Basement Install

[Battenkiller]

OK, no flak about basement installs. I've been burning in the basement for 21 years now and it works for me. I'm finally moving to a new place that actually has room for a stove upstairs, but there is already a nice Harmon pellet stove installed in the LR. The place is only 1248 sq.ft, and has nice, tight construction (modern modular home) with R-19 walls and R-38 in the ceiling. There is R-25 glass between the floor joists as well. So, I'm thinking I can heat most of the season just using the pellet stove.

If I go that route I am going to want to put a wood stove in the basement where my shop will be. Problem is that right now it is uninsulated, with poured concrete walls. It is a walkout basement, with a large area that is all above grade, therefore making it even harder to heat. I'll be slowly framing out 2x4 walls, adding insulation and sheetrock over it all, but I doubt I'll get much done by spring. The plan is to put a nice soapstone stove down there, in the area that will be the recreation room.

Now, I've been heating with wood exclusively for over 25 years in two different places, but I've never has to do more than plug a stove and pipe into an existing thimble and run her. Now I'm suddenly at newbie status, because I haven't a clue how to do any kind of modern install. I'm not counting on getting much heat into the upstairs living area, but we'll want to hang down there much of the winter once I finish off the basement. I need the warmth from the stove to handle the downstairs only. What are the install options?

 

[BrowningBAR]

OK, no flak about basement installs. I've been burning in the basement for 21 years now and it works for me. I'm finally moving to a new place that actually has room for a stove upstairs, but there is already a nice Harmon pellet stove installed in the LR. The place is only 1248 sq.ft, and has nice, tight construction (modern modular home) with R-19 walls and R-38 in the ceiling. There is R-25 glass between the floor joists as well. So, I'm thinking I can heat most of the season just using the pellet stove.

If I go that route I am going to want to put a wood stove in the basement where my shop will be. Problem is that right now it is uninsulated, with poured concrete walls. It is a walkout basement, with a large area that is all above grade, therefore making it even harder to heat. I'll be slowly framing out 2x4 walls, adding insulation and sheetrock over it all, but I doubt I'll get much done by spring. The plan is to put a nice soapstone stove down there, in the area that will be the recreation room.

Now, I've been heating with wood exclusively for over 25 years in two different places, but I've never has to do more than plug a stove and pipe into an existing thimble and run her. Now I'm suddenly at newbie status, because I haven't a clue how to do any kind of modern install. I'm not counting on getting much heat into the upstairs living area, but we'll want to hang down there much of the winter once I finish off the basement. I need the warmth from the stove to handle the downstairs only. What are the install options?

Is this the same home you posted pics on a month or so ago? If so, congrats!

Once the basement has been updated that would be great spot for a soapstone stove. Uninsulated it will be tough unless you oversize the hell out of the stove... which will be a problem when you finish you updates.

Can you bring the Vigilant with you for this winter and update the stove when the remodeling is completed?

 

[BrowningBAR]

If the Vigilant isn't an option, what if you went with a cheaper steel stove for this winter which will give you quick heat and then sell it next fall and pick up an appropriate sized soapstone stove like you want?

 

[BrotherBart]

Methinks you are talking about chimney options. Right?

 

[BrowningBAR]

Methinks you are talking about chimney options. Right?

I think he is asking about both, but I am no expert when it comes to install options and guidelines.

 

[Battenkiller]

Yes, it's the same place. We just got word that the other party has a written contract on the property they want, so they lifted the contingency and we can move forward. Needless to say, we are stoked.

I thought about the possibility of using the Vigilant, but I want to put in 6" chimney and I'm not sure how well the Vig would do with only 6". Anyway, I sold it to my current landlord already. If I go Woodstock I can get a good deal if I buy now. I wouldn't mind having to run an electric space heater to supplement in the evenings for the first year, and I work pretty hard in the shop so I don't mind if the basement is a bit cold in the daytime.

How do folks install a stove in a basement that has no chimney already installed? Do you run it through the 8" concrete wall and go with Class A all the way up? If so, how do you get through the concrete? Or do you try to run it through a closet on the main floor and then go through the roof? Like I said, I'm clueless.

 

[Battenkiller]

Yeah, BroB, chimney options.

 

[pen]

I'd say chimney options are going to depend on a floor layout. Willing to go straight up and out the center (like through a closet?) or does this have to be on an outside wall?

How often are you going to use this space? If it's occasional, I'd want something to spread heat quicker than soapstone might be able to.

pen

 

[BrowningBAR]

Yes, it's the same place. We just got word that the other party has a written contract on the property they want, so they lifted the contingency and we can move forward. Needless to say, we are stoked.

I thought about the possibility of using the Vigilant, but I want to put in 6" chimney and I'm not sure how well the Vig would do with only 6". Anyway, I sold it to my current landlord already. If I go Woodstock I can get a good deal if I buy now. I wouldn't mind having to run an electric space heater to supplement in the evenings for the first year, and I work pretty hard in the shop so I don't mind if the basement is a bit cold in the daytime.

How do folks install a stove in a basement that has no chimney already installed? Do you run it through the 8" concrete wall and go with Class A all the way up? If so, how do you get through the concrete? Or do you try to run it through a closet on the main floor and then go through the roof? Like I said, I'm clueless.

I am running the Vigilant with a 6" liner and it does well. But that may not hold true for everyone. As far as basement installs go, there were a few poster here that recently installed a 30 in their basement. They went through the wall and Class A just as you described.

 

[Danno77]

Call some rental places, see if anybody has a concrete core drill and go straight through the foundation. Never done it myself, but I've heard it's not too bad of a job.

 

[Battenkiller]

I'd say chimney options are going to depend on a floor layout. Willing to go straight up and out the center (like through a closet?) or does this have to be on an outside wall?

How often are you going to use this space? If it's occasional, I'd want something to spread heat quicker than soapstone might be able to.

pen

Good point about the soapstone. I spend the better part of most days in the shop, and I plan on being busier in this new place (I'll have to be, or go broke with the higher living costs). So chances are I'll have it going low most all day long.

I'd always rather have an inside chimney if possible, but there is another voice I'll have to listen to in this matter. Maybe I can run it through my own closet and she won't complain too hard. I dont have a big wardrobe anyway - several pairs of jeans, a couple dozen t-shirts, and a suit for when somebody either gets married or croaks.

What are some other disadvantages of going out and up besides a colder flue?

 

[precaud]

Hi BK, congrats on your new place.

What are some other disadvantages of going out and up besides a colder flue?

Expense. That's a lotta Class A to go up and clear the roof, not to mention Class A thimble and elbow, and lots of brackets and braces. I faced the same thing 3 years ago in my basement. If there's any way to keep it inside the structure, I would do so. Easier to clean a chimney without elbows, too.

 

[BrotherBart]

Go out and up. I cannot see eating living space for a basement chimney. Come real winter having to kick start the draft once ain't no thing.

 

[bogydave]

Any heat will be better than no heat.

When you go thru the concrete, make sure no "J" bolt (foundation bolts) where you are going to cut thru.
Hammer drill & a bunch of 1/4" holes, 1/2" apart in a circle about 1" larger than the size you need, Then use a 1/2" bit in the holes & knock out the center.
You can put a piece of pipe that the thru wall flue pipe with fit thru, in the hole & fill the outside of the pipe with ready mix. Some thin stove rope around the thru wall flue to seal it.
Or just use the thru wall flue pipe & wrap/seal with stove rope. Put a nice cover over it all to hide the roughness of the hole.

Oh yea, + hope you don't hit rebar, Then it just takes a little longer. & comes out in several pieces

 

[Battenkiller]

Now I can't wait until the inspections so I can get back in the place to check out the floor plan better. I'm not sure where all the closets are. If I can go along the inside wall of one and get a clear shot straight up it wouldn't really bother me to go with it inside. For me, closets are where you store things like the old view camera I don't use anymore, not clothes. I could spare a 12" square section in the corner of one without losing much of anything.

 

[thewoodlands]

We had two options with our basement install, go straight up which would of put the pipe in one of the guest rooms,through the attic and out through the roof or jack hammer a hole out the cellar wall (which we had them do) then straight up from there.

I'm sure you will look in to your clearance issues first, we could have went either way with it except we wanted the guest room without the pipe taking up extra space in the room.

We are glad we picked through the wall then straight up.

zap

 

[Battenkiller]

Man, I was just checking out prices on Class A. Holy moley! $40/linear foot? Plus, those fittings are through the roof. lol Certainly would cut into the whisky budget for a while. Maybe I need to sit back and have another pour right now.

I can certainly see advantages to either way. Kinda like what is better, splitting vertical or horizontal. %-P

 

[DexterDay]

I went out and up with my 30-NC. I dont have poured walls, but agree with what was wrote above about drilling holes and punching out the center (what I did).

I can easily keep the basement 85-90 (yep 90*) its in the only unfinished portion (800 sq ft). As for cleaning, the soot-eater has made short work of it (did it once already for giggles)

Can post a link later (on phone/kinda hard) but the thread had Englander 30-NC Install in the title (probably about 35 of those threads this year.LOL)

As for the Harman pellet stove. Do you know what model. I remember your thread about the house. As I asked what brand it was then. But you never mentioned model. If its a P-43 or anything bigger, you should have no problems heating your place. You may even come to like the pellet thing.

I had lots of photos from my install. From the hole in the wall, to adding the brackets to the Class A (didnt want to cut my eve/overhang) had to make some custom brackets and everything inbetween.

 

[fishinpa]

I have a quad 4300 in my unfinished basement and it has made the space very livable, as there was no heat downstairs previously.

If you house is that tight, don't forget to think about putting an OAK in as well.

Starting my 3rd winter with my stove I decided to put one in and the difference is HUGE already.

Although I have not done the final permanent thru-wall installation yet, I decided to have a bit of a test run with all the components here. I popped out one of the small windows by the stove and tightly fit a piece of foam inslation there. To the foam I fit a 4" flange, (toilet flange) then fitted the other components to that and down to the stove.

The stove comes to temp faster, burns better and I feel I have more control when dialing it down once it is hot.

Good luck!

NOTE: There was a fireplace down there with an 'outside' block chimney aready, so we ripped out the heatalator/fireplace setup and ran a 6" insulated stove pipe down the chimney put a T in and plumbed the stove to that. Sorry that I have no chimney suggestions for you.

(Hey, maybe I did have a suggeastion for you situation after all!)

 

[Danno77]

I went out and up with my 30-NC. I dont have poured walls, but agree with what was wrote above about drilling holes and punching out the center (what I did).

I can easily keep the basement 85-90 (yep 90*) its in the only unfinished portion (800 sq ft). As for cleaning, the soot-eater has made short work of it (did it once already for giggles)

Can post a link later (on phone/kinda hard) but the thread had Englander 30-NC Install in the title (probably about 35 of those threads this year.LOL)

As for the Harman pellet stove. Do you know what model. I remember your thread about the house. As I asked what brand it was then. But you never mentioned model. If its a P-43 or anything bigger, you should have no problems heating your place. You may even come to like the pellet thing.

I had lots of photos from my install. From the hole in the wall, to adding the brackets to the Class A (didnt want to cut my eve/overhang) had to make some custom brackets and everything inbetween.

Here ya go:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/78291/P0/

 

[Battenkiller]

Thanks for the link, Danno. Lucky me to have such a detailed thread to study.

 

[tcassavaugh]

out and up.....and the only other thing i would recommend is that you think about if you would might ever want to get a bigger stove in the future to where you might need an 8" pipe. i have a six and would like to get a Blaze King which requires an 8 in pipe so the options are opt for a different stove or, get a bigger pipe.

i punched mine out with a ball peen hammer, punch and chisel. my aim got better as the day went by but at the end of the day i had really busted on my knuckels and hands. would woud have hought they were broke the way they swelled up, even with the gloves on. rent an air hammer!



cass

 

[Battenkiller]

Can post a link later (on phone/kinda hard) but the thread had Englander 30-NC Install in the title (probably about 35 of those threads this year.LOL)

As for the Harman pellet stove. Do you know what model. I remember your thread about the house. As I asked what brand it was then. But you never mentioned model. If its a P-43 or anything bigger, you should have no problems heating your place. You may even come to like the pellet thing.

DD, Danno posted the link. Nice, clear explanations and pics. A great contribution to the site.

The Harmon is a P-61. Supposed to put out like 60K BTUs. I always liked the pellet idea, but the first time I priced them out I had to go to the ER because of chest pains. My wood stove for 18 years was a freebie Jotul box stove knockoff. Most of that time I bought wood at about $75/cord and supplemented with what I could cut locally, so pellet cost was a factor as well. Plus, they never felt that hot standing next to them in the showroom. Never occurred to me at the time that these things run full time. Continuous low-medium output trumps cyclic low-high output at the end of the day. But I also love to bake by the stove when I'm chilled to the bone from being outside.

While I've resisted buying a pellet stove in this place for all those reasons, I see no harm in leaving this one in place for a season or two to see how I like it. Having a stove in the basement will satisfy my cordwood jones while the unit upstairs can churn out the heat all day long. And if the current owners want to forget about the 3 ton of pellets they have stored in the basement right now... I don't have to remind them, do i?

 

[DexterDay]

Can post a link later (on phone/kinda hard) but the thread had Englander 30-NC Install in the title (probably about 35 of those threads this year.LOL)

As for the Harman pellet stove. Do you know what model. I remember your thread about the house. As I asked what brand it was then. But you never mentioned model. If its a P-43 or anything bigger, you should have no problems heating your place. You may even come to like the pellet thing.

DD, Danno posted the link. Nice, clear explanations and pics. A great contribution to the site.

The Harmon is a P-61. Supposed to put out like 60K BTUs. I always liked the pellet idea, but the first time I priced them out I had to go to the ER because of chest pains. My wood stove for 18 years was a freebie Jotul box stove knockoff. Most of that time I bought wood at about $75/cord and supplemented with what I could cut locally, so pellet cost was a factor as well. Plus, they never felt that hot standing next to them in the showroom. Never occurred to me at the time that these things run full time. Continuous low-medium output trumps cyclic low-high output at the end of the day. But I also love to bake by the stove when I'm chilled to the bone from being outside.

While I've resisted buying a pellet stove in this place for all those reasons, I see no harm in leaving this one in place for a season or two to see how I like it. Having a stove in the basement will satisfy my cordwood jones while the unit upstairs can churn out the heat all day long. And if the current owners want to forget about the 3 ton of pellets they have stored in the basement right now... I don't have to remind them, do i?

Nope. Dont remind them. That included in the house cost... lol

The automation of pellet stoves is nice. I will still use the pellet stove. But the woodstove is to reduce my consumption. As of right now. I have only used 4 bags of pellets. Without the 30-NC. It would prob be closer to 9-12 bags.

They require maintenance. Yes... But its almost a crapshoot between the time messing with a woodstove every day for a week. Add that time up, and you will get more time than what it takes to do your weekly - bi-weekly cleanings. Just add pellets once a day and your good.

Keep us updated. And yes, the P-61 is rated at 61,000 BTU's. Its one down from Harmans largest. The P-68. They are beasts.

 

[leeave96]

Yes, it's the same place. We just got word that the other party has a written contract on the property they want, so they lifted the contingency and we can move forward. Needless to say, we are stoked.

I thought about the possibility of using the Vigilant, but I want to put in 6" chimney and I'm not sure how well the Vig would do with only 6". Anyway, I sold it to my current landlord already. If I go Woodstock I can get a good deal if I buy now. I wouldn't mind having to run an electric space heater to supplement in the evenings for the first year, and I work pretty hard in the shop so I don't mind if the basement is a bit cold in the daytime.

How do folks install a stove in a basement that has no chimney already installed? Do you run it through the 8" concrete wall and go with Class A all the way up? If so, how do you get through the concrete? Or do you try to run it through a closet on the main floor and then go through the roof? Like I said, I'm clueless.

With my new basement, I went through the wall with a Selkirk Metalbest 6 inch insulated kit and pipe going up. Pretty easy to install, though I had to scratch my head a few times. I got my pipe from dynimite buys and my kit from true value hardware online (could have been do-it best hardware) and saved a lot of $$$. For decorative reasons, the exterior pipe is in a wood/vinyl chase.

If you are set on a Woodstock, I'd go ahead and pull the trigger on it before the sale goes off. Without a doubt, my Woodstock Keystone is far and away the best woodstove I've ever used.

Nice thing about the cat stove is you can burn it hot and once you get your basement insulated, you can dial the stove down to regulate the heat.

Good luck,
Bill