Attack Boiler

[kooslf]

I have posted in this forum several years ago. I didn't get to proceed with the project I outlined then. I hope to implement some of the ideas discussed previously, with the exception of now considering an Attack Lambda DPX45. I have hopefully surveyed the offerings now available, and think the Attack boiler may be about as good as others on offer, with the advantage of being significantly cheaper. Do any of you out there have any opinions to offer as to the qualities or drawbacks of this particular boiler?

Thank You Lloyd Koos

 

[3fordasho]

I have posted in this forum several years ago. I didn't get to proceed with the project I outlined then. I hope to implement some of the ideas discussed previously, with the exception of now considering an Attack Lambda DPX45. I have hopefully surveyed the offerings now available, and think the Attack boiler may be about as good as others on offer, with the advantage of being significantly cheaper. Do any of you out there have any opinions to offer as to the qualities or drawbacks of this particular boiler?

Thank You Lloyd Koos

I have two of that exact boiler. One installed since 2019 and batch burn it once a day during the heating season. The other heats an outbuilding when needed so that one only runs a couple times a week or more if I have projects in the shop. Both are installed with storage, 1000 gallons closed for the daily use boiler and 550 gallons open for the twice a week burn. No complaints and would purchase again, definitely the best bang for the buck on a lamba controlled boiler. I did modify the exchanger tube cleaning mechanism (basically to remove the factory lever set up and just remove the cover, turbulators and brush the tubes once a week- I can do it in 15 minutes) I do batch burns and can start the boiler from cold in less than 10 minutes and let it run for 2 hrs, reload about 1/2-3/4 firebox full after the two hours and that's it for the daily batch burn. The only problem I've ever heard of was from a guy who was running his with no storage what so ever- his inducer fan gets clogged up with creosote because the boiler idles too much.. With the appropriate amount of storage the boiler will never idle. My inducer fan stays clean and I remove it once per season to blow off minimal dusty build up.

I also had a local fab shop make up a nozzle protection plate out of 1/4" thick stainless steel to prevent wear on the nozzle opening. Seems to be working because I see no apparent wear in the refractory opening- see some EKO threads about this issue and the effort required to replace the refractory nozzle.

https://www.youtube.com/@timdahm7039

 

[kooslf]

Thanks for the reply. I have seen one or so of your You tube posts before. I will have to check them all out. The issue of nozzle erosion seems to be an eventual problem with all brands. If you would care to send a picture of your mod for that issue, I'm sure there may be several people interested to see. In my case, we should be capable of making our own part after seeing your successful design.

 

[Highbeam]

Is it the attack boilers that aren't UL listed or EPA certified or some other similar thing lacking?

 

[3fordasho]

Is it the attack boilers that aren't UL listed or EPA certified or some other similar thing lacking?

US importer attaches a CSA/UL listing I believe - I know there is a sticker on both of mine. There is no EPA certification for this boiler - as with many of the previously imported boilers, the manufacturer has decided not to undertake that expense.

The lambda control electronics in the attack is the same as what Varm uses, I actually used the Varm manual to access some of the buried settings as the instruction was just a bit more understandable.

 

[3fordasho]

Thanks for the reply. I have seen one or so of your You tube posts before. I will have to check them all out. The issue of nozzle erosion seems to be an eventual problem with all brands. If you would care to send a picture of your mod for that issue, I'm sure there may be several people interested to see. In my case, we should be capable of making our own part after seeing your successful design.

I just started using this version a week or two ago, previous versions were all out of 1/8" thick 304 SS and would only last a month or two before warping. This version is 1/4" thick on the main plate and the side walls that go into the nozzle opening are 1/8" thick.

I'll have to have some more time on this one to report back how it holds up.

Previously I've just used firebrick on top of the existing nozzle and cut that to match the factory opening. That only lasts so long as well.
The firebrick is a bit more of a pain because it can shift when adding wood or removing ash.

 

[kooslf]

Wow, an engineering drawing and everything! You don't fool around!
Thank You, Lloyd

 

[brenndatomu]

previous versions were all out of 1/8" thick 304 SS and would only last a month or two before warping. This version is 1/4" thick on the main plate and the side walls that go into the nozzle opening are 1/8" thick.

310 would be a better fit for that extreme high temp appliation.

 

[3fordasho]

310 would be a better fit for that extreme high temp appliation.

Agreed - 304 is what the fab shop had on hand and to a lesser extent - 316. Typical grades for food / pharma processing equipment.

 

[kooslf]

I have two of that exact boiler. One installed since 2019 and batch burn it once a day during the heating season. The other heats an outbuilding when needed so that one only runs a couple times a week or more if I have projects in the shop. Both are installed with storage, 1000 gallons closed for the daily use boiler and 550 gallons open for the twice a week burn. No complaints and would purchase again, definitely the best bang for the buck on a lambda controlled boiler.

In my first post I mentioned the Attack DPX 45 lambda as being the brand and size I am considering. You describe having two of those. Apparently there is also a DPX 80 lambda which is not being imported here in USA. That model might have been my choice if it had been available, and not too costly. My load situation might not justify such a large boiler, but I have always thought that if sufficient storage was provided to accommodate one complete wood load from the boiler, that it wouldn't make much difference what size the heating load was, only the frequency of firing would be affected, and the possibility of adding additional load would be provided for. In the case above, would it have been more practical, and maybe even cheaper to have used one larger boiler if one had been available? One other point I might wonder about is whether a larger boiler might be slightly more likely to accommodate somewhat larger dia. pieces, even if maximum output might be somewhat reduced?

Lloyd

 

[3fordasho]

In my first post I mentioned the Attack DPX 45 lambda as being the brand and size I am considering. You describe having two of those. Apparently there is also a DPX 80 lambda which is not being imported here in USA. That model might have been my choice if it had been available, and not too costly. My load situation might not justify such a large boiler, but I have always thought that if sufficient storage was provided to accommodate one complete wood load from the boiler, that it wouldn't make much difference what size the heating load was, only the frequency of firing would be affected, and the possibility of adding additional load would be provided for. In the case above, would it have been more practical, and maybe even cheaper to have used one larger boiler if one had been available? One other point I might wonder about is whether a larger boiler might be slightly more likely to accommodate somewhat larger dia. pieces, even if maximum output might be somewhat reduced?

Lloyd

In my case the distance between buildings would have required about a 250-300ft underground run to feed the shop from the buiding the first boiler/storage set up is in. That would run at least $4k in underground line not including the trench work or additional pump/fittings.
It was simply a better set up for me to have a second boiler set up in the shop. (also like you mentioned the bigger Attack boiler is not imported)

Yes as long as you have enough storage to store the heat from a larger boiler, you don't really have to match the boiler to your heat loads.
My 1000 gallons is a good match to the dpx45. My 550 gallon set up is a bit small for storage and I have to watch boiler temps and sometimes turn on heat emitters in the shop to not overheat the boiler and have it go into idle mode. This issue is easy to manage however, as my shop is large 40x60, tall ceilings and non-insulated floor/foundation - bringing it up to temp or increasing it on a cold day can easily use all the boilers output even with storage up to temp.

The thing to avoid is too little storage and/or load which forces the boiler into idle mode - in idle mode these become creosote makers and you will have problems with at least the inducer fan getting gunked up.

 

[kooslf]

In my case the distance between buildings would have required about a 250-300ft underground run to feed the shop from the buiding the first boiler/storage set up is in. That would run at least $4k in underground line not including the trench work or additional pump/fittings.
It was simply a better set up for me to have a second boiler set up in the shop. (also like you mentioned the bigger Attack boiler is not imported)

Yes as long as you have enough storage to store the heat from a larger boiler, you don't really have to match the boiler to your heat loads.
My 1000 gallons is a good match to the dpx45. My 550 gallon set up is a bit small for storage and I have to watch boiler temps and sometimes turn on heat emitters in the shop to not overheat the boiler and have it go into idle mode. This issue is easy to manage however, as my shop is large 40x60, tall ceilings and non-insulated floor/foundation - bringing it up to temp or increasing it on a cold day can easily use all the boilers output even with storage up to temp.

Thanks again for the reply. I can certainly imagine that the 40*60 building could be a load to bring up to heat if cooled down. My shop is approx. the same size, but if my 1000 gal storage was almost up to heat to start with, then the DPX 45 might be able to warm up the shop rather quickly if the boiler would be fired at the same time. I am familiar with an older coal boiler/ gravity circulation system in the house I grew up in. My brother lived there until he died. He had tried to implement a 275 gal. heat storage system into the existing gravity radiator system, but I don't think it worked very well. I now own the house, and added a device sometimes called a loading unit to assist with getting the boiler up to temp and then circulating the boiler output to the heat storage. No one lives there at this time, but we are heating it occasionally to keep the basement from freezing. That boiler is a coal boiler but we always fired it with wood, which isn't ideal. The loading unit really does a nice job of managing the boiler temp., no worries about overheating the boiler. Also, if you aren't familiar with how water will segregate into layers as heated, this has been a good lesson for me. I surely didn't expect it to be so easy to tell how full the heat storage was getting. There would be a definite transition easily felt between the heated and cold water, and that is how we determined how much more wood to add before stopping. This tank, wasn't insulated or we wouldn't have so easily noticed this result.

 

[oscar1111]

Hi, I'm interested in the Attack DPX as well, can I ask how you purchased it? Distributor?

 

[3fordasho]

Hi, I'm interested in the Attack DPX as well, can I ask how you purchased it? Distributor?

I purchased two through: http://newhorizonstore.com/default.aspx

Email Zenon at: [email protected]

 

[oscar1111]

Thank you! I have talked to Zenon and unfortunately he can't get these due to high demand, but I'm looking at his Eko and Biomass lines.