Baseboard heating layout opinion - Biomass 40

[EricO]

Hello all who would love to add thoughts and opinions. So I'm designing the baseboard system that will be installed in our old farm house. I've already done the heat loss calculations, and math for the baseboards, etc. What I would like feedback on is your opinions about layout designs. I've got two main options in mind, the first being a simple 2 loop design. I know I loose some of my individual room temp control, but the way my house is laid out, I would be able to easily make the room i want the warmest at the front of the loop, and coldest at the back of the loop. Also, one of the loops would be 3 "living room" type rooms that are open to each other, so I'm thinking they would mix well to begin with.

Second option is individual zones for each. This will be the more expensive route I'm assuming. I'm still trying to figure out how to control the zones, whether i should use the thermostat controllers that go on the elements, or another method. Your opinions here are greatly welcomed as well!

Final option would be a mixture of the two i guess? On large zone, and 3 small zones?

I will be heating primarily with a Biomass 40 wood boiler, 500+ gallons of storage, propane back up boiler (i'd like to have a small thermal buffer tank for the propane as well). Designing it to be low operating temp on the baseboards so i can get longer heating life from the boiler/storage. Not planning on using glycol, would like to be able to circulate to the wood boiler which will be in an unheated garage.

Let me know what you think of my two designs so far. I was using Taco's Hvac solutions softwhere (the free version)
Thanks everybody!
Eric

 

[alaskawild]

Eric...

Hello. Just thought I'd share some ideas that I have used in the past that you may find of use. Take a look at Pensotti's euro radiators. Since you stated you are trying to get as much time as possible out of your storage tank this is a good way to get closer to a low temp (floor) setup without actually doing floor heat. Pensotti has a great temperature correction chart for running their radiators at lower temps so you can see what size you would need to use to meet your btu requirements at a lower supply temp. The issue you will find going this route is that without using some type of mixing, when your tank is at its highest temp you will have instant heat from the oversized radiators but as the temp drops so will the heat output. I've installed them both ways and I would lean toward a mixing valve. Just seems to be more comfortable overall to me.
I'm attaching the Pensotti install manual and a copy of an article along with drawings concerning interconnecting a wood boiler with a LP mod/con. I've used variances of this setup for a number of years and it works great. It will give you some good ideas. Best of luck!

 

[EricO]

Thanks for the info alaskawild. I've actaully read that article before, maybe it was you that posted it on someone else's post? But either way, I liked what it had to say, and was something i would like to incorporate.

You brought up a good point about the burst of heat from oversized elements. I've been contemplating how to get around being cooked, and then too cool. What type of mixing valve did you use? I'm assuming it would work by directing the excess heated water directly to the storage tank, and only allowing water of the correct temp into the floorboards or radiator? is that correct?

 

[WoodChoppa]

Nice diagrams. Which program did you use to produce those?

 

[alaskawild]

Hello Eric...


I've used just about everything out there. For what I think you have in mind I believe a simple 5000 series TACO mixing valve would work just fine. If you are looking for really precise temp control you are looking for a motorized mixing valve. If you desire you can incorporate outdoor rest into the motorized versions. But for the money and what you describe I'd go with something like the 5000. Around $100.00.
A mixing valve works by returning water (glycol if you us it) that has already been thru your radiators and mixes a portion of it with incoming water from your storage supply. This tempers the supply water to whatever temp you select. It will still take the same number of btu's to satisfy your demand but it spreads your storage use out over a longer time. As I said the motorized versions of mixing valves are much more precise but I think you would be fine with a manual setup. Of course if you have another couple hundred dollars I like motorized.
Oh I'm going to use 2 Taco motorized three ways in my gasification setup. Needed 2 for the required CV. I'm running a mod/con currently at 120 degrees.
I don't think I answered your original question! Sorry! Look at the Pensotti info I sent. There are numerous ways to run and control what you are looking at. Thermostatic valve on radiators is easy or t-stat to zone valves. Numerous piping options shown in Pensotti manual. They can be incorporated into other brands and styles.

 

[alaskawild]

WoodChoppa...

Wish I could take credit for the diagrams. LOL! Just a copy of an article I read from years back. I use mostly the Taco FloPro for my diagrams.

 

[alaskawild]

Eric...

Forgot something. I think you are looking at trying to keep some heat in your storage tank because it is in an unheated area. Am I correct? If so I would not try heating the storage tank with your propane setup. This is a huge waste of energy. Go with the buffer tank. Believe me this is the way to do this! We have -55 and lower temps here and there is a better way to supply heat to your unheated area. Install radiation (radiator) in the storage tank area and feed it from the buffer tank. From the manifold that will supply your house attach a zone valve controlled by a simple wall t-stat in the room with the 500 gallon storage tank. Your propane boiler will easily carry the 25 gallon buffer tank but you will be asking a lot of it to heat 500 gallons of storage! You only need enough heat to keep it from freezing and as the room cools this would be the only time there was a call for heat. Just a suggestion.

 

[alaskawild]

WoodChoopa...

LOL. I just figured out you were speaking about Eric! Sorry!

 

[EricO]

WoodChoopa...

LOL. I just figured out you were speaking about Eric! Sorry!

Thanks for all the input Alaskawild. It has been fun learning all this new information, if not a bit overwhelming at times. I. Regards to the thermal tank, it will just be in my basement, so any residual heat loss will at least go to some good Use. And no I don't want to heat it with propain.

If woodchippa was referring to my schematics, then I used tacos flow pro hvac program. It's free if you google it. Doesn't have all the features that the pro version has, but it has enough to get you started.