Austroflamm Integra still no go

[RKBAGUY]

Actually there is a vacuum (air pressure sensor in that stove), it is part of the function of the air sensor.

I suppose you could look at it that way, but it's not a true vacuum system in the vein of what most users would expect, so I think it's important to differentiate. We don't want to send this guy on a wild goose chase looking for vacuum lines and diaphragm type pressure switches that aren't there on this model.

Just sayin'. This stuff can be confusing. Sure was for me when I got started.

 

[Jeff Lawson]

Actually there is a vacuum (air pressure sensor in that stove), it is part of the function of the air sensor.

The Austroflamm air sensor measures speed, temperature, humidity, and density. I believe the stove circuitry is designed such that it assumes if there is air flow on the negative side of the combustion motor, then there must be vacuum or negative air. But I don't think the sensor itself actually measures vacuum or negative air pressure.

It is a pretty fancy little piece of circuitry all on it's own. But to answer almartion, I do recall that it somehow uses temperature across two different sensors to measure air speed.

I agree with the others, you need to actually see the screw turn. It could just be making that familiar noise leading you to believe it is moving pellets. If it is...I would power it up until the auger stops, and then repeat until the screw is primed up...and then begin your start up process. And troubleshoot from there.

Do get some more model information posted though. You say you push a button...I press a switch on my older 1992 model. So I'm kind of thinking you have one of the newer Integras with push button user control boards.

 

[RKBAGUY]

The Austroflamm air sensor measures speed, temperature, humidity, and density. I believe the stove circuitry is designed such that it assumes if there is air flow on the negative side of the combustion motor, then there must be vacuum or negative air. But I don't think the sensor itself actually measures vacuum or negative air pressure.

Bingo. What he said.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The Austroflamm air sensor measures speed, temperature, humidity, and density. I believe the stove circuitry is designed such that it assumes if there is air flow on the negative side of the combustion motor, then there must be vacuum or negative air. But I don't think the sensor itself actually measures vacuum or negative air pressure.

It is a pretty fancy little piece of circuitry all on it's own. But to answer almartion, I do recall that it somehow uses temperature across two different sensors to measure air speed.

I agree with the others, you need to actually see the screw turn. It could just be making that familiar noise leading you to believe it is moving pellets. If it is...I would power it up until the auger stops, and then repeat until the screw is primed up...and then begin your start up process. And troubleshoot from there.

Do get some more model information posted though. You say you push a button...I press a switch on my older 1992 model. So I'm kind of thinking you have one of the newer Integras with push button user control boards.

Temperature, speed, density, and air flow is a back door method of measuring pressure in the system.

In short that air sensor is also a "vacuum" switch.

 

[Mt Bob]

Hi,again.You should tell people it is a version 2,v2,will help out.Your stove has a highly complex computer.The v1 stoves do not.90% of the v2 diagnostics are useless to you.Some things you may be able to try,as I do not know your abilitys.1 run auger motor(hopper loaded)directly off 120 volts for several minutes(carefuly).2 make sure your programming on crontrol panel is in manual mode,follow manual.If this is above you call your buddy that works on cars and feed him some beers.Also,14 year olds are great at programming things,not like us old guys.I always seem to need help with a new cell phone!P.S. you do not have a vacuum switch.Your stove uses a thin film mass air flow sensor,very trouble free except for dirt.95% of vehicles run them.Good luck.Bob

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

I have the integra II with a digital control panel. Bought new in 2006. Got up this morning and removed the high temp switch, and it is normally closed, meaning I had continuity across the contacts. Laid it on electric burner of my stove, and turned on. Switch opened up which is what it's supposed to do. I don't know at what temp it opened, but it is working. Put it back into stove. Turned on again, and auger motor is not turning. Shut it off again and am going to go watch the Red skins beat Kansas City. Will deal with this tomorrow.

Believe tomorrow I will hook the auger motor up directly to 115v to see if it feeds the pellets. When I had it removed and on my bench, it worked fine and I tried to hold the flat from turning with my hand and was not able to stop it. So I assumed the motor was good. In order for me to do that, I have to become a monkey again to get to it. It is an insert if I had not said yet. Go skins.

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

Well the Skins lost big time to the Chiefs.

Tomorrow I will load test the auger motor to see if it can feed pellets into the fire pot. To do this, I have to reach in and disconnect the two wires and then hook up my AC cord to the motor, then plug in. It is works, it will feed pellets to the top of the ramp and into the fire pot.

If it does, then I'm not sure what to do next.

 

[Mt Bob]

Reccomend call stacey at lucky distributing.

 

[Jeff Lawson]

If it does, then I'm not sure what to do next.

Fire it up. See what it does then. That will be some good diagnostic info.

 

[altmartion]

ma

Well the Skins lost big time to the Chiefs.

Tomorrow I will load test the auger motor to see if it can feed pellets into the fire pot. To do this, I have to reach in and disconnect the two wires and then hook up my AC cord to the motor, then plug in. It is works, it will feed pellets to the top of the ramp and into the fire pot.

If it does, then I'm not sure what to do next.

maybe you should take an amp draw. this will tell you if the motor is "loading" too much.

 

[Mark_ms]

I didn't realize that this was an Integra 2.

In another thread you asked about connections as in what goes where..are you sure you ave them connected correctly?
How is your door gasket, you may have a leak or a gap. Test with a dollar bill open door and place bill inbetween door and stove, close the door and then pull on the bill if it comes out easy you need to replace gasket or maybe adjust your door. there should fair amount of resistance when pulling the bill.
Is there a ground from the auger and it is tight.

 

[Flammam]

Sounds to me like you air sensor is shot. The explanation of how it functions give by Jeff is right on. There are two separate circuits on the board one is a reference circuit and the other is the actual sensing element. One thing to check is your door gaskets. If you draw in air anywhere besides the inlet tube it will throw off the air sensor, possibly enough to shut the stove down.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm not going to read the manual to find out if the high limit is auto reset or manual.

If it is manual then when you heated it up and caused it to open it may need to be reset. The usual reset is via a red plastic like button, that must be pressed in so that it latches, you should l be able to feel or hear that happen, continuing to press in after it latches will cause it to pop back out.

If it is automatic then when it cools off enough it will reset.

It must reset after being opened for the auger circuit to operate.

Flammam is probably correct in the air sensor being shot if the auger is properly coupled to its motor and your high limit is closed.

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

ma

maybe you should take an amp draw. this will tell you if the motor is "loading" too much.

How would you do an amp draw? I don't have a amp-meter gauge and wouldn't it have to be inserted in series with the motor. Remember this is an insert, stuck half way in and half way out on my mantle, leaving very little room. I can either see it but not get to it, or if I can turn it enough to get to it, I can't see what I'm doing. I forced my head between the opening of the fireplace and stove, and hurt my colarbone. Now it's so sensitive, I won't be doing that anytime soon. I have had the auger motor out, and plugged it into an extension cord with two clips on the end. The motor worked good, I couldn't stop it with my fingers holding it. My proposed test is to disconnect the motor electrically, connect it to my extension cord, and then plug it into 110V. If the motor turns and starts feeding the burn pot, then I know that under actual load, it works. If it stops or whatever, then I will order a new motor. I will do this w/o the stove plugged in.

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

I didn't realize that this was an Integra 2.
In another thread you asked about connections as in what goes where..are you sure you ave them connected correctly?

The guy who told me where to plug in the digital controller cable took a picture of his unit, and it looked exactly like mine, including the color. Everything seems to be executing like it should, meaning it turns on, the digital display ST and the number of minutes starts counting down, the combustion motor starts turning, the auger motor starts turning, the pellets I put into the burn pot start to smoke and then light up, then the auger motor stops turning (NOT Normal). The countdown continues and when it should be switching from start to run, it pops the error message and starts the shut down procedure. So I think it is hooked up electrically correct.

How is your door gasket, you may have a leak or a gap. Test with a dollar bill open door and place bill inbetween door and stove, close the door and then pull on the bill if it comes out easy you need to replace gasket or maybe adjust your door. there should fair amount of resistance when pulling the bill.

I did this just now along the top, front and bottom of the door in several places and it held it tight.

Is there a ground from the auger and it is tight.

The auger motor has several wires coming out of the motor, but they go into some shrink tube and out of that are only two wires coming out of it. I don't know what is under the shrink tube, someone suggested a capacitor, but I didn't cut it open to check. So only two wires come out and they just plug into two female wires connectors. I made my extension cord to check the motor as I thought at first it was defective, but when the motor sits in my hand and I try to stop it, it is very strong. That's why I ruled out the motor. My plan is to twist the stove enough to get into the motor connectors, unhook them, hook up my extension cord, and plug it in. The stove will not be plugged in when I do this, so it is only testing whether the auger motor will turn the auger with pellets under actual load conditions. It should run until I unplug it. I plan to catch the pellets as then fall into the burn pot and reuse them. I am thinking to run it at least 3-4 minutes as a good test. The auger is supposed to turn 1 revolution per minute, but when I had it out under no-load conditions, it took about 45 seconds to make a 360 degree turn, so I am guessing that a full 110 volts makes it turn faster than 1 rpm and the stove probably puts something less than 110V depending on my feed setting.

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

I'm not going to read the manual to find out if the high limit is auto reset or manual.

If it is manual then when you heated it up and caused it to open it may need to be reset. The usual reset is via a red plastic like button, that must be pressed in so that it latches, you should l be able to feel or hear that happen, continuing to press in after it latches will cause it to pop back out.

If it is automatic then when it cools off enough it will reset.

It must reset after being opened for the auger circuit to operate.

Flammam is probably correct in the air sensor being shot if the auger is properly coupled to its motor and your high limit is closed.

I tested the high limit switch by removing it from the stove, hooking up my ohm meter to it, and placing the switch on my electric stove. It read zero ohms and when it got hot, it opened up to infinite ohms. So only the switch was checked, not inside the stove. I might add that it sits against the metal and if the metal gets too hot, it will open the high limit switch and stops the auger motor. So the auger motor is in series with the auger motor.

 

[altmartion]

How would you do an amp draw? I don't have a amp-meter gauge and wouldn't it have to be inserted in series with the motor. Remember this is an insert, stuck half way in and half way out on my mantle, leaving very little room. I can either see it but not get to it, or if I can turn it enough to get to it, I can't see what I'm doing. I forced my head between the opening of the fireplace and stove, and hurt my colarbone. Now it's so sensitive, I won't be doing that anytime soon. I have had the auger motor out, and plugged it into an extension cord with two clips on the end. The motor worked good, I couldn't stop it with my fingers holding it. My proposed test is to disconnect the motor electrically, connect it to my extension cord, and then plug it into 110V. If the motor turns and starts feeding the burn pot, then I know that under actual load, it works. If it stops or whatever, then I will order a new motor. I will do this w/o the stove plugged in.

a clamp meter would do it, but if you don't have one, well, you don't have one. I just absolutely hate when people just throw parts at something without verifying it is the issue. you need to find out where the power stops flowing when the auger motor is in it's 'failed" state. are all the safety's working? is the auger motor getting the correct voltage? It very well be the motor or it could be a safety or loose connection or loose ground. I have seen on numerous occasions where someone will swap out a part and it works fine for a while. but still reverts back to the original symptom's. you can do what you want, it's your stove and wallet, I just recommend confirming it is the actual cause and not just the effect.

 

[altmartion]

it it is a capacitor motor then the capacitor needs to be tested as well. if it is in line and not attached to the motor it most likely will not come with the new motor. if you do replace the motor make sure the capacitor gets changed too.

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

.....I just absolutely hate when people just throw parts at something without verifying it is the issue.

On the contrary, I have not thrown parts at the problem. I have checked many components that people have suggested might be a problem, and in every case, I have confirmed that "that part" was not the problem. I have put in a lot of hours checking things and the only thing I have bought is a lower auger bushing, which I do believe was allowing dust to escape out and after removing it, found it to be gouged in the bore. I bought gaskets to replace as I remove parts.

you need to find out where the power stops flowing when the auger motor is in it's 'failed" state.

I completely agree, but it's harder than heck to get to things to check anything.

are all the safety's working?

Well the three I checked, the hopper door safety switch, the low limit switch and the high limit switch have been checked and are working or are working in the correct condition. The hopper lid safety switch is stuck in the closed position which allows the auger to operate. If I open the hopper door, the switch does not open as it should, but stays in the closed position. If you tap it, it will click open. Since I keep the hopper door closed, the switch is working properly.

is the auger motor getting the correct voltage? It very well be the motor or it could be a safety or loose connection or loose ground.

It's getting some voltage, but I have not checked the voltage to see what it is. My focus is on ruling out the auger motor in a dynamic condition. I was not able to do any work on the stove since this morning, so maybe tomorrow.

I have seen on numerous occasions where someone will swap out a part and it works fine for a while. but still reverts back to the original symptom's. you can do what you want, it's your stove and wallet, I just recommend confirming it is the actual cause and not just the effect.

Do you live near Maryland, I could always use some help.

 

[Flammam]

In 20 years with my stove I have never had a auger jam. Heres what I would do. Take the motor off by loosening the collar that couples the motor to the auger. Turn the auger with pliers or vise grips until you see pellets falling into the burn pot. Now you know there is no auger jam. re install motor insuring the set screw is on the flat of the auger shaft and is tight. light stove and see what happens. If the auger stops after a couple minutes I would suspect the air sensor to be bad. Hope this helps

 

[altmartion]

On the contrary, I have not thrown parts at the problem. I have checked many components that people have suggested might be a problem, and in every case, I have confirmed that "that part" was not the problem. I have put in a lot of hours checking things and the only thing I have bought is a lower auger bushing, which I do believe was allowing dust to escape out and after removing it, found it to be gouged in the bore. I bought gaskets to replace as I remove parts.


I completely agree, but it's harder than heck to get to things to check anything.



Well the three I checked, the hopper door safety switch, the low limit switch and the high limit switch have been checked and are working or are working in the correct condition. The hopper lid safety switch is stuck in the closed position which allows the auger to operate. If I open the hopper door, the switch does not open as it should, but stays in the closed position. If you tap it, it will click open. Since I keep the hopper door closed, the switch is working properly.

It's getting some voltage, but I have not checked the voltage to see what it is. My focus is on ruling out the auger motor in a dynamic condition. I was not able to do any work on the stove since this morning, so maybe tomorrow.



Do you live near Maryland, I could always use some help.

if I did I sure would help. I wasn't suggesting you are a parts changer, just suggesting you diagnose further. in my biz, we have plenty of parts changers. lol
I know these this can be hard to work on. I want to help with out changing parts.

 

[Mt Bob]

AH,new info from you.Which one of the five error codes is it showing?

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

AH,new info from you.Which one of the five error codes is it showing?

EX 0 or EX 10 if I remember correctly

 

[Frank Nuhfer]

In 20 years with my stove I have never had a auger jam. Heres what I would do. Take the motor off by loosening the collar that couples the motor to the auger. Turn the auger with pliers or vise grips until you see pellets falling into the burn pot. Now you know there is no auger jam. re install motor insuring the set screw is on the flat of the auger shaft and is tight. light stove and see what happens. If the auger stops after a couple minutes I would suspect the air sensor to be bad. Hope this helps

My first step was to clean out the hopper completely and remove the auger cover and vacuume out the pellets in the auger. When it was clean, I would try to wiggle it and it would move slightly. I put it back together, added pellets and started the stove. The auger appeared to be jammed up again.

I removed the pellets from the hopper again, removed the auger cover again, and again vacuumed the pellets out of the auger. In both instances, I also used a small dental tool to dislodge pellets and again put it together.

After the 3rd time, I bought a different kind of pellets as this problem surfaced after we switched from Lignetics to the Home Depot brand. So I have freeded the auger motor at least 3 times with the same result.

This led me to believe the motor might be defective because it would not turn the auger yet I knew the auger could move albiet with the motor attached.

I was getting tired of doing the same thing with the same results, so I pulled the insert out enough to remove the rear panel, unscrewed the 5mm allen head on the collar, and removed the motor. I then tried to turn the auger motor with my bare hands but couldn't turn it in the CW direction. I just could not do it so I turned it CCW and then CW and it turned but was very rough. I also noticed a pile of sediment directly under the auger motor which anothe poster said was an indication that the lower bushing was bad. So I removed the auger shaft and that's when I saw a goughed bushing.

As I have said many times, I also tested the auger motor on my kitchen counter and it seemed quiet, turned 360 degrees without any grinding, and so I then held the motor and with my fingers, tried to stop the motor. I could not, but I am not sure if my ability to slow the motor down was as great a load as the auger was with pellets and a gouged bushing. So I ordered a new bushing but not a motor. After reassembling everything and trying it again,with the same results, I started expanding my search. I checked the three swithes and the air sensor. The air sensor is a PC board sticking in the cold air intake, so if it is good or bad, I cannot troubleshoot. I wiped it clean and reinstalled. I keep going back to testing the static load and the dynamic load of the motor. I know it turns the auger because I placed an inspection mirror down there and with my flashlight, could see the collar start to rotate, but then stops rotating. So the only thing different is the load of the pellets in the hopper.

So my test is to test the motor in a dynamic load with pellets using straight 110 V power to see if it will feed the pellets. If it does, it dispels my motor and auger defective theory 100%. Then this would lead me to the control circuitry, including the air sensor which I can't test, and the computer main circuit board.

 

[Mt Bob]

If my memory is well,ex means exit program,error problem would be-err and then a number.Saw a way to unplug auger from control box and plug it into ignitor spot to test it,was in one of these fourms under rika,i think.Would save you from trying to get behind stove again.Search forums.Also the distributor(lucky distributing)will help with technical problems even though it is out of warrenty.Got to go to work now.Bob