Basement vs. Living room for wood insert?

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gyrfalcon said:
emt1581 said:
gyrfalcon said:
emt1581 said:
gyrfalcon said:
As I understand it, the tax credit is a total of $1,500 per filer, but you should read the post about it at the top of the first page of the Hearth Room forum and check with your tax accountant.

Seems like the gubmint reeeallly doesn't want to give out more than $1500 per household on this deal. So if we buy the stove up front and don't get it installed, we can either get a really nice one and take the entire $1500 credit or we can be a nice one and get around $750-$1000 out of the deal. Either way we'd lose the credit's portion of the installation fees.

-Emt1581

Just a suggestion? Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Getting "only* $750 bucks back on your purchase is nothing to sneeze at.

I don't want to turn this political but I'll be damned if I'll call this gov. a "gift horse". Say that when Bush's tax cuts expire and your taxes go through the roof! Think the gov. will be grateful for all the extra money it's forcing you to pay for the same (SNAFU'd) services?

-Emt1581

Oh, so glad you don't want to turn this political. Pffftt.

That wasn't political. We can go there if you want though. But I took what you said to mean "mind your manners and/or be greatful", to which I guess I should have replied.... Pfffft.

-Emt1581
 
I can hardly wait until this thread is available on BluRay.
 
DeePee said:
I can hardly wait until this thread is available on BluRay.

I got the boot leg copy already. PM me if interested. :)

-Emt1581
 
emt1581 said:
DeePee said:
I can hardly wait until this thread is available on BluRay.

I got the boot leg copy already. PM me if interested. :)

Spoilers? Did you end up with a stove or insert; basement or living room?
 
DeePee said:
emt1581 said:
DeePee said:
I can hardly wait until this thread is available on BluRay.

I got the boot leg copy already. PM me if interested. :)

Spoilers? Did you end up with a stove or insert; basement or living room?

At this point the stove idea is dead for the living room, the fireplace in the basement is getting measured for an insert, and the insert bought for that fireplace isn't going to be installed but rather kept until such time that it's found NOT to fit in the (future) fireplace to be built in the living room. Bet you didn't see that ending coming... ;)

BTW, this thread is just the tip of the iceberg. I mean it really was helpful in getting me started but now we have to figure out models, finishes, BTU's, etc. So I'll probably do another month or two of researching tween here, the local stores and online before picking one out.

-Emt1581
 
I agree that we need better than SNAFU, but the reality is that we're not going to get out of the mess we're in by cutting taxes and running everything into the ground. That said, this is the Hearth room. Buy 2 stoves and get the full $. It has been scientifically proven that burning trees saves the planet. I don't see how a stove could negatively affect resale value by more than the $100 you might have to pay to have it hauled away if you were unable to sell it. Building a fireplace for an insert. . . might as well put the $ into a masonry heater. www.vermontwoodstove.com If an insert boosts resale, a masonry heater would send it through the roof. :)
 
Hope you'll be providing free therapy to balance out forum karma.
 
BeGreen said:
Hope you'll be providing free therapy to balance out forum karma.

Did I say something earlier in the thread about therapy or did you catch something I wrote last night before the edit?? ;)

-Emt1581
 
BeGreen said:
Hope you'll be providing free therapy to balance out forum karma.

Its like the forum knows about that one time we threw a split in the fire and it sizzled.
 
Den said:
I agree that we need better than SNAFU, but the reality is that we're not going to get out of the mess we're in by cutting taxes and running everything into the ground. That said, this is the Hearth room,

Of course tax increases are a necessary evil sometimes, but watch what happens and see if "increase" is the appropriate word you'd use for it.

As far as getting out of the mess we're in...God only knows.... but it should be one hell of a show either way!! Pray for the best and prepare for the worst.

-Emt1581
 
emt1581 said:
At this point the stove idea is dead for the living room, the fireplace in the basement is getting measured for an insert, and the insert bought for that fireplace isn't going to be installed but rather kept until such time that it's found NOT to fit in the (future) fireplace to be built in the living room. Bet you didn't see that ending coming... ;)

BTW, this thread is just the tip of the iceberg. I mean it really was helpful in getting me started but now we have to figure out models, finishes, BTU's, etc. So I'll probably do another month or two of researching tween here, the local stores and online before picking one out.

-Emt1581

I'm confused now. Are we talking about 2 different inserts, or are you buying an insert to fit the basement fireplace, but not installing it, in the hopes that it will fit the living room future fireplace?

My head hurts, where do I sign up for that therapy?
 
daleeper said:
I'm confused now. Are we talking about 2 different inserts, or are you buying an insert to fit the basement fireplace, but not installing it, in the hopes that it will fit the living room future fireplace?

Yup, that's it in a nutshell. That way I figure we're covered either way. My question now is how easily is it for a mason to build a fireplace of a certain size? I mean the size and shape of the chimney is the same on both levels (basement/main level) so I'd think it'd be relatively easy to do.

My head hurts, where do I sign up for that therapy?

Where did this idea of therapy show up in the thread??

-Emt1581
 
Inserts are designed to fit in a wide variety of fireplaces. As long as the cavity is within the range of design, the insert will fit. Download some insert manuals to learn more about this. The idea of building a new fireplace just to move an assumed existing insert is what makes my head hurt.

Frankly, the idea of building a new fireplace just to fit the insert seems a bit silly when a freestanding stove is likely to do a better job of heating, without needing power. If having a fireplace is paramount, then why not install a modern, high efficiency epa zero-clearance unit? It will cost less and will do a good job.
 
BeGreen said:
Inserts are designed to fit in a wide variety of fireplaces. As long as the cavity is within the range of design, the insert will fit. Download some insert manuals to learn more about this. The idea of building a new fireplace just to move an assumed existing insert is what makes my head hurt.

Frankly, the idea of building a new fireplace just to fit the insert seems a bit silly when a freestanding stove is likely to do a better job of heating, without needing power. If having a fireplace is paramount, then why not install a modern, high efficiency epa zero-clearance unit? It will cost less and will do a good job.

See post 191.

-Emt1581
 
I don't buy that premise as applicable to a well done installation with a quality stove.
 
emt1581 said:
daleeper said:
I'm confused now. Are we talking about 2 different inserts, or are you buying an insert to fit the basement fireplace, but not installing it, in the hopes that it will fit the living room future fireplace?

Yup, that's it in a nutshell. That way I figure we're covered either way. My question now is how easily is it for a mason to build a fireplace of a certain size? I mean the size and shape of the chimney is the same on both levels (basement/main level) so I'd think it'd be relatively easy to do.

My head hurts, where do I sign up for that therapy?

Where did this idea of therapy show up in the thread??

-Emt1581

Not sure where this therapy business came from but somebody needs it (not sure who).

I just have real difficulty thinking someone with a limited budget and wants to heat a house would even consider installing a brick fireplace, plan to install an insert later, and expect either to heat a house with any efficiency. In fact, that brick fireplace by itself will most likely have a negative impact on heating the house, and the insert is a compromise. Either get a high efficiency epa listed zero clearance fireplace that has a look that pleases the wife, or a real epa listed wood stove. Forget anything about a brick laid fireplace and an insert in the living room upstairs.
 
daleeper said:
I just have real difficulty thinking someone with a limited budget

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. We are limited NOW. Once our current home sells that will no longer be the case. However, we want to be able to take advantage of the credit so that means buying in the next few months regardless.

and wants to heat a house would even consider installing a brick fireplace, plan to install an insert later, and expect either to heat a house with any efficiency. In fact, that brick fireplace by itself will most likely have a negative impact on heating the house, and the insert is a compromise. Either get a high efficiency epa listed zero clearance fireplace that has a look that pleases the wife, or a real epa listed wood stove.

Just in looking through pics on the forum I've seen a few people that connect their stove (pipe) to a fireplace. This might be a valid idea if eye-appeal is an issue when we go to sell. Just disconnect it and take it out. It still leaves future buyers the option to do what they want...unless something needs to be welded and otherwise made permanent with a stove install.


Forget anything about a brick laid fireplace and an insert in the living room upstairs.

Why? What makes you say that? Between a living room and basement, the living room is clearly the more efficient of the two in terms of heating the upper two floors.

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
BeGreen said:
I don't buy that premise as applicable to a well done installation with a quality stove.

I think a lot has to do with area as well as individual buyers. However, when it comes to JUST looks... I would agree that a stove with a large black pipe being seen is less appealing than a semi/flush insert that looks minimally different from a regular fireplace.

As far as efficiency goes, I think a stove is a far better choice. I'm going to do more homework and have my realtor do more homework on this though.

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
emt1581 said:
daleeper said:
I just have real difficulty thinking someone with a limited budget

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. We are limited NOW. Once our current home sells that will no longer be the case. However, we want to be able to take advantage of the credit so that means buying in the next few months regardless.

and wants to heat a house would even consider installing a brick fireplace, plan to install an insert later, and expect either to heat a house with any efficiency. In fact, that brick fireplace by itself will most likely have a negative impact on heating the house, and the insert is a compromise. Either get a high efficiency epa listed zero clearance fireplace that has a look that pleases the wife, or a real epa listed wood stove.

Just in looking through pics on the forum I've seen a few people that connect their stove (pipe) to a fireplace. This might be a valid idea if eye-appeal is an issue when we go to sell. Just disconnect it and take it out. It still leaves future buyers the option to do what they want...unless something needs to be welded and otherwise made permanent with a stove install.


Forget anything about a brick laid fireplace and an insert in the living room upstairs.

Why? What makes you say that? Between a living room and basement, the living room is clearly the more efficient of the two in terms of heating the upper two floors.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Sorry that I was so blunt with the above statements.

I did assume that you had a limited budget and did not consider that it was short term while making the real estate transactions, but I am still a practical person, and it pains me to watch someone spend thousands of dollars laying a brick fireplace that will be a net heat loss unit, when there are other options available that look nice, heat well, and could be less expensive to install, and because budget is not a long term issue, the sky is the limit on what you can do there, evidently.

Yes, installing the stove/fireplace in the living room is clearly more efficient than trying to heat from the basement, but only if the unit is efficient. Ask yourself why inserts were invented, and do a search on heating with a fireplace, and you will find that a common fireplace is not efficient at all, and in fact the fireplace chimney can and usually is a source of heat loss. Why spend money to install a fireplace that will be a heat loss, when you can install something that will put out heat?
 
daleeper said:
Sorry that I was so blunt with the above statements.

I did assume that you had a limited budget and did not consider that it was short term while making the real estate transactions, but I am still a practical person, and it pains me to watch someone spend thousands of dollars laying a brick fireplace that will be a net heat loss unit, when there are other options available that look nice, heat well, and could be less expensive to install, and because budget is not a long term issue, the sky is the limit on what you can do there, evidently.

Yes, installing the stove/fireplace in the living room is clearly more efficient than trying to heat from the basement, but only if the unit is efficient. Ask yourself why inserts were invented, and do a search on heating with a fireplace, and you will find that a common fireplace is not efficient at all, and in fact the fireplace chimney can and usually is a source of heat loss. Why spend money to install a fireplace that will be a heat loss, when you can install something that will put out heat?

No need to apologize.


As I said though, I need to do what's most cost effective in terms of resale, not necessarily long term use. When we build, I will definitely go with a stove.

-Emt1581
 
A full masonry fireplace is gonna start at twenty grand. You ain't gonna do it so considering it is just wasted key strokes.
 
BrotherBart said:
A full masonry fireplace is gonna start at twenty grand. You ain't gonna do it so considering it is just wasted key strokes.

How do you know?

I'll also add that I've spoken to a few people and your numbers seem a bit high. But this house is an investment in the grand scheme of things. So long as I'll reap the benefits of something when I go to sell, and I can afford the upgrade, I'll go ahead and do it.

-Emt1581
 
Den said:
www.vermontwoodstove.com/msnyhtrs.htm If I were going to spend $15-20k assembling stone for a firebox, that's how I'd do it.

I appreciate the link. They seem morbid to me, like having an incinerator/crematorium in my living room. Just my opinion mind you.

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
Well, I think it's clear that you want what you want, regardless of functionality. . .which is fine, but I also think that your "resale" justification is flimsy. I seriously doubt that a fireplace is going to incrdease the resale value by as much as it cost to build.
 
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