Ash management

[hoot]

I read some of you use a barrel to dump your ashes in. I put one out the back door. Problem is when I dump the bucket in there it plumes all over blowing into the house. Any tricks here? I guess I'll have to move it farther away.

 

[ScotO]

you definately want it away from your house as well as any flammables. Fly ash (aka the dusty stuff) is so light that as soon as you disturb the surrondings it is up and all over the place. So you will have a hard time not making a mess, you could consider laying the bucket or ash pan over slowly right above the ash that is in the barrel and sliding it out slowly (instead of "dumping" it) as to not disturb the fly ash too much. But you definately need to keep your ash barrel away from your house.

 

[pen]

+1 to scotty's suggestions, plus make sure that barrel has a lid.

pen

 

[ScotO]

+1 to scotty's suggestions, plus make sure that barrel has a lid.

pen

AMEN Pen....that is perhaps the most important thing. A lid....

 

[Backwoods Savage]

you definately want it away from your house as well as any flammables. Fly ash (aka the dusty stuff) is so light that as soon as you disturb the surrondings it is up and all over the place. So you will have a hard time not making a mess, you could consider laying the bucket or ash pan over slowly right above the ash that is in the barrel and sliding it out slowly (instead of "dumping" it) as to not disturb the fly ash too much. But you definately need to keep your ash barrel away from your house.

Right Scotty. That is the key to not making a mess. Not only when putting ashes into a barrel but also at the stove. You can empty ashes without the dust problem if you do it right.

 

[begreen]

I use a 10 gallon, galvanized can with a snug lid. It looks like a small garbage can and works very well. They are about $10 a the local hardware store.

 

[Ken45]

I read some of you use a barrel to dump your ashes in. I put one out the back door. Problem is when I dump the bucket in there it plumes all over blowing into the house. Any tricks here?

Close the door?

 

[Corey]

I read some of you use a barrel to dump your ashes in. I put one out the back door. Problem is when I dump the bucket in there it plumes all over blowing into the house. Any tricks here?

Close the door?

+1 This ain't rocket science...just plain old fizziks.

 

[swestall]

I use a 10 gallon, galvanized can with a snug lid. It looks like a small garbage can and works very well. They are about $10 a the local hardware store.

o
Me too, I put it in a safe place on the cement basement floor away from anything else and let it cool for a few days; then I dump the dead ashes before I remove the hot ones again. Never dump hot ash anywhere because you just don't know what might happen and it's too late when it does.,

 

[Martin Strand III]

There are ash "dustless" vacuums that will handle your ash but not your coals.
They have a fire resistant metal flex hose and "special" ash filter.
All for a few hundred bucks.
Putting hot ashes with glowing coals in such a device is NG.

Also NG is putting glowing coals in a galvanized metal can, even with a lid.
Hot coals with galvanized metal = zinc vapor = especially NG.
- This may appeal, however, to those who like to breath a little poison; i.e.,
the smell of wood smoke. - my sarcasm - do not do it. Zinc vapor is very
toxic.

Essentials for handling your ash:
1. Small non-galvanized metal shovel
2. Enameled metal ash bucket with a tight
lid and a double metal bottom
3. Broom
4. Dust pan
5. Shop Vac - to keep her happy
6. Doubled plastic bags for cold ash disposal
or, dump'em in your garden to "sweeten" the
soil or use'em on driveway ice for good non-skid.

If you dump your ash, keep your face, nose
and pie hole up wind.

Fine ash dust is unavoidable. Know this up front.
If you are concerned about breathing the stuff,
wear a mask you can get at a hardware store.

Chronic lungers, asthmatics, those with pulmonary
disease shouldn't be burning to begin with (move to
south Florida to keep warm).

Aye,
Marty

 

[Ken45]

6. Doubled plastic bags for cold ash disposal

Cringe.....

Yes, that's fine for truly COLD ash disposal, but I would wait at least a week....and then still be worried. Coals insulated in a thick layer of ash can stay warm for a LONG time.

Sure, it's probably safe after several days....probably.....

I just wouldn't chance it, stick with a metal container and dump them on the garden or something. DO NOT put out possibly warm ashes for the garbage man. Garbage trucks on fire are no fun.

Ken

 

[Battenkiller]

Also NG is putting glowing coals in a galvanized metal can, even with a lid.
Hot coals with galvanized metal = zinc vapor = especially NG.
- This may appeal, however, to those who like to breath a little poison; i.e., the smell of wood smoke. - my sarcasm - do not do it. Zinc vapor is very toxic.

I've welded plenty of galvy because it's so easy to scrounge. I've never gotten sick because I hold my breath and keep the breeze to my back. I used to be plenty worried about, though, so I looked up the toxicology of zinc fumes and was surprised to find it's not harmful to you... even if it does make you feel pretty sick for awhile.

Even so, I think BG's fine with his galvy ash bucket. That is, unless he get the thing glowing orange. Boiling point of zinc is 907°C.

 

[ScotO]

Also NG is putting glowing coals in a galvanized metal can, even with a lid.
Hot coals with galvanized metal = zinc vapor = especially NG.
- This may appeal, however, to those who like to breath a little poison; i.e., the smell of wood smoke. - my sarcasm - do not do it. Zinc vapor is very toxic.

I've welded plenty of galvy because it's so easy to scrounge. I've never gotten sick because I hold my breath and keep the breeze to my back. I used to be plenty worried about, though, so I looked up the toxicology of zinc fumes and was surprised to find it's not harmful to you... even if it does make you feel pretty sick for awhile.

Even so, I think BG's fine with his galvy ash bucket. That is, unless he get the thing glowing orange. Boiling point of zinc is 907°C.

I use a galvanized bucket too. and I, too, have welded lots of galvanized over the years. Now I don't want to breath it in a confined space or for long periods of time, but I think incidental contact with it is not going to kill you. I work in a locomotive overhaul shop and I can tell you I breath a lot worse stuff than that galvanized.........

 

[ScotO]

the stuff that has every body concerned is the white 'whispies' that float in the air when welding galvy. It takes extreme heat for that zinc to vaporize, and it releases off of the metal as a white, almost weightless whisp....floats around in the air easily. I've never had that vaporization occur while loading ashes in my galvanized bucket. Like battenkiller said, it takes some extreme temps to get the zinc to vaporize. You should be safe, just don't sit there and 'huff da bucket'....

 

[Martin Strand III]

6. Doubled plastic bags for cold ash disposal

Cringe.....
Yes, that's fine for truly COLD ash disposal, but I would wait at least a week....and then still be worried. Coals insulated in a thick layer of ash can stay warm for a LONG time.
Sure, it's probably safe after several days....probably.....
I just wouldn't chance it, stick with a metal container and dump them on the garden or something. DO NOT put out possibly warm ashes for the garbage man. Garbage trucks on fire are no fun. Ken

Cold means cold. Enough on that.
I use empty dog food bags.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Martin Strand III]

Also NG is putting glowing coals in a galvanized metal can, even with a lid.
Hot coals with galvanized metal = zinc vapor = especially NG.
- This may appeal, however, to those who like to breath a little poison; i.e., the smell of wood smoke. - my sarcasm - do not do it. Zinc vapor is very toxic.

I've welded plenty of galvy because it's so easy to scrounge. I've never gotten sick because I hold my breath and keep the breeze to my back. I used to be plenty worried about, though, so I looked up the toxicology of zinc fumes and was surprised to find it's not harmful to you... even if it does make you feel pretty sick for awhile.

Even so, I think BG's fine with his galvy ash bucket. That is, unless he get the thing glowing orange. Boiling point of zinc is 907°C.

The logic here is easy to follow. There is none.

Here's a good case to take in about Zinc Metal Fume Fever - Just ask Jim -"paw-Paw" Wilson.
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo

But then, there are those who believe breathing just a little bit of poison is just fine...

Aye,
Marty

 

[Martin Strand III]

More reading on zinc: it is bad stuff but symptoms and mortality seem to be dose related.

Again, how much poison can you take?

Here's what OSHA has to say about the stuff.


HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION

* Routes of Exposure
Exposure to zinc chloride fume can occur via inhalation and eye or skin contact.
* Summary of toxicology
1. Effects on Animals: No data exist on the acute or chronic toxicity of zinc chloride fume in experimental animals.

2. Effects on Humans: Zinc chloride fume is an irritant of the eyes, skin, mucous membranes, and lungs in humans. Exposure to a fume concentration of 120 mg/m(3) for 2 minutes produced irritation of the nose, throat, and chest; exposure to an 80-mg/m(3) concentration for 2 minutes caused nausea and occasional coughing [Sittig 1985, p. 939]. In a group of 70 workers exposed to an unspecified concentration of zinc chloride fume that had been accidentally released from a smoke generator, 10 developed severe pulmonary edema and died immediately or within a few hours of the exposure. Twenty-five of these workers developed bronchopneumonia, respiratory inflammation, conjunctivitis, irritation of the nose and throat, cough, shortness of breath, chest tightness and chest pain, nausea, and epigastric pain [Proctor, Hughes, and Fischman 1988, p. 514]. One fatal case of acute interstitial pulmonary fibrosis has been attributed to exposure to zinc chloride fume; this death occurred after a firefighter accidentally inhaled an unspecified amount of this substance. The patient complained of nausea, sore throat, chest tightness, and fever; within 18 days, he died of advanced pulmonary fibrosis and acute cor pulmonale [ACGIH 1986, p. 643; Proctor, Hughes, and Fischman 1988, p. 514]. In another case, a 19-year-old man complained of cough, abdominal cramps, and vomiting immediately and 24 hours after accidental exposure to zinc chloride fume. He developed shortness of breath, fever, and tachycardia and died 11 days later [ACGIH 1986, p. 643]. Contact of the skin with zinc chloride dust can cause primary dermatitis and chemical burns [Rom 1983, p. 503]. Dilute zinc chloride solutions cause no eye damage, but accidental splashes of concentrated solutions have caused permanent corneal opacities [Grant 1986, pp. 986-987].
* Signs and symptoms of exposure
1. Acute exposure: The signs and symptoms of acute exposure to zinc chloride fume include conjunctivitis, irritation of the nose and throat, hoarseness, cough, dyspnea, wheezing, rales, rhonchi, chest tightness and/or pain, nausea, vomiting, epigastric pain, listlessness, lightheadedness, and a metallic taste in the mouth.

If it's a s simple as just finding an enameled metal ash can (vs galvanized) to avoid the issue, I know which path I'm taking.

Aye,
Marty
Grandma used to say, "Don't work harder. Work smarter."

 

[ScotO]

Here's a good case to take in about Zinc Metal Fume Fever - Just ask Jim -"paw-Paw" Wilson.
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo

But then, there are those who believe breathing just a little bit of poison is just fine...

Aye,
Marty

Marty, I agree that a dose of zinc as described in that article would be very bad, but so would a dose of wood smoke. It sounds like he actually died from more than just the zinc. I am sure that pipe, when put in the forge, reached high enough temps to outgas manganese, vanadium, lead and whatever other trace metals were in that pipe. So yes, that would be very deadly. But all I was saying is that incidental contact with it won't kill you, and that bucket (even when filled with hot material) would have a hard time ever reaching the burning stage where you would have the galvanized coating burning. We have a raging fire inside the stove going and the metal stove never goes.into the 900 degree range, and that is where you need to be for the zinc to burn off. But if you have an alternative to use, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Martin Strand III]

Here's a good case to take in about Zinc Metal Fume Fever - Just ask Jim -"paw-Paw" Wilson.
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo

But then, there are those who believe breathing just a little bit of poison is just fine...

Aye,
Marty

Marty, I agree that a dose of zinc as described in that article would be very bad, but so would a dose of wood smoke. It sounds like he actually died from more than just the zinc. I am sure that pipe, when put in the forge, reached high enough temps to outgas manganese, vanadium, lead and whatever other trace metals were in that pipe. So yes, that would be very deadly. But all I was saying is that incidental contact with it won't kill you, and that bucket (even when filled with hot material) would have a hard time ever reaching the burning stage where you would have the galvanized coating burning. We have a raging fire inside the stove going and the metal stove never goes.into the 900 degree range, and that is where you need to be for the zinc to burn off. But if you have an alternative to use, there is nothing wrong with that.

That's reasonable and a dose related statement. We agree! Thanks.

Don't know about others, but I prefer to avoid breathing even a little bit of poison.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Battenkiller]

Scott, not to nitpick, but the point where zinc burns off and forms zinc oxide is above 900ºC. That is actually above 1600ºF. Like I said, glowing orange in daylight. Not gonna happen in an ash bucket, even hard inside the stove itself throughout much of the burn.

Marty, Jim had COPD and breathed in large amounts of a mucosal irritant leading to death by pneumonia, not poisoning. Any heavy concentration of particulates might have led to his demise as Scott pointed out. And the info from OSHA is regarding zinc chloride, not zinc oxide. It's often not the metal itself when it comes to toxicity, it's the compounds it forms. For example, elemental mercury in its liquid state is fairly benign when handled due to extremely poor absorption through the skin. However, just a few drops of dimethyl mercury spilled on a latex-gloved hand in the lab killed a prominent researcher on mercury toxicity. She died many months after the exposure, and all of medical science - including intense chelation therapy - could not save her.

At any rate, I maintain that using a galvanized ash bucket or ash handling tool is perfectly safe.

 

[ScotO]

Scott, not to nitpick, but the point where zinc burns off and forms zinc oxide is above 900ºC. That is actually above 1600ºF. Like I said, glowing orange in daylight. Not gonna happen in an ash bucket, even hard inside the stove itself throughout much of the burn.


At any rate, I maintain that using a galvanized ash bucket or ash handling tool is perfectly safe.

Yes BK I realized that temp was in °C but I didn't specify that. I do a lot of welding and we do some hobby blacksmithing on an antique forge as well. And I agree with you on all points. I feel the galvy bucket is safe to use on ash removal, but I wouldn't want to cook on it... :sick: :lol:

 

[Martin Strand III]

Scott, not to nitpick, but the point where zinc burns off and forms zinc oxide is above 900ºC. That is actually above 1600ºF. Like I said, glowing orange in daylight. Not gonna happen in an ash bucket, even hard inside the stove itself throughout much of the burn.

Marty, Jim had COPD and breathed in large amounts of a mucosal irritant leading to death by pneumonia, not poisoning. Any heavy concentration of particulates might have led to his demise as Scott pointed out. And the info from OSHA is regarding zinc chloride, not zinc oxide. It's often not the metal itself when it comes to toxicity, it's the compounds it forms. For example, elemental mercury in its liquid state is fairly benign when handled due to extremely poor absorption through the skin. However, just a few drops of dimethyl mercury spilled on a latex-gloved hand in the lab killed a prominent researcher on mercury toxicity. She died many months after the exposure, and all of medical science - including intense chelation therapy - could not save her.

At any rate, I maintain that using a galvanized ash bucket or ash handling tool is perfectly safe.

There's that logic again.

Doctor, I put zinc oxide on my nose to protect from sunburn skiing the Alps. It's also in A&D ointment for skin problems, calamine lotion and used in dentistry for sedative tooth dressings. This is totally benign stuff.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Ken45]

Thanks to the people who clarified this (zinc) issue with facts.

Ken

 

[ScotO]

I'm no scientist, and I know this may be a little off topic, but almost ANY chloride in gas corm is deadly. I was welding axles in a machine shop o used to work at and at the same time someone across the shop was cleaning parts with aerosol brake cleaner. As I was welding I started to feel lightheaded and noticed a strong smell of chlorine in the air. I realized that the vapor from that brake cleaner was coming in contact with my welding arc and releasing chlorine gas. And THAT stuff will kill you. We evacuated the shop til the air cleared and a safety bulletin was issued about the situation. Lesson learned, almost the hard way!

 

[firefighterjake]

I read some of you use a barrel to dump your ashes in. I put one out the back door. Problem is when I dump the bucket in there it plumes all over blowing into the house. Any tricks here? I guess I'll have to move it farther away.

Getting back to the original poster and not the galvanized vs. non-galvanized debate.

I have a 10-gallon covered metal pail that sits away from the house . . . I do get some ash plume when I dump my ash pan into the pail . . . but I'm well away from the house and I quickly put the lid back on top. I still manage to sometimes get a little bit of ash on me or the ground . . . but it's not a worry.