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Argument with the wood guy -- Need opinions

Post in 'The Wood Shed' started by dave11, Aug 6, 2009.

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  1. gzecc

    gzecc Minister of Fire

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    Actually Stee, thats exactly what the states responsibility should be - weights and measures. Do you expect 1 gallon at the gas station when you buy gas?
    Would you just accept 2/3's of a gallon for a gallon's price?

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  2. stee6043

    stee6043 Minister of Fire

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    I guess I tend to believe it's my responsibility to make sure I'm being treated fairly. Not yours, not "ours". Shame on me if I get fooled. I had a choice of where to buy firewood. I made a bad decision. End of story (for me). It seems that this type of opinion puts me very much in the minority these days. But I'm okay with that.
  3. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    The way I see it there are three options available to you.

    Option A: Get a partial refund for the undelivered wood . . . sound as if this is unlikely to happen.

    Option B: Get more wood from the dealer to make up the full cord . . . again, sounds unlikely to happen.

    Option C: Call them up and tell them to pick up their wood and have them refund your check.


    It seems as though the State Law is pretty clear with the definition of a cord of wood -- 128 cubic feet, stacked parallel (not cross-laid) -- a very clear definition. If this dealer is not willing to abide by the definition then they need to refund you the undelivered portion of wood or pick up their wood.

    It does sound as if you're giving them the benefit of the doubt as they are young and may have learned this practice from another . . . but it still doesn't make it right.

    For me, deciding whether to make that call to the State and/or have them pick up the wood would all hinge on just how badly I need the wood and how good the wood is. If the wood is truly good wood and your need for wood is great you might want to push back a bit and go to the next level of getting the State involved . . . realizing of course that down the road this dealer may opt to not do any further business with you.

    On the other hand, if you have ready access to wood that is just as good, at similar prices and can be assured it is a true cord as stated by state law from another dealer, you may simply want to call the first dealer up and have them pick up their wood . . . although me being me, I would make sure the wood was in the same state it was when it was delivered . . . if it was in a big pile it would be in a big pile when they came to pick it up. The drawback with this second option is there is a chance you may not get as good wood, you may still be shorted and you may not be able to get any wood from any other dealer at this point . . .

    I should mention that there is Option D as mentioned by Stee . . . chalk this up as a life lesson, give the guys the benefit of the doubt and either return the wood with nothing more said or done or keep the wood and just not do business with them in the future.
  4. wendell

    wendell Minister of Fire

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    I know we all love heating our homes with wood but another idea I would like to toss into the mix is that if your wood costs $250 for < 2/3rds a cord or $475 for a full cord, do you even want wood to be your primary source of heat? Living in the suburbs, I'm assuming you have natural gas and if so, burning wood is going to cost you a lot more. I know when I got my stove and had to buy my first cord that first winter, I realized that at the $240 I paid, my wood cost me almost exactly what I spent on natural gas. It was the last cord I bought.
  5. Delta-T

    Delta-T Minister of Fire

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    I can appreciate this view Stee, but when you purchase goods and services, its sort of expected that you actually get what you agree to buy.I've been disappointed with quality before, and thats my bad for not doing enough research about a product or servive, this is different. Being a little criminal, is still criminal. Taking advantage of people is still.....That being said, at least the OP is not out bunches of cash or a roof or something. You can do nothing and perpetuate the problem by basically passing on the unethical business to others or you can be proactive and get the USDA (who I believe is the enforcing body for these things) to teach these "kids" how to measure and sell wood. Heaven forbid these guys are just ignorant and try to sell someone 10 cord and get slapped with some rediculous lawsuit, or worse, some crackhead who flips out and shoots somone (i know not likely, but weird stuff happens).
  6. madrone

    madrone Minister of Fire

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    So, instead of helping your neighbors out, you'd let the guys rip them off, one by one. It's easier to make a good choice if you have all the information. If no one points out that they're crooks, how can anyone else steer clear of them? I'm all for personal responsibility, but I can't understand this thinking. If thieves are breaking into a neighbor's house, do you just cluck your tongue and mutter that they should have installed better locks? Are we all just living side by side and trying to avoid each other?

    That said, I suppose it's a matter of how much it's worth your trouble. Personally, I couldn't afford a $250 partial cord. I'd either push for the rest of the wood, or money, or just let them take it back (as long as they refunded in cash,) but I couldn't just keep it as is. Notifying the state would be last on my list, since it sounds like they're mostly just ignorant, but I'd sure point out the law every time I spoke to them. There's got to be somebody else around for this year, and I bet you can scrounge up next year's wood yourself.
  7. northwinds

    northwinds Minister of Fire

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    Full refund. Come get the wood.

    Depending on how that goes, decide whether to report them to weights and measures and/or
    better business bureau.
  8. kingfisher

    kingfisher New Member

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    Plan and simply don't deal with the crook anymore
  9. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    Were you home when they delivered it?
  10. Henz

    Henz New Member

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    around here, the reputable wood dealers would make it right. and to tell you the truth, the guy I used to use before I started just doing my own would tell me the price per cord and pay him half of the price. I would then stack it. and if he and I agreed that it was stacked correctly, and that there was a cord there I would give him the rest of the money. If there wasent a cord there he would bring more until there was. but having said that, trust goes both ways, the dealer has to trust that you arent hiding some of the wood someplace else!

    I would say that you need to find another dealer and start a good sound relationship with them acknowledging that you will be a good customer for many years to come
  11. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

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    Holy crap. I just re-read the OP. Even if they delivered a full cord $250 is just way too much. The stacking, the storage, the mess. . . for that kind of lucre I'd just use my electric heat.
  12. Henz

    Henz New Member

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    I agree, that is alot of money. I am under the impression that it is dry and ready to burn? even around here, with plenty of hardwood, split and delivered dry is $200-$220/cord
  13. JBinKC

    JBinKC Feeling the Heat

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    I would definitely log the complaint on pawam.org
  14. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    They make it right or you get your money back. 250 for 2 face cords is crazy to me. I wouldn't pay that for 2 cords, of course living in Michigan where we have a lot of wood spoils you.
  15. Henz

    Henz New Member

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    wait a minute. two face cords..thats not even a full cord of wood. its three face cord per full cord...
  16. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    Here close to a "big city" (Pittsburgh) we pay more for everything. $250 per cord seasoned is the going rate. Of course, natural gas is $14 per MCF, so it's not exactly a cheap alternative, but wood still ends up being cheaper.

    Even so, I mainly heat with gas. I put a woodstove in this year into my basement workshop, and ordered this cord of wood.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Did the guy provide you with the detailed receipt required by PA law?
  18. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    Nope. I had to insist they write one. It does list their company name and phone number but no address. It does list the sales amount as a full cord, along with the price.
  19. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    Some follow-up, for anyone still reading:

    Got call from the guy again. He has changed his mind, and has decided that when I gave him the check, I approved the purchase as-is, and so they will do nothing further.

    I told him I'd have no choice then but to call the State of PA, which regulates the sale of firewood. He laughed and said" "And what are they gonna do?"
  20. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    They're going to make him "make it right" that's what they're going to do. I've read similar situations on here several times and it all seems to work out. Of course it's a big hassle for you.
  21. karri0n

    karri0n New Member

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    Personally, I'd be willing to take the loss if it's actually DRY wood. No one around here will give you dry wood, and if it's the same going rate for a cord of the nasty wet stuff normally sold as seasoned, I'll pay it for knowing it's not going to take another year or more before the stuff is dry. They DID rip you, but the fact that they are willing to take the stuff back is something. If there's really no other suppliers in your area, you may be screwed either way. Test it with a MC meter and see if it's 20% or lower.

    If, on the other hand, it's not fully seasoned, and there's other suppliers available, I'd put a split thru the farking windshield of the truck when they come back to take it.


    edit: Just did the math and they shorted you more than I thought originally. Take it up with state of PA.
  22. zzr7ky

    zzr7ky Minister of Fire

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    I was in the "let him come and get it"... live & let live camp until I saw "“And what are they gonna do?..."

    That attidude I'm inclined to reply "Well you could make good on the deal or we will both find out.'

    This guy seems like he's very used to and comfortable ripping folks off. It rubs me the wrong way.

    ATB,
    Mike
  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Well, a fine up to $10,000 for one thing.
  24. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    heck i would deliver it back to him for the same price and alls good!
  25. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    Well, but in the end, can't he just fall back on -- "Gee your Honor, I did leave him a full cord. He must have moved/hidden/burned a third of it?"
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