Are pellet techs needed?

[seaken]

Many on this forum are do-it-yourselfers. Some are not. But as pellet stove users do you think pellet techs are needed? What about central heat pellet burners? Are outside technicians needed?

If you answer in the affirmative, how are we supposed to field new technicians if I can't send out "newbies" because the user only accepts perfection and quick results and will not tolerate a technician who they think is "green" or "incompetent" or some other antagonistic label?

It's not easy to learn this stuff you know. And it's even harder to deal with difficult customers. And if I have to hire only the most accomplished of personalities and abilities before you accept them as your tech how will I ever get anyone hired and trained? I hear lots of complaints that techs don't know what they are doing or that dealers are dis-honest but I know of no way to field competent techs in this environment. It's like trying to send a sheep in to fix a wolf's pellet stove.

Perhaps a little less antagonism from the users is in order. Sure, there are bad dealers and bad techs. But don't we all need to figure out how to create good dealers and good techs? I think techs are needed. Maybe not for many on this forum, but most consumers need good techs. Seems to me you'll get better results if you don't antagonize the newbies.

 

[Delta-T]

pffft...do like I did...plug yourself into the construct and just upload the knowledge...easy peasy lemon squeezy...same way I learned kung fu (wushu would be more accurate) .

 

[mikefrommaine]

Yeah why would a customer want someone who knows what they are doing? It's not like a mistake could kill someone or burn down their house... Oh wait thats not true.

And why would I want to pay someone who doesn't know what they are doing? Seriously it's called training. I would prefer it be done before you send someone to my house.

 

[Xena]

Any Tech should know more than those of us on this forum.
Basic troubleshooting steps, etc. If they don't they have no
business out in the field alone. I suppose like any other
service field, they will need to be your sidekick for awhile
until you feel they have enough hands on under their belt
to go out into a customers home solo. I'm a self employed
computer repair tech and that's how I've always done it
when I bring on a new person. Obviously they need to be
in the real case scenarios to learn but they don't have to
be alone and they need a teacher who explains things not
someone who goes along doing the work.

 

[gbreda]

First of all, you are comparing the average burner to forum members: For the most part, not the same animal.

If you send a greenhorn to most members here, watch out: and rightfully so. people pay for the technician to know what they are doing. Do you charge less per hour for a green tech? Do you cut the labor time by 20-50 percect for the time that the greenhorn is learning on the customer stove? Probably not.

Not being antagonistic, but people want what they pay for.


How about the way we train a copier tech. They work in the shop with an experienced tech setting up new machines: That gives the basics.
Then they work in the shop with an experienced tech doing refurbs: That gives maintenance experience.
Then they are in the field with an experienced tech for several weeks to a month: That gives customer service and some troubleshooting.
Then they are on their own with access to the Service Manager and other techs as needed by phone or on site assistance.

A green tech takes a lot of training and cost $$ to get them on their own. Other than that, pay the salary of an experienced tech.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

i understand Seaken's point. the technicians here in my call center are virtually all trained by me. that said going from "training" to doing the job is still not easy for a new technician.

were i running an "in home" service company my plan would be to carry trainee techs on calls to help with "grunt work" and observe and learn in the field until i was comfortable with that person being able to handle the job working solo

 

[Shaw520]

So basically your telling us its ok to send an incompetent service man to my house and work on something that can potentially burn my house down. Guess this is why Ive learned to do things myself.

Its no different than any other profession,.. once must work/learn long and hard before becoming a professional.

 

[BrotherBart]

Do you pay rookies to fix your brakes Sean? Do you smile and buy them dinner if they screw it up?

Working beside an experienced tech in any field is the way to get it done.

 

[Delta-T]

what if I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express? that must count for something...no?

 

[glenc0322]

that is what apprentices are for to learn and observe if you are the one training them you are responsible to decide when they can go off on there own. should also have a test made up like take a working stove and cause a problem and see if they can trouble shoot the problem and correct it in a reasonable amount of time. also there first couple of calls should be with a technician to observe them before they go out on there own. And I agree If you are charging top dollar you should get quality service.

 

[343amc]

Nobody is born knowing everything. At least nobody I know of. You can take the "green tech" statement and apply it to any industry, although several have more potential liability issues to be concerned with.

In my industry the best techs are the ones that we have "home grown", meaning find someone as green as grass and teach him/her the way that things should be done, very similar to what gbreda mentioned above. It was the same way back when I turned wrenches for a living - the master mechanic watched my every move until I proved I was capable. The biggest issue lately seems to be finding someone who is willing to start out at the bottom and work their way up.

If I were the owner/manager of a hearth related service business, there is no way I'd send out a green tech on a job flying solo until they have proven themselves capable under the supervision of a more senior tech.

 

[jtakeman]

I am a tradesman(Journeyman Maintenance machinist). I learned my trade as an apprentice to a journeyman. This has worked for many many years. Yet in todays age it has lapsed. As AMC343 stated, Send the greenie out with the pro to learn the ropes. Start him off with installs as many need 2 poeple anyway. I am sure the senior tech would love to have a grunt to do the dirty work.

 

[wwert]

Agree with most of your sentiment, the problem with having a man in training with an experienced tech is the additional cost. No one wants to pay for a service call for 1 man let alone 2. This is a problem in many industries, certainly not exclusive to the hearth industry. There are no schools to send techs to so it is what it is. Blindly hiring anyone to work on anything is a big mistake. That is why hiring a company with an established reputation and history is so important. Do your homework and get references before you hire anyone.

 

[Mr. Spock]

pffft...do like I did...plug yourself into the construct and just upload the knowledge...easy peasy lemon squeezy...same way I learned kung fu (wushu would be more accurate) .

I have a Harman, it plugs into the construct.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

ROTFLMBFBAO.

This is a very old "problem".

If the party needing help is a place with a brick and mortar showroom you keep that trainee on a ball and chain back at the store learning the insides of each product you are currently selling and doing all of the showroom installs and back shop work.

Then they get to go along as grunts on installations learning how to get along with customers (hopefully with someone who has a clue about properly dealing with customers, maybe , please, maybe).

Then some time handling customer calls for service and scheduling service visits.

Then send them on the simple ones. Follow up with the customer after they have made the call, most places would attain high marks from the customer if things like this happened (hint, hint. hint).

Yes it can be expensive doing it in this manner but you have shop coverage, don't make your customers mad, the new person learns about the units you sell and hopefully about all of the principles of operation that allow them to work (this allows them to adapt to newer units faster).

I've trained a few techies over the decades and to tell the truth I didn't look for what they already knew but what they had adapted to in prior years. Some tech fields are subject to the soup of the day syndrome.

Now don't go laughing Delta-T.

 

[smwilliamson]

The customer only has a beef with a newbie when they pay for x and they get y. I deal with this issue CONSTANTLY cause this is what I do. You have to be able to absorb roughly 50k to get a newb up and out of apprenticeship...and there are no guarantees that it will work out long term. So, adjust your bill out rate to include at least 40% more than you need for one guy and ALWAYS be training. It's hard....I have seriously thought about starting a school to teach this stuff but I need 3 solid guys to work my company so I can do other things and I just cannot get there...this year was a total waste of training money...I could have put 40k in my pocket and instead I gave to someone that didn't work out.

 

[moey]

Same as any industry where a tech goes out in the field, you send the master out with the trainee until the trainee is a master. If you cant afford to do that then you probably should be in another business or need to cut something out.

I have my oil boiler serviced once a year ( not sure why based on the amount I burn but its cheap so I do it ) every year he has come with someone different.

 

[jgrz0610]

The premise that you will charge me extra for a guy that doesn't know what he's doing to watch another guy who does is annoying at best. To imply that is my responsibility to have a guy learn a skill whilst I pay for his training is ridiculous. Unfortunately your post comes off as pleading with the end user to absorb the cost and frustration of your company's growing pains for "the greater good." There is no greater good. In the end, if I am less antagonistic of a guy who is not properly trained or capable of resolving my issue the only one who benefits is your company. The paid service world is not one of a communal good. In the end the company providing the paid service benefits from my repeat business. If I am paying with my time and money directly to have you train an employee that will hopefully turn you a profit your business plan is flawed. My company charges $195/hr for me to be in a shop. I do not make $195 bucks an hour (I wish). My expenses don;t total that. The extra cost over my salary and expenses goes back to the business. Out of this, we absorb the cost of new hires and trainees that don;t work out. I've been training a guy for 3 weeks now and the customer gets billed for only my service since the new guy isn't capable of doing things on his own. The two of us together get a job done in the same amount of time that it would take one guy so there is no benefit to the customer of having both of us. If it was a large job and we were both being equally productive on different aspects that would be a different story. I know customers are jerks, I work with them all the time. My customers aren't just cold or upset that their oil burner is running. My customers are generally losing $200-$500 an hour while their machine is down. That kind of thing makes them upset. I understand the anger you have to deal with but it's not the customer's fault if your tech is incompetent or incapable of doing the job you are charging them for. In the end, if you don't have the ability to train a guy to make you money than you are destined to make the same income you have now. You have to spend money to make money. I don't have to spend money so you can make money. Not trying to be argumentative, just my opinion as a field service engineer and pellet owner. If I call in a "pro", I expect him to be able to fix the problem I couldn't. If he can't, why should I pay him?

 

[Lake Girl]

Seaken, Obviously had a rough day - the joy of business ownership...
Yes, you need to train new techs but not at the expense of your customers or you will kill your business anyway. All the suggestions on training noted above are valid. It's also a cost just like the electric bill or fuel in the truck. Our business suffered through broken equipment, errors that had to be corrected, etc. We even had to eat part of the cost of an re- install to the tune of $50,000 because an engineering rep called a wrong elevation that my husband pointed out and was ignored.

With your "apprentices",when you feel they are ready to solo, maybe check with the customer first to explain and give them a small discount on your normal hourly rate or only charge him what the job would cost if you had done it. Customer gets a bit of a break and your tech gets some experience.

Look at the bright side, if you need techs, your business is growing

 

[DexterDay]

Send your techs here. Make them read for 4 hrs a day, every day, over the Summer. They will be ready by Fall and be a Pro

There really is a ton of info here. And what I said above sounds like a smart @ss comment, but it does work. Even the average burner who knows Nothing, will walk away knowing the whole inside of there stove after one thread with us.

Most of us are those that like to get down and dirty. I have to know how Everything works. It's part of my anatomy. I yearn to learn more about how everything works.

Even a newbie should show some interest in his job? I love my job. I wish I could work on pellet stoves day in and day out. If I could make what I do now, working on stoves, I would be in 100%. But my area doesn't have the demand like the New England area.

 

[moey]

Whenever I did consulting we billed in 15 min increments at about $400 a hour. If there was a problem that took us longer then it should have we were up front about it and billed accordingly. Never had any complaints about it. There were several cases where something took me hours that could have taken 5 minutes I just made a wrong turn and went down a rat hole. It happens.

 

[PoolGuyinCT]

Many on this forum are do-it-yourselfers. Some are not. But as pellet stove users do you think pellet techs are needed? What about central heat pellet burners? Are outside technicians needed?

If you answer in the affirmative, how are we supposed to field new technicians if I can't send out "newbies" because the user only accepts perfection and quick results and will not tolerate a technician who they think is "green" or "incompetent" or some other antagonistic label?


It's not easy to learn this stuff you know. And it's even harder to deal with difficult customers. And if I have to hire only the most accomplished of personalities and abilities before you accept them as your tech how will I ever get anyone hired and trained? I hear lots of complaints that techs don't know what they are doing or that dealers are dis-honest but I know of no way to field competent techs in this environment. It's like trying to send a sheep in to fix a wolf's pellet stove.

Perhaps a little less antagonism from the users is in order. Sure, there are bad dealers and bad techs. But don't we all need to figure out how to create good dealers and good techs? I think techs are needed. Maybe not for many on this forum, but most consumers need good techs. Seems to me you'll get better results if you don't antagonize the newbies.

I'm sure ill catch some chit for this from the big brother hating liberals. Licensing, prerequisite and mandated continuing education... I have been at our state Capitol all week testifying and crafting such for my industry..

 

[ekarlis]

Let me add my two cents worth: I am a retired HVAC Tech. First of all troubleshooting, you troubleshoot from the easiest to the hardest. Check fuses first & etc. I cleaned a lot of messes from newbie tech's that were too proud to ask questions.
I agree with Jay, Smokey & Dex. There's nothing like a Senior Tech with expierence to rattle a Newbie Tech. I tried taking
some Newies under my wing, but they would not listen & thought they knew everything. Sound familar?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

training costs here are built into the budget granted im a manufacturer not a "service company" like my friend scott is, so its different between his business and mine in ways though i wouldnt think it would be massively different. finding a "pre-trained" technician isnt easy, so you have to "grow" your own. this is my preferrence anyway less bad habits to wean them off of.

now, if im sending out a trainee with a senior tech to a jobsite i would upon showing up make it clear when i greeted the customer that my helper is a trainee and that the rate being charged would not be affected by it ( if anything with the extra hands doing the "grunt work" the call may actually be shorter which would result in a lower cost to the customer) its not like im going to tear the whole thing down and give a seminar in someones living room then bill the customer for the added time.

as for a trainee not listening, ive had a couple they usually didnt work for me very long. im the teacher, questions are expected but im not going to argue and im not going to change the way i do things for a trainee's benefit. my way or highway, there's a lot of people who would like a job.

 

[Lake Girl]

I'm sure ill catch some chit for this from the big brother hating liberals. Licensing, prerequisite and mandated continuing education... I have been at our state Capitol all week testifying and crafting such for my industry..

Not a bad plan as long as the requirements are reasonable and not too onerous. Make sure provisions are made for those already in the field (challenge exam?). Will there be incentives for businesses that participate in the training?

Big brother hating liberals - you have me confused: Big brother hating = Republicans; liberals = Democrats