Baffeled with this Coal stove. HELP!!!!?

[kittiy]

So a few months ago I really thought I was on the ball.. September cleaned up and put in an old Vigilant.. I believe it's a Vigilant 1A. Came with the coal kit. New liner, tons of work... all in the anticipation of burning coal... So.. we set it up.. burn wood till we are hitting 40 degree days and try to light first 2 fires.. turns out doing it completely wrong. Had a friend who burns nothing but coal.. come show us the ropes.. ok.. doesn't work. OK.. install the correct 8" flue rather than the first 6" flue we installed.. ( by the way.. good long hot burns out of the vigilant+ 6" flue with wood.. 10 split logs a day, it was a beautiful dirty hot thing.. Anyway.. new 8" flue.. Set up the coal thing again.. and start it up 30 minutes later beautiful blue flames.. red coals.. hot stove.. all was happy in the house.. 4 hours later idle stove.. 300 degrees no flame.. 4 hours beyond that.. hopper isn't empty.. but the fire is dead.. This is the 3third time we have had this result.. no clue why. the only thing I can think of is that it isn't getting enough air.. ok it's a bad design.. who has had any luck with Coal in this stove?
Tried to put the little cover plate back on the bottom right hand side inside and I couldn't even get the starter wood to burn to get another try at heating the coal... we have been beating our heads up against the wall since Augst/ september to get this thing going.. and.. I want to get it figured out before it gets to be spring so I can be ready for next winter. I have burned wood my whole life.. getting a little tired of it.. plus my husband and I have just bought our first home leaveing my mother to just herself.. I don't want to worry about her lugging wood.. so please.. HELP... I'm really at my wits end. I would love to buy a newer stove but.. its' just not in the budget so we have to make this one work.
by the way.. have read all on this site and been to every link...

 

[Corey]

I don't know too much about coal, but since no one else has answered: Usually if there is a coal stove issue on here, one word always seems to come up..."draft" Coal seems to be extremely particular about how much draft there is...too little and the fire dies out, too much and you have a fire capable of smelting iron.

The fact that you say you can't even get the wood fire to burn seems to suggest there is too little draft. On the one occasion when the coal stove did work, was this an exceptionally cold day? If so, that again points to low draft - the stove will draft better on cold days.

You mention 6" and 8" flue, but you might want to include some info on how tall, interior/exterior chase, insulated, etc. Some coal burners have gone so far as to put a manometer or magnahelic gauge on the stove to measure the draft and make sure it was within specs.

HTH

 

[kittiy]

Thank you for being hopfully the first to come to my rescue. ok.. The chimney is a double wall with a layer of insulation followed by an 8" stainless steel liner. It is 12" from "t" to top. 3' above a flat roof. Inside to assit the draft I do have... similar to what i know to be called an elephant truck.. Fresh air inlet behind the stove. Also we have had our friend hook up the water tube gauge( sorry can't think of the name) while burning a wood stove.. and the Draft is fine.. That is all with the grates in. With the grates out and burning wood on the floor of the stove.. I have no problem.. I'm hoping someone understands the rear baffle system on the back plate of the stove. it seems to be an air bypass system that keeps the hot air in contact with the Iron to keep it hot and make better use of the fire.. I can't tell whether I should be using the plate that came with the kit to close it off.. or to leave it open.. I think leaving it open all my fresh air is just wooshing behind the firebox and right up the flue ( I can only compare this theory to the over flow drain in your bathroom sink. like putting a plate in your sink and sending the water directly out the drain with out ever hitting the cavity of the sink it'self). Is this making any sense? I am burning anthric coal ( as Recommended by the UL listing on the back of the stove). I also have a barameteric damper on the pipe. It is leveled and correctly positioned so I am not too worried about over burn.. I'm just about to dive in head first in to this stove to see what I can figure out.. so.. keep the ideas coming... every thought seems to be a piece to the puzzle

 

[Dix]

Coal needs air to burn, is there a damper, air control under the grates that the coals sit on?

Maybe a pic of this beasty might help

 

[kittiy]

http://www.stovepartsplus.com/Merchant5/PDFFILES/VC-PDFS/VC-VIG-PDF/VC-VIG-0054.pdf scematics of coal kit
http://www.stovepartsplus.com/Merchant5/PDFFILES/VC-PDFS/VC-VIG-PDF/VC-VIG-I-IA-0035-0039.pdf scematics of Stove...
If you can see in part number 5 of the stove it's self.. it's got an air baffle system that runs from the lower right hand corner to a zig zag up behind the firebox wall. ( labeled 1977) Now.. from what I can tell from shining lights in.. the right lower corner is shut off from the fresh air supply by piece number 4. this piece seems to run behind the 4 air holes in the back fire box plate. I know people have used these in the past.. and I'm told from a dealer that I shouldn't be having too much trouble the way I am. I get clean light through the holes.. so I know they are not blocked. I don't really have any pictures.. but If I did I wouldn't really be able to take a shot of anything behind the firebox wall.

 

[Dix]

Wow, our coal stoves weren't any where near as involved. Guess we had dinosaurs

Have you gone here for help? Looks more promising than here

http://nepacrossroads.com/

 

[kittiy]

What kind did you have.. If it's any result.. after sealing up all possible air escapes around the kit with left over cement, gasket, and insulation.. we have a 30 watt light bulb and dancing blue flames.. I also.. Beat the crap out of the coal, figuatively speaking, while starting.. we were doing nice slow quaint additions of coal every few minutes.. .this time.. it was coal with dry wood then coal.. then wood.. back and forth.. got the flue air to temps above 800 degrees.. ( using a laser inefered thermometer.. ( I think that might have been an issue too.. using too good of technology.. the stove thermometers only say 300-500 degrees.. ) so.. I guess Iwill find out tonight... going to donate the night to being bed side nurse to this thing... it's off to the recliner for me...

 

[Dix]

How hot of a coal bed are you getting from the wood, before you start the coal?

You need a real hot bed, then add some coal, then some wood, then some more coal, etc to get it going.

I can't help with air feeds (you're stove is way far away from anything I dealt with as a kid *cough* 40-30 years ago :-S We had a pot belly in the living room, and a circa 1930's cook stove in the kitchen ..cast iron, porcelin coated, oven, warming oven, hot water jet, 6 lids, and a side box for fire. It was a beast.

How are the grates at the bottom, that you use to shake the coals? Clogged? Is the ash area full? That could prohibit bottom draft.

 

[kittiy]

Does anyone out there know what the flue temp should be to keep my draft going? I hear people say they can burn below 200 degrees.. My stove doesn't seem to be leaning in that direction. From looking at the scematics and crap manual for this stove.. I seem to be seeing that I should be able to close my damper for a horizantal burn and then the coal gas will go in to a seconary burn chamber with a tiny air inlet behind the fire box.. unfortunatly I'm too nervous about losing the fire that it took me nearing 2 hours to build. Any wisdom?

 

[Dix]

Go here

http://nepacrossroads.com/

Right click the link with the mouse, and then open new window.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

Hi Kittiykt

You do not say if you are burning hard or soft coal. But I am guessing hard (in more way than one?)

This is the fourth year I have been burning coal. I burn mainly soft but tried some hard this year too. Soft burns pretty much like wood but needs some air from the bottom. It also smells really bad when burning.

Hard coal from my experience is a lot trickier. It needs a lot of air and all from the bottom. It has to have clear pathways for the air to flow around the coal chunks. If there is too much ash around the coals it goes out. It needs a shaker grate to get the ash to drop out the bottom. If I disturb the coal bed too much it will go out like if I try to rake the coal bed to get the ash to drop out. If it is only glowing red it is out. It needs to be glowing bright red almost white. I have found if the coal bed is not about four inches deep it goes out.

I haven't burned hard too much and will not buy more. I hope it helps some and was not too unclear.

Billy

 

[kittiy]

yes hard coal. yes grates are clear.. still had a fire this morning.. Woo hoo.. Stayed up all nght babysitting it.. and studying it.. 45 minutes of sleep not so woo hoo.. I also burned through a whole hopper of coal ( little over 30 pounds.. ) way not woo hoo and my furnace still ran. the 2 foot section around the stove it Hot but it doesn't seem to be spreading through the house. We have a fresh air inlet in the floor behind the stove and I walked through the house with a stick on insense watching the air flow and it seems to be right... but I just can't seem to be getting a ton of heat out. the manual I found ( thanks to this site) says this is capable of 50,000 BTU's and heating 8,500 Sq feet. this place is just around 1000.. I should be in bermuda shorts and throwing windows open.. so.. Any more thoughts?
Keep them coming

 

[ansehnlich1]

I never burned coal in a vigilant. I did burn coal though in a Baker Toastmaster. It looked like the "Challenger" on thier website...

http://www.bakerstoves.com/stoves.htm

I burned "Reading Anthracite". You could get either "red ash" which is easier to burn, or "white ash" which takes a hotter fire to keep going.

I always burned red ash nut coal.

Coal definitely ain't like burnin' wood. Here's some pointers, don't know if they'll help or not.

Coal burns good with air coming in from under the coal bed. If your stove has air inlets UNDER the coal bed that is good, close off all the others.

You should be able to build a good wood fire and then add coal in stages to it. ALWAYS MAINTAIN A HOT SPOT, meaning, do not smother the wood fire, build up the coal leaving a glowing hot spot in front of the hopper, leaving air wide open.

The DEEPER the coal bed the better, in hand fired coal stoves. Always pile up the coal as high as possible in the hopper, leaving air wide open.

As stove temperature gets going, and things get hot, you should see coal fire burning.

An "idle" coal bed will take quite some time to regain temperature even with air and/or ash door wide open.

Never leave a coal stove when air is wide open, it can and will burn hotter than blacktop in Georgia in August.

My stove always operated at LOW stack temperatures, I could put my hand on the pipe for a short time most of the time, except when I had a ragin' coal fire, otherwise the pipe stayed pretty cool.

DON'T DIG, POKE, MEDDLE, STIR, OR OTHERWISE THINK that messin' with the coal will do anything. It'll either take off in time with air, or the coal fire is out.

If you see glowing orange down in the coal bed, she'll come back up to burn with wide open air but it'll take some time.

When reloading an established coal fire, open the air, let 'er get going with visible flames, shake the grates til embers begin to fall into the ash pan, then load in stages on top the coal bed, keeping a hot spot, until stacked as high as you can get.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

Kittiykt sorry I wasn't more help I am still learning too.

Ansehnlich1 thank you. I still have 500lbs of hard coal left. I will try a coal bed 8" deep. With as cold as it is supposed to get here the next few days I may need it!!

Billy