Are we past the low price point for pellets this year?

[Steve NH]

I just noticed that woodpellets.com just went up in price. (for delivery to my location anyways)

Do you think the bottom is already past?

Or will there be more - better deals to be had?

 

[gbreda]

I spoke with dave at Creative Biomass in Eliot, Maine on Monday. He was talking with his distributor about this and that although he could not say where the pricing will go, the best prices SHOULD be coming around April. That is also when they will be putting out a pre-buy. I don't think I would go along with a pre-buy of half now and half upon delivery, but I will be very interested in the price points for full delivery. Maybe try and gather several people and do a group buy to lower the price.

 

[defield]

Steve,

Woodpellets.com prices also went up for my area, BUT . . . . .

Received an e-mail from them yesterday saying that $20.00 in "pellet dollars" had been deposited in my account and for every customer I referred, another bunch of pellet dollars would be deposited.

Would rather just have a straight price without the bonus bucks incentives.

Ranger

 

[Lousyweather]

well, first of all, lets factor out of the equation "liquidation prices"...those being superspecial prices given for old, sitting stock......these prices dont follow the market, but rather, the logistical and financial issues of the retailer.

Like I said before, Spring "Prebuy" numbers are now hitting the retailers, and Im guessing that you will start to see lower numbers in late March to April. If you believe the manufacturers, these will be the lowest prices of the season. Cant guarantee that, but I dont think the risk is too bad in buying in March, April, May, if you can afford it. If the prices do drop later this year, for whatever reason, I dont think they will drop much, and certainly not precipitously....in other words, if you buy in the Spring, you probably arent going to get hurt......also, please understand that prices could go up (and they historically do) in the late summer and fall.

 

[slls]

I was told Corinth pellets have shut down operations, too many pellets on hand, so will be dropping prices.

 

[hossthehermit]

well, first of all, lets factor out of the equation "liquidation prices"...those being superspecial prices given for old, sitting stock......these prices dont follow the market, but rather, the logistical and financial issues of the retailer.

Like I said before, Spring "Prebuy" numbers are now hitting the retailers, and Im guessing that you will start to see lower numbers in late March to April. If you believe the manufacturers, these will be the lowest prices of the season. Cant guarantee that, but I dont think the risk is too bad in buying in March, April, May, if you can afford it. If the prices do drop later this year, for whatever reason, I dont think they will drop much, and certainly not precipitously....in other words, if you buy in the Spring, you probably arent going to get hurt......also, please understand that prices could go up (and they historically do) in the late summer and fall.

The "liquidation prices" comment raises an interesting point. If your dealer "liquidates", then offers pre - buy, are the pellets he gets in the fall just ones that have been sitting in the yard at the mill, just as old as the liquidation ones he sold in the spring? If Corinth, Athens, et al. have 500 ton of this years run left, they're gonna move them first, seems like.

 

[Lousyweather]

well, Hoss, what i really meant by "liquidation" was basically "old" pellets sitting at the retailer that he has yet to sell......not related at all to the manufacturer's pellets sitting at the mill. The reason I brought up liquidation is that I happen to live near a reload with quite alot of pellets sitting outdoors, where they have sat literally all winter, owned by a prominent pellet retailer.....I am guessing they will want to try to move them to bring in new product....in fact, I have been watching their prices, and they did lower them recently......but, it wouldnt be prudent of me to say who that seller is, or what thre product is.

 

[hossthehermit]

well, Hoss, what i really meant by "liquidation" was basically "old" pellets sitting at the retailer that he has yet to sell......not related at all to the manufacturer's pellets sitting at the mill. The reason I brought up liquidation is that I happen to live near a reload with quite alot of pellets sitting outdoors, where they have sat literally all winter, owned by a prominent pellet retailer.....I am guessing they will want to try to move them to bring in new product....in fact, I have been watching their prices, and they did lower them recently......but, it wouldnt be prudent of me to say who that seller is, or what thre product is.

I understand what you meant. MY point is that if mills have x ton left, sitting outside, what's the difference if they sat all winter at the dealer, at the the big wholesale distributer, or at the mill? If your "unnamed prominent pellet retailer" marks these down to move them, don't you think that the "NEW" ones he gets in are going to be the ones that sat at the mill all winter? Am I missing something here?

 

[mascoma]

Steve,

Woodpellets.com prices also went up for my area, BUT . . . . .

Received an e-mail from them yesterday saying that $20.00 in "pellet dollars" had been deposited in my account and for every customer I referred, another bunch of pellet dollars would be deposited.

Would rather just have a straight price without the bonus bucks incentives.

Ranger

These guys have lost my respect. They have had several "Sales" or price flucuations this year... until you look at the details.

Add $20 to price and send out $20 coupons?
Advertise free delivery and add $30 to price
Discount price and charge for delivery

Not to mention I have heard some questions about the quality of pellets they are pushing this year.

Just keep it simple, be honest, give us a quality product.

 

[trbinrat]

I talked to a retailer the other day and he said to expect prices to drop at least $20t and maybe as high as $35t He said that the warehouse that was delivering the pellets to him was full and that the producers were cutting back production.

I say let the prices fall!

 

[schoondog]

If pellet prices go up then HHO better sky rocket again, or you won't be selling any pellets. I think there will be a few good pellet producers who will make it and prosper at $250 a ton retail in this economy. If not I'll burn wood.

Schoondog

 

[Lousyweather]

well, Hoss, what i really meant by "liquidation" was basically "old" pellets sitting at the retailer that he has yet to sell......not related at all to the manufacturer's pellets sitting at the mill. The reason I brought up liquidation is that I happen to live near a reload with quite alot of pellets sitting outdoors, where they have sat literally all winter, owned by a prominent pellet retailer.....I am guessing they will want to try to move them to bring in new product....in fact, I have been watching their prices, and they did lower them recently......but, it wouldnt be prudent of me to say who that seller is, or what thre product is.

I understand what you meant. MY point is that if mills have x ton left, sitting outside, what's the difference if they sat all winter at the dealer, at the the big wholesale distributer, or at the mill? If your "unnamed prominent pellet retailer" marks these down to move them, don't you think that the "NEW" ones he gets in are going to be the ones that sat at the mill all winter? Am I missing something here?

yea, you are. There is somewhat of a disconnect between dealers and mills. The mills try to build inventory for spring summer, as they cant produce everything in the summer for immediate shipment. Also, if one dealer made a long postions late last year, and the demand wasnt what they figured it would be, they might be forced to sell at a lower price to move the product, so its isnt as ruined by the weather as a spring would bring (alot of rain), and, they have to pay for storage by the month, which makes those sitting pellets more expensive. Most mills store on-site, and dont have to pay storage fees for their "sitting" product

 

[jtakeman]

I really hope not. Will have to wait and see. But it looks like the better deals might be on the left-overs right now. I only need a ton and I am topped off. But 2-3(stuffed in) If there is an extreme deal found! Here piggy piggy!

 

[hossthehermit]

Ther are 4 places where they sit.
1. The manufacturer. Not sure about all, but I DO know from personal observation that SOME store theirs outside.
2. The big wholesalers, distributors, whatever, the guys with the big trucks that haul from the mills, and pile 'em up in big open places.
3. The retailers, the guys that the guys with the big trucks deliver to, where they pile 'em up in a big open spot.
4 . My house, your house, where we are all real picky about having fresh pellets and rush them right inside, gently, of course, cover them up inside our garages, basements, sheds, bedrooms,etc.

Why are prices so different? How do we know when our pellets were made, and how do we know how they've been stored????
AAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (My best Charlie Brown, and, yeah, I know it ain't very good)

 

[Stentor]

If you are asking me what the lowest price will be this year, as far as our pellets are concerned…it’s right now all BS aside. We learned our lesson. Nothing is stored outside anymore, which is why we spend the extra couple of bucks now to put EVERYTHING in a warehouse, be it spring, summer, fall or winter. I know who the retailer Lousyweather is referring too and it’s simply too easy to get ruined product having it sit out in the open with the weather being so moist this past year…it’s not worth the risk and the little money saved to keep repeating this as a supplier… I can say that most of the “deals” that have been available up to now in the past few months have had to do with “weathered/wet/damaged/aged/just doesn’t look that good stock which is why it had to be discounted.

So, at the risk of proving that I think slowly.....

BTU, are you saying that the Okanagans I intend to buy this April-May have been relatively sheltered while in your custody? They will have been shipped in a wrapped 65 bag unit and then broken down to 50 bag units by the retailer, so the only significant outdoor exposure if any would at the retailer's?

Wow, my question sounds formal!

 

[trbinrat]

As a consumer, everyone wants to see lower prices, but as a manufacture, with our margins razor thin and I mean razor thin at this point, it just doesn’t make sense to go lower…with the commitments we have already booked just in the last week since we announced our program for spring, we feel enough dealers and their customers are satisfied with our pricing levels (which are certainly not the lowest out there) to be able to meet the demand for an above average product that we feel we provide.

BTU
In this statement you say your the manufacture But in your signature you say distributor. Big deference. One produces and one delivers. There are many more factors in setting a price coming out of the factory than the setting of the price for the distribution.

Or are you both.

 

[hossthehermit]

As a consumer, everyone wants to see lower prices, but as a manufacture, with our margins razor thin and I mean razor thin at this point, it just doesn’t make sense to go lower…with the commitments we have already booked just in the last week since we announced our program for spring, we feel enough dealers and their customers are satisfied with our pricing levels (which are certainly not the lowest out there) to be able to meet the demand for an above average product that we feel we provide.

BTU
In this statement you say your the manufacture But in your signature you say distributor. Big deference. One produces and one delivers. There are many more factors in setting a price coming out of the factory than the setting of the price for the distribution.

Or are you both.

......never mind..... don't get involved.....mind your own bizness.......be nice, now, Hoss.........

 

[arcticcat1]

If you are asking me what the lowest price will be this year, as far as our pellets are concerned…it’s right now all BS aside. We learned our lesson. Nothing is stored outside anymore, which is why we spend the extra couple of bucks now to put EVERYTHING in a warehouse, be it spring, summer, fall or winter. I know who the retailer Lousyweather is referring too and it’s simply too easy to get ruined product having it sit out in the open with the weather being so moist this past year…it’s not worth the risk and the little money saved to keep repeating this as a supplier… I can say that most of the “deals” that have been available up to now in the past few months have had to do with “weathered/wet/damaged/aged/just doesn’t look that good stock which is why it had to be discounted.

So, at the risk of proving that I think slowly.....

BTU, are you saying that the Okanagans I intend to buy this April-May have been relatively sheltered while in your custody? They will have been shipped in a wrapped 65 bag unit and then broken down to 50 bag units by the retailer, so the only significant outdoor exposure if any would at the retailer's?

Wow, my question sounds formal!

Yes Senator that is what I am saying…….product gets made at the mill and loaded into a boxcar. Gets shipped to one of our two warehouses that service the New England market. Arrive at the warehouse where they are stored inside in a secured, enclosed, temperature controlled building till such a time as they are either picked up at the warehouse by the retailer or they are shipped to them via flatbed or covered van truck. At no time has the product been sitting for any length of time outside from the time they leave the mill to the time they get to the final retail establishment where you buy them.

We have been doing this in New England since late last spring for any new stock that has been shipped to that market. We were storing outside before but sometimes the product just got beat up more than we wanted, so we stopped doing that….which does cost just a little more to do it this way, but it has so paid off with a better looking and more presentable pallet of pellets that arrive at the dealers yard. Our damage claims have been reduced to almost nothing also.

Many of our clients do also store their pellets inside out of the elements and still others will run very lean inventories so they might be picking up stock every week or so, to be sure they are always getting and selling fresh stock. Because we shrink wrap the pallet, then put a pallet cover over all of it and then shrink wrap the whole pallet again, the pallet can be stored outside for a length of time without any problems, but we try to go that extra step to ensure a completely satisfactory product arrives at the retailer location or their clients driveway in perfect shape and something we are both proud to sell..... :cheese:

I just bought a 65 bag pallet this morning.It was raining fairly hard and I was hesitant to pull the trigger at first because I know that they had been sitting there(outside)for a while and they aren't giving them away up here in eastern Maine-$300 per ton.Is spoke with the dealer about it and he assured me that he would replace any damaged goods.After getting them home and when the rain had stopped,I began cutting away the plastic and was surprised to see three layers and every bag was dry as a bone.

 

[pelletdude]

We retail Okies and BTU is correct - pellets come from indoors at the reload and in our case are stored in our indoor climate controlled facility. The pellets arrive at the customer with only and hour or so outside. We even try to not deliver on rainy days. As most of you know water and moisture are a pellets worst friend.

As for pellet prices I don't see much lower pricing for the really top brands. Maybe $5 or $10 hear and there.

 

[trbinrat]

As a consumer, everyone wants to see lower prices, but as a manufacture, with our margins razor thin and I mean razor thin at this point, it just doesn’t make sense to go lower…with the commitments we have already booked just in the last week since we announced our program for spring, we feel enough dealers and their customers are satisfied with our pricing levels (which are certainly not the lowest out there) to be able to meet the demand for an above average product that we feel we provide.

BTU
In this statement you say your the manufacture But in your signature you say distributor. Big deference. One produces and one delivers. There are many more factors in setting a price coming out of the factory than the setting of the price for the distribution.

Or are you both.

......never mind..... don't get involved.....mind your own bizness.......be nice, now, Hoss.........

And this means what and was this directed at me as I was merely asking a question based on what I read in the posts.

 

[hossthehermit]

As a consumer, everyone wants to see lower prices, but as a manufacture, with our margins razor thin and I mean razor thin at this point, it just doesn’t make sense to go lower…with the commitments we have already booked just in the last week since we announced our program for spring, we feel enough dealers and their customers are satisfied with our pricing levels (which are certainly not the lowest out there) to be able to meet the demand for an above average product that we feel we provide.

BTU
In this statement you say your the manufacture But in your signature you say distributor. Big deference. One produces and one delivers. There are many more factors in setting a price coming out of the factory than the setting of the price for the distribution.

Or are you both.

......never mind..... don't get involved.....mind your own bizness.......be nice, now, Hoss.........

And this means what and was this directed at me as I was merely asking a question based on what I read in the posts.

Sorry, just talkin' to myself