out of oil. I ask him how much he put in and says just about 230G. I told him how I called to stop delivery and he said yeah I remember last time I talked to you, you mentioned you weren't going to get anymore and I thought it was strange that I got a special order slip for your house off of your normal delivery schedule.... I was furious, I called the oil company and ripped them a new a**, I told them to come pick it up which they said the couldn't do. I talked to them about how I can't pay them $ right away and it was going to take time and could I spread it out over the summer, I was told no problem. (this was about $725 in oil) So I was paying like $50 a month etc until june whenI start getting notices that my account is way past due, financce charges are being added and they are getting ready to report this to the credit burueas etc.... I called again and spoke to the same person. I was basically told I had to pay (which now with fees brought it to about $900. I paid the F er's and that ended that. LAst year when I called them for oil they said they weren't supplying me as I had a bad credit history. (They still supply my lp for my barn/shop though which is set up through my business????) ANY way, I HATE this company o yeah its Eastern Propane and oil avoid them in my book

 

[gbreda]

ANY way, I HATE this company o yeah its Eastern Propane and oil avoid them in my book

Wow. I just switched to Eastern this year as they had a good HHO pre-buy at the time. Hopefully your situation is a very unfortunate oversight by them. I took the bare minimum as I was 80% certain on a pellet stove when the pre buy offering came out last April. They have a clause in their pre buy this year where if you do not use the amount pre-bought then they charge .50/gal of unused amount. No more full credit on unused-another reason to go with minimum amount. After my pre-buy amount is used then I am contracted for rack plus pricing as delivered, which in their past history has been very good pricing compared to my previous supplier. Seems like the oil people have their ways over the past 5 or so years to keep adding protection for themselves while the consumer keeps getting less and less protection.

My P68 is in the basement as of last Monday, it is running this AM to take the chill out (OK I had to try it out too ;-) ), I will use this season to fine tune my heating system of pellet vs oil adding ducts and/or fans as necessary to use only a minimal amount of oil for hot water.

October is payment # 5 of 6 for my pre-buy. I will use the oil purchased this year and will keep an eye like a hawk on Eastern after that is done. Maybe a sign on my fill pipe will be in order.

 

[yknotcarpentry]

Well I am a carpenter and I am working on a friend of my wife's family right now. He is a lawyer and a retired superior court judge for NH. I thinks it may be hard since it was two years ago and the service contract has been voided at this point and It comes down to a he says she says etc...
a Raw deal if you ask me

Ill try to attach some pics

 

[jtakeman]

How old is the boiler?

They may blame that on your water quality. I am assuming you have well water.

If it were me I would forget the boiler and look at forced air unit myself. If you have cooper pipes to the radiators you cold sell it for scape to ofset the ducting cost's.

 

[yknotcarpentry]

I am not holding any oil this year, that was two seasons ago with the oil delivery problems... last year I went to a on call basis for oil (used the 235 g dumped unwnted by eastern had 100 g by borderline and 125 g through heating oil usa (460g total) Plus I burned 4 1/2 tons pellets.

I am or would consider a forced hot air furnace, I don't think it would be hard to run ducting, I have done it before. the price of scrap is on the rise to isn't it, that would be alot of copper!

and I am on public water...

 

[jtakeman]

Scrap is up and down. Sell on an up!

Stick that bigE in the basement and run the Englander up stairs for this year. Maybe your cheapest root for this year.

Generally you can get better deals for furnaces in the spring. I did a price compare from fall to spring and there was some savings to be had.

There definitely is a larger supply of pellet forced air than boilers. I priced the St. Croix Revolution st $4200.00 and the Endurance 50F at $3850.00. But they maybe on the small side for your install. But they are both multifueled units.

 

[jtakeman]

wet cellar aint good place for steel.

Pook's right. I forgot about that.

But a force air or pellet stove would help to dry it out some.

 

[yknotcarpentry]

The basement is realatively dry except when it floods. My sump pump does run every 10 min or so. so yes i get alot of water but as long as the system is working I am ok. its just power failures that get me when I am not home or sleeping. I just last wek installed an alarm. I store the pellets in a barn so they will remain dry.

I have thought of doing the big e in the basement but am concerned about heat on the 2nd floor.

My next thought was to place it on the front of house 3 season porch. imagine a 2 story box, four rooms each floor, addition off back runs 12 x 18 centered away from house ( where englander stove is at N wall away from main house) 3 season porch is on front of house 12' x 25' runs along front of house. I can then in both the eves of each addition build an insulated box and penetrate the walls of the 2nd story (rear- 2 bedroom front bath and laundry/master closet) My concern is the basement freezing up as the water pipes and electric hot water is down there. I thought of lining the chimney with 6" x35' ss insulated liner which I will need to line it if I get a new boiler anyway and hook up a temp woodstove.

Does this sound like a good idea to you guys? venting a pellets from the basement may be difficult going the side walls due to windows/doors, and if I do it in the masonry I need to line it with what 4"? which would set me up for a multifuel, just need to find one that has low clearances! (and in budget, which there is none this year unfortunaly) but If I have to put an oil system back in I would have to replace the liner.... yuck

 

[yknotcarpentry]

So what are you saying Getton, clean the chimney, throw a wood stove down there and go for it?

I did look up the chimney and it looks good, I haven't climbed the roof yet as its a steep one and I will reserve it until I have to or mayby even borrow a friends lift if neccesary.

I would be concerned of a quick creosote build up in a chimney that big, really, and if it need to be lined for a futuer furnace why not start the job, It would be $800-900 of the job assumed now. (I got a qoute for someone else to line it for me @ $2000) I think I will do it...

 

[jtakeman]

The chimney being lined is up to your local code. If you go the pellet root. You can do the same as what the inserts are using. SS flex pipe in the currant flue.

Before you consider the wood. If you are buying it cut/split. What is the local cost. Remember wood is more work and you'd be in the basement stoking it more than filling the Pellet stove's once a day fill!

 

[yknotcarpentry]

yes, I am so familiar with the wood routine as that was whatt the englander replaced. pellets are about $250-$299 here (ones that work well for me are $299 range) wood is about $250 cord plus I do alot of work with maple and oak in my shop so I literally have a scrap pile 5 feet high in my back yard already that I use for the fire pit out back. I also could try out boi bricks or a simular product I think they are $300 ton... Yes the chimney needs to be lined as far as code goes.... I know that and wouldn't want to violate it and also negate my homeowners insurance....But its tempting for a seasons temporary fix...

 

[jtakeman]

No matter what you do, It will cost you.

Being you primary source of heat should qualify you for home owners loan.

If you go with biofuel, You get a rebate on the taxes next year as long as the stove/furnace qualifies.

You would be more comfy with a furnace, Wood or pellet stove will keep you warm. But may just barely on the real cold parts of winter.

I feel for you, I'm doing OK with a pellet stove in the basement. But I know I would be better off with a furnace. Just can't swing the fee's to cover it.

Hope it all works out.

jay

 

[yknotcarpentry]

Thanks Jay,

Not sure we would qualify for any type of loan at this point. A few years ago before things went down hill we refied our house and paid off a ton od debt, I know not a good thing to do but we had to, mostly medical as my wife has Cancer and we had 15k in med bill alone from our first child (we are having another on oct 12!) That was when we had medical through my business as Im self employed. we paid about 1400 a month for it and it covered nothing (my wife was a private nanny at the time.) Now my wife is a child care teacher for a corp and we are hoping this medical is better (even at $450 a month) (we had to have an emergency c section with first so we a tied having another surgical procedure as the hospital will not allow natural birth after a c section was performed. Regarless of that I have watched my company go from yearly numbers of 175k to 35 k. We have been strapped to the wall for the last two years. This year has started off rough but I have recently started getting jobs which is matching my numbers year ago, so hopefully things will stay on the up and up and I can make real $ again.... It stinks having $ and then not,, We have blown thru every thing and have done some damage with our credit reports, heck I even applied to jobs at the home depot at one point but there are/ where no jobs to be found! As I still look even though I am gauranteed work through january. (as I have a lot of catch up to be done in bills) We even applied for aid but we still make to much to get it. I been wanting to sell the house and get something more affordable , less work but not sure if that even exists. Should have done it when times were good but now Im under it.

That why I figured two pellets and a wood stove, we do have stretches of sub zero here in maine I figure the more heat the better and if we all have to sleep downstairs so be it, we will be warm.

Thanks

 

[wil lanfear]

I am already Financially strapped and think 6G’s for an oil boiler is not going to happen this year but if I’m going to save I might as well make it worth it....

Thanks

Is this cost for a new oil boiler what you have been quoted to install or just a guess? The reason I asked is because this spring I installed a new oil boiler myself, old boiler was 33 years old and had a leak. Even though I have a pellet boiler I decided to replace the oil boiler because if I get to the point that I want to sell my home or I expire, I'm sure any banks giving a loan to anyone would require the oil boiler to be replaced. I did the replacement myself, I've installed many oil and wood boilers over the years, to me the costs of $6000 to just replace the boiler is rather high. The cost of my 3 section H.B. Smith/tankless heater was around $1700 plus the costs of some fittings, pipe, etc., less than $2000. I don't know the size boiler you would need but even a larger boiler would not be a heck of a lot more. You mention that you are a carpenter, you must know a plumber that would install it at a reasonable cost.

 

[jtakeman]

wil is right.

Check out the links:

Oil boiler

http://www.google.com/products?q=oi...a=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1

Oil furnace

http://www.google.com/products?hl=e...a=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1