Are Burners So Hot That No Dealers Will Budge From MSRP?

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Tfin said:
downeast said:
I am very active on Volvoforums.com. (Note that with my car purchase also, I went for the "best deal" and let my wallet do the talking... it cost a bit more, but is far, far ahead of anything produced locally, and while it is truly unfortunate, I have to look out for my family first.) Feel free to read back on my posts there, guaranteed that with hundreds of posts there is not one flamer.

ashburner

Just a quick point: from real world customer experiences, Volvos are not reliable, expensive to repair, have poor fuel consumption, do NOT have the safety of other cars, and are really Ford. Check out Consumer Reports' car ratings based on user experience. The days of Volvo safety have long past. Some examples of cars that are favored by users over the years for safety AND reliability : Toyota ( most made in the US), Honda ( Marysville, Ohio etc..), Subaru......oh yes, Stihl ( Virginia). It's all in black and white.
But Volvos are chic for the suburban crowd. %-P

That's why I drive a (GM) Saab. One of the highest safety ratings and high customer satisfaction........sorry, off topic.......my bad. :-S[/quote]

So we have gone from stoves and inserts to cars. hmm just another reason to dump this to the ass,ass, ash can. :roll:
 
Best way to go is to call a buddy in the "wholesale" business and have his factory authorized professionals install it! Best price.....professional install....I could not have done better if I purchased the unit on the internet and installed it myself! My cost for the entire deal including unit, pipe, and install was better than the MSRP just for the unit (as quoted to me by three local retail dealers!) I did the tear-out of the old ZC and pipe to save a few $ though too. Yeah...I am a cheap SOB!!
Kev
 
LEES WOOD-CO said:
Price gouging ,greed, playing on consumer sentiments,,,,, come on guys why don't you just admit you're PO'd about being between a rock and a hard place because you failed to prepare or see high home heating prices coming and you have to pay a little more than a guy who bought his early last spring. If stove prices increased 100% in a matter of months then I guess you would have a legit complaint but from what I have gathered from different posts the increases are more in the 15-30% range. Make your best deal where ever you can and be done with it.

Sales ,service and quality is the name of the game in business and when a businessman masters all three he can name a price that is over and beyond what his competitors charge to a certain extent and still grow his business because customers keep coming back for quality and service.The consumer is in control of price gouging and greed .You the consumer have every right to walk away and NOT buy. If you don't like his price ,buy elsewhere. I gaurantee that if oil remains around $100 there will be more increases before the first of the year due to all the "last minute loosers" looking for a stove just before the snow flys.

I'm with Lee on this. I'm in the real estate business, and work exclusively for myself and my family. I do a lot of development work. I deliver the best product, quality, and customer service in my area. However, I am also very expensive compared to my competitors.

I go to meetings with corporate clients and some are shocked at my prices. In some cases I am 50-75% more expensive. Some have no interest in paying that price. On the other hand, I've always found enough willing to pay my prices. I'd rather have less, but more profitable, business, than ALL the business. You don't like it? Either pay my price or buy someone else's products. I have 0 interest in serving every person who comes into the door, like it or not.

In the last year I had one of these guys go somewhere else. About a month after he moved in his space. He has 100 employees in his building. We'll arcing in one of the electrical boxes caught on fire and cost him $100,000 in direct damage plus 3 days of shut down.

You get what you pay for. I make no apologies for it.
 
mbcijim said:
LEES WOOD-CO said:
Price gouging ,greed, playing on consumer sentiments,,,,, come on guys why don't you just admit you're PO'd about being between a rock and a hard place because you failed to prepare or see high home heating prices coming and you have to pay a little more than a guy who bought his early last spring. If stove prices increased 100% in a matter of months then I guess you would have a legit complaint but from what I have gathered from different posts the increases are more in the 15-30% range. Make your best deal where ever you can and be done with it.
Sales ,service and quality is the name of the game in business and when a businessman masters all three he can name a price that is over and beyond what his competitors charge to a certain extent and still grow his business because customers keep coming back for quality and service.The consumer is in control of price gouging and greed .You the consumer have every right to walk away and NOT buy. If you don't like his price ,buy elsewhere. I gaurantee that if oil remains around $100 there will be more increases before the first of the year due to all the "last minute loosers" looking for a stove just before the snow flys.

I'm with Lee on this. I'm in the real estate business, and work exclusively for myself and my family. I do a lot of development work. I deliver the best product, quality, and customer service in my area. However, I am also very expensive compared to my competitors.
I go to meetings with corporate clients and some are shocked at my prices. In some cases I am 50-75% more expensive. Some have no interest in paying that price. On the other hand, I've always found enough willing to pay my prices. I'd rather have less, but more profitable, business, than ALL the business. You don't like it? Either pay my price or buy someone else's products. I have 0 interest in serving every person who comes into the door, like it or not.

In the last year I had one of these guys go somewhere else. About a month after he moved in his space. He has 100 employees in his building. We'll arcing in one of the electrical boxes caught on fire and cost him $100,000 in direct damage plus 3 days of shut down.

You get what you pay for. I make no apologies for it.

.....and again. Re-read.
It has everything "to do" with stoves and inserts: MBA 101 = value.
 
mbcijim said:
I'm with Lee on this. I'm in the real estate business, and work exclusively for myself and my family. I do a lot of development work. I deliver the best product, quality, and customer service in my area. However, I am also very expensive compared to my competitors.

I go to meetings with corporate clients and some are shocked at my prices. In some cases I am 50-75% more expensive. Some have no interest in paying that price. On the other hand, I've always found enough willing to pay my prices. I'd rather have less, but more profitable, business, than ALL the business. You don't like it? Either pay my price or buy someone else's products. I have 0 interest in serving every person who comes into the door, like it or not.

In the last year I had one of these guys go somewhere else. About a month after he moved in his space. He has 100 employees in his building. We'll arcing in one of the electrical boxes caught on fire and cost him $100,000 in direct damage plus 3 days of shut down.

You get what you pay for. I make no apologies for it.


At the risk of the continued wrath of the membership, I see the difference in philosophies and business practices that we're discussing. The responders are are speaking about providing 'Value' in your transactions, things like intellectual property, experience in the industry, superior performance and service and so on. Those transactions all should command top dollar. I agree 100% with this philosophy.

I was referring to commodity purchases, where I go to buy a "thing", and then leave the store, most likely not to return or need anything else from them in regard to that transaction. In a situation like that, given that I can buy the exact same "thing" at three different locations, and then leave a satisfied consumer, I will choose the cheapest. As a simple example, if I go to buy a car and find that three different dealers have the same make and model and options I want, I'll buy from the dealer where I can make the best deal and keep the difference in my pocket.

While many or most will disagree with me, I view the purchase of my next wood stove in the same category. I have already done my research. I know what I want. I am just going to go out and buy it. If I can get three quotes for the same exact stove, from the same exact factory, with the same exact delivery and warranty, then I would be foolish not to buy the least expensive one. To my way of thinking its a commodity (like when I bought my refrigerator, stove, microwave, hot tub, etc.) and will treat it just like that, a commodity purchase. If I need information on the operation of the unit down the road the store it was bought from, the manufacturer and online boards like this one are all resources to get questions answered.

Installation of the stove is another thing, and of course I will use a licensed contractor, with appropriate permits, and NOW, with the service provider, I am paying for his value-add. For that I gladly pay the premium. This includes his prompt and efficient service, his knowledge of the trade, his experience, his contacts, and his efficiency in installation, and safety practices, both in his work and in his installation methodologies. I did much the same when I had my concrete driveway installed, and selected the highest priced contractor based on all the above factors, and his quote was higher by a factor of 2x!!!

Hopefully this will help explain the arduous way in which I defend commodity purchases. Pay for the value-add when value add, experience, product and system knowledge, technical and safety skills are required, and pay commodity prices for commodities. In mbcijim's example, I am sure he charges a premium for his "services" (the high margin value-add), but when it's time to buy his supplies for the job he's going to look for the best deal every time.

To the point of the original thread... are burners so hot that no dealers will budge from MSRP, I still maintain that dealers holding firm to their price point is articificial and plays into the sentiments of the consumer, who of course can choose to walk away. I think we're all arguing the same point here.

The fact that's artificial is proven when I can find three different dealers and get the same exact product quoted as MSRP only and no way they can budge, while another offers a 9% discount, and yet a third offers a 15% discount. As the consumer, whether it was old pricing or excess inventory purchased some time ago that the vendor wants to move is absolutely immaterial to me as the purchaser. The point was, it pays to shop around, because while some vendors are unwilling to budge, there are others that will.

How anyone can infer that any of this discourse is "dealer-bashing" is a mystery to me.
 
Ashburner,

I agree with your thoughts on commodity purchasing. I just don't think your stove is a commodity. It has parts, that break. I hope that someone is willing to service you if it does. You know you won't get help from the online company. If someone services you despite purchasing it online then you will have done well and saved yourself some money. I prefer not to take that chance.

As to my hiring the cheapest (I prefer "cost effective") guy - I just did a $500k job with 15 +/- subcontracts. I got more than one price on 3 of them. On one of the 3 I hired the most expensive guy. Most of my trades I hire the guy I've worked with for a long time, and trust! At out service level, cost is not issue.
 
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