Balto Gas and Electric Peak Rewards

[granpajohn]

This is a program that pays bill credits for having a cutout switch on the AC compressor. Purpose is to remotely turn it off during peak summer demand. They have had a similar program for many years which is now phasing out.

They offer 50%, 75%, or 100% cycling (whatever that means). I've had the old system for 10 years with no problem, but it was supposed to be a partial cycling.

So the question for the HVAC geniuses: When the compressor goes off, does the blower just spin futily? Any other advice?

I'm tempted to go with the 100%, because we don't AC much here.

The letter and brochure from BGE appears to have been written for or by a fifth grader, and doesn't give any info....

(Hope I've picked the best forum for this question)

 

[DBoon]

I'm not an HVAC expert, by any means, but if the compressor is off, then there is no compression/decompression of the working fluid taking place, which means that there is no heat in the fluid that must be sent though the cooling coils which the blower cools....therefore, no reason for the blower to turn on.

 

[Gooserider]

No definite data, but I would expect that most AC units have the blower controlled by the same circuit that controls the compressor, so shutting down the compressor should also turn of the blower as part of the deal... (If it isn't that way to begin with, I'd expect it could be made to do so w/o much trouble...)

Gooserider

 

[granpajohn]

Thanks for the replies......
I have a feeling that Goose is right about the circuit, and I'll probably go for the full cycle option. The bill discount is $25 per month for 4 months. The old program was $10. (Of course, it started back when $10 was a lot.)
After I placed this post, I got another BGE mailing with a similar deal on the electric water heater. That one's whacky because it's paying in the winter months when electric demand is low. The old program paid it in the summer. Also the water heater is much less money, (I think $7, but not sure.)
Thanks, again guys.

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks for the replies......
I have a feeling that Goose is right about the circuit, and I'll probably go for the full cycle option. The bill discount is $25 per month for 4 months. The old program was $10. (Of course, it started back when $10 was a lot.)
After I placed this post, I got another BGE mailing with a similar deal on the electric water heater. That one's whacky because it's paying in the winter months when electric demand is low. The old program paid it in the summer. Also the water heater is much less money, (I think $7, but not sure.)
Thanks, again guys.

Actually electric use hits a smaller peak during the winter - it isn't as bad as when everyone hits the AC units, but just about every fossil fuel heating system uses electric for blowers, pumps etc. Even a lot of wood setups have blowers or pumps... There is also the much more popular light bulb, that gets more use... The saving difference between winter and summer demand is that it tends to be more spread out since each house's heating will tend to be on it's own cycle, you don't get the heavy peak hit of everyone hitting the AC switch in mid-afternoon...

I can see the benefit to the power co. in having the ability to load shift people's hot water demand...

Gooserider

 

[Redox]

Hey GP! Thanks for the invite. Here's what I know and what I suspect, as I haven't had a look at the new controls.

The first generation switches would just shut off the compressor. It was a simple 4 wire connection to the contactor and it would leave the fan running. It COULD be wired to shut down the entire system, but trying to convince a BGE sub to do it this way would probably be a waste of time. They view any rewiring of the DCU as meter fraud and, well, you don't want to go there.

The new generation has two means of controlling your unit. One is the familiar black box outside on the unit that shuts off just the condensing unit. It is a little more sophisticated than the old box, but does pretty much the same thing. It can't shut down the fan as there is no fan wiring in the outdoor unit. The other way is a special programmable thermostat that has some kind of receiver in it (IP based?) that lets them control the entire system. IIRC, you can set it up so that you can call them to change setpoints and such, but I don't have details. Otherwise, it is just a very nice programmable stat that may let you shut down the fan during a peak event. It is based on the Honeywell Visionpro which has all kinds of parameters you can play with and the fan cycling should be easy to incorporate if they haven't done it already. I haven't seen one to play with it yet.

My sister is signing up for the program and I will go check it out when I can. I heard that they were going to be forcing everyone with the first generation switches over to the new ones, but I suspect that they are having problems getting the hardware installed in time for this summer's heat. I just got a mailing that seemed to indicate that they would be continuing the old program, but at a reduced rate ($7/mo) as an incentive to get you to switch. I haven't done it yet as I have been planning to try to talk them into using my standby generator as a peak shaving device, but that's another topic. I do know that BGE pays commercial accounts to do this and pay very well for the right to do so.

They apparently will let you sign up for an aggressive program and let you step down if you are not happy with it. The starting incentive is $100 for the 100% program and you might be able to keep the incentive if you step down; time will tell. I think they are being rather flexible with the program right now and are trying to get as many people involved as possible and not tick them off. If you think you can afford to lose your AC entirely from about 2PM till about 8PM, go for the 100% program.

I think it would work in my case because I am cooling the house way down at night and letting it drift up during the day. It's a game I'm playing with the time-of-use meter and I think it's working pretty well, but that's a thread for another day....

 

[BrotherBart]

Interesting discussion. My electric co-op here in Northern Virginia has 45,000 of the old devices installed and has since 1979. They don't give ya squat for it being there. They will fix your water heater if it breaks or send somebody to look and say it wasn't their fault before you call the A/C repair guy for your trashed HVAC unit. :coolsmirk:

 

[granpajohn]

I just knew Mr. Redox would be wise to the ways of BGE; thanks for replying.

I'm pretty sure I've used the Honeywell Visionpro at work. But, over Christmas, we moved from Baltimore to Catonsville, (from a 100 year old brick warehouse to a LEED building), so the HVAC is quite different.

FWIW I installed my first programmable T-stat in 1988 at the old house, and want to recommend it. I've never tired of pushing that button to see how much it ran yesterday. Nuts maybe, but I like it. Anyway, I plan to go with the compressor switch, and I'll just hope for the best on the spinning blower. If it becomes a problem, I'll upgrade, but I like the T-stat I have now. It's a Hunter, because at the time we moved here, even the best Honeywell didn't have the record-of-use feature, and I must have that.

Re: BB's comment...We had thought this program might become mandatory, but I think users would disable the devices, so the billing credit is a bit of a bribe to keep you going. Also, I don't think the thing has been activated more than once or twice since we moved to AAcounty. BTW, at the old house, I kept repairing a beat, old, rusting Tappan AC unit. When I tried to enroll in the Peak program, they apparently sent a contractor to install the switch and he determined the old thing was too tired and rusted to accept it.The nerve! I finally had a contractor replace the whole system when the compressor locked up for good. Then we moved a year or 2 later.