Anyone switch back to an old school stove?

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yankeesouth

Member
Feb 9, 2011
61
Southwestern PA
I’ve been trying to educate myself on wood stoves…..newer EPA models v. pre-EPA models. Has anyone purchased and installed a new EPA stove only to find it did not perform like there old stove? Basically has anyone switch back to the old pre-EPA stoves after buying a new one? If so....what made you switch back?
 
I'm sure someone will chime in. The question here is why would you want a less efficient stove?
I want the most heat from the least amount of wood.
I would not want the old smoke dragon back!
 
Not interested...I'm very happy with both of my EPA certified stoves. Where I live installing a pre-EPA stove would be illegal anyway. Rick
 
I have two stoves. One is pre-EPA, the other a modern EPA stove/insert. I burn the EPA stove 24/7. I only burn the pre-EPA stove when it is too cold for my insert to maintain 70 degrees in the house.

The EPA stove is much more efficient, longer burns, and it has a nice size window for the entertainment value. If and when I have the funds I will upgrade the pre-EPA stove.

KaptJaq
 
I still burn in my old pre-EPA stove. At the back of the yard while I sit in a lawn chair with a brew in the evenings in Fall or Spring.
 
I suspect there may be a few who have or will switch back. It would the the typical story about the new stove not being able to burn the wood, which means they cut the wood and throw it into the stove without drying it. It is simply amazing how many folks just do not understand the need for dry wood. These are the same folks who complain about the stove, the chimney and creosote. It is extremely difficult to make them understand too.
 
Far less wood consumption = far less wood work
Nice view of the fire
Cleaner burning (air quality)
Less creosote (danger)
Less stack maintenance (sweeping)

These are all reasons why I wouldn't go back to a dragon.
 
I cannot imagine going back to my 1985 VC Resolute which is collecting dust in the basement. That stove was a creosote factory, a wood hog and a smoking polluter. It was a good stove in it's day, which was 26 years ago.
 
I am not sure why anyone would want to switch back to a more inefficient stove and spend more time and money cutting wood while polluting just so they can pollute the environment at a much higher rate.
 
The only time my pre-epa stove had an advantage over my modern stove is when I came home to a very cold house. That stove could heat this place to 70 from 55 degrees in about an hour. The new stove takes an hour to bring it from 65 to 70. However, with the new stove, I never come home to a house that is 55 degrees anymore, and I burn 1.5 fewer cords of wood, and my chimney is cleaner, and I'm not relighting a stove every evening after work.

Naw, I'm not going back at home.

For my intermittent use cinder block 2000 sq foot cabin with no insulation, I'll keep the pre-epa stoves as I need to chew through wood there in a short order to make the place comfortable when I want it.

pen
 
I can understand someone asking. If you come in here and do some reading you read a lot about the problems folks have with the new stoves. Many of which has to do with difficulty managing the heat output of the stove. Either too hot.. "overfiring" or difficult to start/cruise. I started burning in 79 with one of them older basic box stoves.. no cats, no combusters, or any of that stuff and it was really pretty easy to control the fire. It isn't quite as simple today. The stoves seem more finicky (run within a more narrow envelope of conditions.. chimney height and dimensions, temperature, wood type/age/dryness and such and require more maintenance.

Wood didn't need to be stone dry 2+ years old.

Getting good wood can be very difficult for some folks. I know lot's of guys that cut in in October to burn in December. I know that's nuts, but I have seen it done. Even people that can afford to buy their wood don't usually have the ability to find a good supplier, and even then, even really good "Seasoned Wood" that they charge $300 a cord for here in New England isn't a year old. Even if you want to buy good seasoned wood, you can't buy it. I cut some, but what I do is cut and buy 2 or 3 seasons ahead. So I'm burning wood I bought or cut (thank you Ice Storm) in 2009, but I'm still buying or cutting 3 new cord a year. But I don't think most folks have the money or willingness to do that. Most folks got enough of an issue to pay the rent every month, buy the groceries every month and put gas in the car every month. They're burning wood to try and save a few bucks. Just affording one of these new stoves can be a pretty big outlay for most folks. Especially when craigslist and such are loaded with the older stoves pretty damn cheap.

Sure the old ones belch some smoke.. but drive your car behind one of diesel buses or 12 or 18 wheelers and breathe a little bit of that black smoke, and it makes my non-EPA smoke dragon seem pretty damn insignificant and quaint in comparison.

I really like the new stoves and can't wait till I can get a new PE T5 or something sweet like that for my home to replace the monster in the living room. But I can certainly understand why someone is asking the question, especially if they have a good saw, some time on their hands and some access to firewood.
 
I will NEVER EVER go back to a non epa stove! My current stove though tough to set was worth the sweat and patience it is far more efficient.

Pete
 
Well thanks for the insight. Everyone brought up some good points for keeping with a newer stove.

Pen,
I think you are hinting around my needs for a stove. I have a 1200sqf cabin that I need to heat up fast. From all I have read on here it sounds like the od stoves heat up a lot faster. Is that true?
 
Certain models of the newer stoves will throw heat out quicker than others.
 
yankeesouth said:
Well thanks for the insight. Everyone brought up some good points for keeping with a newer stove.

Pen,
I think you are hinting around my needs for a stove. I have a 1200sqf cabin that I need to heat up fast. From all I have read on here it sounds like the od stoves heat up a lot faster. Is that true?

You can shove wood through them faster. I don't know your camp well, but at 1200 feet a stove rated a little larger than your needs that is EPA should get you hot and keep you there longer than what would be necessary for a normal 1200 ft home w/ constant occupancy. A med or larger stove can have a smaller fire in it. Another advantage of the EPA stoves is that most all have a less demands for clearance to combustibles.

How many heating days do you plan on being at this place? I think because of the size, if you have any insulation at all you have some options.

I'd be shopping Craig's list and seeing what good deals pop up. I bought my Englander 30 1 year used for 400 or 450. If you come across the right big box store, you can find them for that new. Sometimes the pre-epa stoves are listed for 500+. Shop around.

pen
 
I have an EPA stove in the house and an older pre-EPA stove out in my shop (and an outside stove) . I am constantly reminded how much better the EPA stove in the house works, especially when it comes to burn times. I don't find it takes any longer for it to heat up that the pre-EPA stove, in fact it seems to me I can get more heat out of it quicker. Perhaps that is true because the pre-EPA stove in the shop has a bigger fire box and takes longer to heat up.
I bought the pre-EPA stove and chimney used from my neighbor for $100, so the price was hard to beat. I do hope to replace it one day when I can afford it, with a small CAT stove. I've never had a CAT stove before so that might be the place to try one, and when I do I think the old smoke dragon will replace the outside stove, and the outside stove I have now will go to the metal salvage depot.
 
Thinking about it... We'll give this one a couple years though.

For me it comes down to the same reasons that my newest piece of farm equipment is from 1958, or why I prefer a 40 year old Onan to a modern standby generator. or why I prefer an Axe to a chainsaw (when I have the time)... I just LIKE old stuff better.
 
simple.serf said:
Thinking about it... We'll give this one a couple years though.

For me it comes down to the same reasons that my newest piece of farm equipment is from 1958, or why I prefer a 40 year old Onan to a modern standby generator. or why I prefer an Axe to a chainsaw (when I have the time)... I just LIKE old stuff better.

Stoves that are meant for heat and not just show have been like this for ~22 years.

BTW, I find beauty in many of the old things as well.

pen
 
pen said:
simple.serf said:
Thinking about it... We'll give this one a couple years though.

For me it comes down to the same reasons that my newest piece of farm equipment is from 1958, or why I prefer a 40 year old Onan to a modern standby generator. or why I prefer an Axe to a chainsaw (when I have the time)... I just LIKE old stuff better.

Stoves that are meant for heat and not just show have been like this for ~22 years.

BTW, I find beauty in many of the old things as well.

pen

Problem is, the stoves I like are crap now (VC). I fired an older Encore for a few weeks, and even with so-so wood that stove was AMAZING (cat was two years old at the time). I have found my tendency is to go for the lower smouldering burn after a 5-10 minute wide open startup. Hard habit to break, seeing as I still have stuff that is fired in this manner.

Cat stove the first time around probably would have been a better choice, but I may find after a couple of years that I do like this stove after all. I have been known to surprise myself before...
 
Not all pre-EPA stoves were equal, and it's a bit unfair to speak of them as if they are.

I use two stoves, one pre-EPA on the main floor and one EPA in my workspace in the basement. Both are really about ideal for the job. The pre-EPA Kent does a better job heating the upstairs than anything else I've had in here (and there have been quite a few), including the Quad which has the same size firebox, vanishingly small emissions numbers, very high efficiency ratings, and was better than it's predecessor by about the same amount as the Kent beats it by. And downstairs, the Nestor Martin is a complete pleasure to use every day, probably the easiest and most fun to use stove I've ever had. As one who loves to tinker with stoves, it's kinda odd feeling so settled in with them.
 
The first stove I bought new was back in the early 90's. It was a CDW federal style cat unit. Long story short, it was finicky and had a pretty steep learning curve. Was easy on the woodpile, tho. Heated two different places for me and did do ok.

Now, over 20 years later and mostly due to financial limitations, I burn an old Lopi from the 80's. Well built, good looking and excellent to cook on. Using certain firing techniques and the driest, deadest wood I can find I am getting fairly good results. It is a bit of a wood hog however. Not every person in this country is currently capable of plunking down a bunch of cash for the latest greatest wood burning appliance. I still get paid roughly what I was making 20 years ago, and I have noticed that certain things cost more now.

Anyone here that advocates a living wage for those willing to work?
 
I think the only reason someone might prefer a pre-epa is because they have a huge heat need. There is a limit to how much heat output the newer stoves can really put out. Of course they're less efficient. growing up we had an old homemade stove that would crank heat out like nobody's business. Probably 150,000 (+) Btu's per hour. No way I could ever have convinced him to spend $5000 on the huge hearthstone, or similar. So, the reasons I see are:

-cost
-if you need huge heat output
 
FirewoodMan said:
I think the only reason someone might prefer a pre-epa is because they have a huge heat need. There is a limit to how much heat output the newer stoves can really put out. Of course they're less efficient. growing up we had an old homemade stove that would crank heat out like nobody's business. Probably 150,000 (+) Btu's per hour. No way I could ever have convinced him to spend $5000 on the huge hearthstone, or similar. So, the reasons I see are:

-cost
-if you need huge heat output
I agree but wouldn't a new stove like the Buck 94 kick out a ton of heat, never have heard from anyone owning one but they look like a heat factory. One of the reasons my new stove wont kick out as much heat as the old one is is is smaller, Buck 94 has about the same size firebox as my old stove.
 
I can definitely see why some people like the old stoves - because they are easy to operate and many people are used to burning the way you burn with an old stove. Lots of people probably look forward to cutting wood in the fall or winter, hauling it into the house and tossing it in the old stove. You can burn green, wet, or punky wood in a big old stove. You can smoulder it all night long. Sure, it is inefficient, polluting, and I don't use one, but does everyone always change everything in their lives to be as efficient as possible? No! Lots of people don't want to hassle too much with the woodstove and don't want to think about it enough to learn a more efficient way to burn. I am not saying they are right, just pointing out what a lot of people do. I bet most people who own EPA-approved stoves burn them like the old stoves with wet wood and smouldering fires all night. Sadly not everyone spends way too much time thinking about wood stoves like we do.
 
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