Beginning New Install for PB105 ---- Some Early Pics

[SmokeEater]

Finally got enough help to put the Harman in the cellar. Took some work just to get the old wood, oil, coal hot air combo and ducts all out. Next came the install of the 7/8" radiant PEX that didn't want to bend into the 16" bays because it's only about 50 degrees in the cellar. Should have put that radiant up in July when it would have been easier to bend. Just organizing the fittings and such to install. Have to move the old electric tank out of the way to make room for the back up used Liberty. Plan is to connect both boilers separately to the Smart 100 that I want to use for a buffer tank and the DHW. I have pumps for each boiler and a Stainless Grundfos for the Smart to pump to a 50 plate HX for both radiant and higher temp radiators and baseboard. Maybe in a week or two the Harman can be fired up to supply some radiant at least.

 

[SmokeEater]

Finally got enough help to put the Harman in the cellar. Took some work just to get the old wood, oil, coal hot air combo and ducts all out. Next came the install of the 7/8" radiant PEX that didn't want to bend into the 16" bays because it's only about 50 degrees in the cellar. Should have put that radiant up in July when it would have been easier to bend. Just organizing the fittings and such to install. Have to move the old electric tank out of the way to make room for the back up used Liberty. Plan is to connect both boilers separately to the Smart 100 that I want to use for a buffer tank and the DHW. I have pumps for each boiler and a Stainless Grundfos for the Smart to pump to a 50 plate HX for both radiant and higher temp radiators and baseboard. Maybe in a week or two the Harman can be fired up to supply some radiant at least.

Here are a few more pics of the progress I'm making with the PB 105 install. Haven't done any of this before so things are going kinda slow. Cutting and threading this 1 1/4" black pipe is better than going to the gym! Can't wait to fire her up but it could take another week or two.

 

[huffdawg]

The smart 100 is a really high end buffer tank . I bought a smart 40 for my DHW and it wasn't cheap. Nice install by the way, looks good.

 

[SmokeEater]

The smart 100 is a really high end buffer tank . I bought a smart 40 for my DHW and it wasn't cheap. Nice install by the way, looks good.

I picked the Smart because of its ability to absorb big numbers of btus and because it has a lifetime residential warranty. So I thought that, even though it wasn't cheap, it should last some good long time without a lot of trouble. I'm going to use it for potable DHW also.

 

[woodsmaster]

I'm probably missing somthing, but why do you need the plate hx is that for the dhw or is thier a coil in the smart tank ?

 

[woodsmaster]

And by the way looks nice. Is that a pellet boiler ?

edit: duh thats what PB stands for.

 

[huffdawg]

I'm probably missing somthing, but why do you need the plate hx is that for the dhw or is thier a coil in the smart tank ?

The smart tank is basically a waterjacket around a tank of domestic water . No coil

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Smart tank, check the PDF document at this link http://www.triangletube.com/TriangleTubeProduct.aspx?CatID=6&PID=2

These tanks are made in Belgium by ACV.
They are private labled by many US companies that sell this concept tank

 

[SmokeEater]

I'm probably missing somthing, but why do you need the plate hx is that for the dhw or is thier a coil in the smart tank ?

There's no coil in the tank. There is an outer tank that is heated from the boiler(s) that heats an inner stainless tank. The plate HX is to pull heat out of the buffer tank to be sent to the baseboard and radiant tubing. Good observation.

 

[SmokeEater]

Finally got enough help to put the Harman in the cellar. Took some work just to get the old wood, oil, coal hot air combo and ducts all out. Next came the install of the 7/8" radiant PEX that didn't want to bend into the 16" bays because it's only about 50 degrees in the cellar. Should have put that radiant up in July when it would have been easier to bend. Just organizing the fittings and such to install. Have to move the old electric tank out of the way to make room for the back up used Liberty. Plan is to connect both boilers separately to the Smart 100 that I want to use for a buffer tank and the DHW. I have pumps for each boiler and a Stainless Grundfos for the Smart to pump to a 50 plate HX for both radiant and higher temp radiators and baseboard. Maybe in a week or two the Harman can be fired up to supply some radiant at least.

Here are a few more pics of the progress I'm making with the PB 105 install. Haven't done any of this before so things are going kinda slow. Cutting and threading this 1 1/4" black pipe is better than going to the gym! Can't wait to fire her up but it could take another week or two.

Making a little progress on the 105 install. If the weather was some colder I'd probably start earlier and finish later but with this mild winter I guess I'm not in a big "rush". Did some good today. Moved the electric water heater and put in a 1" Pex water supply line to cold and hot. Did some plumbing on the PB and got the Smart tank hooked up to 1 of the 2 boilers. Moved the little fossil boiler in place so I can start to plumb that up tomorrow. Waiting on a shipment from PexSupply to be able to finish up. Have a few more pics to put up for 'show and tell'.

 

[woodsmaster]

Nice plumbing, looks neatly done.

 

[maple1]

Where did you get those flex hoses?

And secondarily, how much did they cost?

I like 'em.

 

[SmokeEater]

Nice plumbing, looks neatly done.

Thanks Woodmaster for the pat on the back. Everybody needs one to keep the spirits up. The credit for taking a little extra time can be given to everyone contributing on the The Boiler Room Forum. Thanks to all.

 

[SmokeEater]

Where did you get those flex hoses?

And secondarily, how much did they cost?

I like 'em.

I probably should not have put them in because they were a little steep on price. I got them from Ace hose at [email protected] and with shipping they were about $125 each. They're dielectric and are 1 1/2' by 24" with a fixed male MPT on one end and a union femaie on the other with a gasket. I didn't know how to plumb the buffer tank up to the two boilers with els that would move with the heat expansion and contraction, so I decided to put the flex pipe in instead. Costly though.

 

[SmokeEater]

Making a little progress on the 105 install. If the weather was some colder I'd probably start earlier and finish later but with this mild winter I guess I'm not in a big "rush". Did some good today. Moved the electric water heater and put in a 1" Pex water supply line to cold and hot. Did some plumbing on the PB and got the Smart tank hooked up to 1 of the 2 boilers. Moved the little fossil boiler in place so I can start to plumb that up tomorrow. Waiting on a shipment from PexSupply to be able to finish up. Have a few more pics to put up for 'show and tell'.[/quote]

Got that PexSupply order and finished plumbing up the little fossil boiler. As you all know, it's not easy to install longer runs of big black iron and get the right lengths, make vertical vertical and horizontal horizontal! Also, I can't believe that I had over 25 ells and I've used most of them up. Just checkin my plans and I'm going to need another 25. Thought maybe I'd be firing her up this week, but it's going to take more time to finish the plumbing and then I've got to figure out the electrical. Anyway I have a few more pics of my slow progress. Want to thank all of you for all the info needed to put this together. Soon I'll find out if it works??

 

[thecontrolguy]

I probably should not have put them in because they were a little steep on price. I got them from Ace hose at [email protected] and with shipping they were about $125 each. They're dielectric and are 1 1/2' by 24" with a fixed male MPT on one end and a union femaie on the other with a gasket. I didn't know how to plumb the buffer tank up to the two boilers with els that would move with the heat expansion and contraction, so I decided to put the flex pipe in instead. Costly though.

I would not disagree with others, it is a nice looking job. However, as a suggestion, you might consider putting isolation valves before the flex lines so that the storage tank can be isolated should it need to be flushed, removed, or otherwise throttled before you fill the system and pressurize. Good luck!

 

[Noggah]

Smoke,

Great looking install. Good Job!

 

[SmokeEater]

I probably should not have put them in because they were a little steep on price. I got them from Ace hose at [email protected] and with shipping they were about $125 each. They're dielectric and are 1 1/2' by 24" with a fixed male MPT on one end and a union femaie on the other with a gasket. I didn't know how to plumb the buffer tank up to the two boilers with els that would move with the heat expansion and contraction, so I decided to put the flex pipe in instead. Costly though.

I would not disagree with others, it is a nice looking job. However, as a suggestion, you might consider putting isolation valves before the flex lines so that the storage tank can be isolated should it need to be flushed, removed, or otherwise throttled before you fill the system and pressurize. Good luck!

Controlguy, thanks for the acolade, everyone needs one, even if not worthy. I can isolate the smart tank with valves installed and the flex lines have a union connection on one end. The outer tank has only about 35 gal of water in it and I can drain that through the fossil boiler. Besides, the flex lines are 1 1/2" and I didn't want to have to buy those valves!

 

[SmokeEater]

Smoke,

Great looking install. Good Job!

Thanks, thanks, but will it work??

 

[SmokeEater]

Making a little progress on the 105 install. If the weather was some colder I'd probably start earlier and finish later but with this mild winter I guess I'm not in a big "rush". Did some good today. Moved the electric water heater and put in a 1" Pex water supply line to cold and hot. Did some plumbing on the PB and got the Smart tank hooked up to 1 of the 2 boilers. Moved the little fossil boiler in place so I can start to plumb that up tomorrow. Waiting on a shipment from PexSupply to be able to finish up. Have a few more pics to put up for 'show and tell'.

Got that PexSupply order and finished plumbing up the little fossil boiler. As you all know, it's not easy to install longer runs of big black iron and get the right lengths, make vertical vertical and horizontal horizontal! Also, I can't believe that I had over 25 ells and I've used most of them up. Just checkin my plans and I'm going to need another 25. Thought maybe I'd be firing her up this week, but it's going to take more time to finish the plumbing and then I've got to figure out the electrical. Anyway I have a few more pics of my slow progress. Want to thank all of you for all the info needed to put this together. Soon I'll find out if it works??[/quote]

I had said I thought I'd be ready to fire in a couple of weeks and that statement was made more than 2 weeks ago. Wishful desires. Things are slowly going together, but good progress is not always the order of the day. I've taken some of the plumbing out to retighten, re-fix, adjust, and so on. I thought it would only take a few hours to pressure test the radiant manifolds and tubing, but it took a day and a half. Had some leaks at 40 psi. I don't know what kind of pressures will be in the heating loops. Anyone, feel free to mention known pressures. I'm moving all of the water in the heating loops with a delta T 0012, if that's any help. My plan was to put all of the pumps close to each other to help keep shorter control and electrical lines (maybe they're too close!). My biggest fear now that I'm getting close to watering up is leaks. Here are a few more pics of the "boiler room". Thanks again for the forum and all the advice from members.

 

[SmokeEater]

Making a little progress on the 105 install. If the weather was some colder I'd probably start earlier and finish later but with this mild winter I guess I'm not in a big "rush". Did some good today. Moved the electric water heater and put in a 1" Pex water supply line to cold and hot. Did some plumbing on the PB and got the Smart tank hooked up to 1 of the 2 boilers. Moved the little fossil boiler in place so I can start to plumb that up tomorrow. Waiting on a shipment from PexSupply to be able to finish up. Have a few more pics to put up for 'show and tell'.

Got that PexSupply order and finished plumbing up the little fossil boiler. As you all know, it's not easy to install longer runs of big black iron and get the right lengths, make vertical vertical and horizontal horizontal! Also, I can't believe that I had over 25 ells and I've used most of them up. Just checkin my plans and I'm going to need another 25. Thought maybe I'd be firing her up this week, but it's going to take more time to finish the plumbing and then I've got to figure out the electrical. Anyway I have a few more pics of my slow progress. Want to thank all of you for all the info needed to put this together. Soon I'll find out if it works??

Wwwhheww!! Finished plumbing everything out to the radiant and the high temp manifolds. Used 80 feet of 1 1/4" black iron, not counting all the nipples, 45 els, many Ts. I think now that if I had to do it over, I might consider using copper. Even though its expensive, the time to do would be far less. Maybe not so if you have access to a power threader. Now I need to wire it all up and test the "water" (for leaks). Next pics, I hope, will be after the first fire.

 

[huffdawg]

Making a little progress on the 105 install. If the weather was some colder I'd probably start earlier and finish later but with this mild winter I guess I'm not in a big "rush". Did some good today. Moved the electric water heater and put in a 1" Pex water supply line to cold and hot. Did some plumbing on the PB and got the Smart tank hooked up to 1 of the 2 boilers. Moved the little fossil boiler in place so I can start to plumb that up tomorrow. Waiting on a shipment from PexSupply to be able to finish up. Have a few more pics to put up for 'show and tell'.

Got that PexSupply order and finished plumbing up the little fossil boiler. As you all know, it's not easy to install longer runs of big black iron and get the right lengths, make vertical vertical and horizontal horizontal! Also, I can't believe that I had over 25 ells and I've used most of them up. Just checkin my plans and I'm going to need another 25. Thought maybe I'd be firing her up this week, but it's going to take more time to finish the plumbing and then I've got to figure out the electrical. Anyway I have a few more pics of my slow progress. Want to thank all of you for all the info needed to put this together. Soon I'll find out if it works??

Wwwhheww!! Finished plumbing everything out to the radiant and the high temp manifolds. Used 80 feet of 1 1/4" black iron, not counting all the nipples, 45 els, many Ts. I think now that if I had to do it over, I might consider using copper. Even though its expensive, the time to do would be far less. Maybe not so if you have access to a power threader. Now I need to wire it all up and test the "water" (for leaks). Next pics, I hope, will be after the first fire.

Yup I here ya ,copper is a lot quicker and you can heat it up and manipulate it as well . I started out using black iron then bit the bullet and used copper . I have around $1400.00 worth of copper in my system . Now I get to let it pay for itself.

Nice neat work with the Black iron by the way. good to get up and running

Huff

 

[thinktwicez71]

very nice job !

 

[SmokeEater]

very nice job !

Thank's, guess I don't know how to respond. This job is nearly complete at this time. Just need to finish up wiring up the pumps, thermostats, and zone valves and then I'll be able to water up and repair leaks. I'd prefer none, but Murphy's Law will probably prevail. If all goes well, I might see a fire this week!

 

[jebatty]

Have to add my "looks great - job well done" also.

When I saw your post that said 80' of 1.25, 45 L's, many T's, I began to think about pump head. Have you done a pump head calculation, equivalent feet, # of gpm you need to move to handle the btu output, size of circulator(s) you need? 80' + 45 L's (? T's - each adds 7'; + other fittings, valves, plate hx, etc.) adds up to about 250' of equivalent pipe length. 1.25 is normally rated at 14 gpm, which is 140,000 btuH at delta-T=20F. Line loss (pump head) for 250' is about 13' at 14 gpm. Take a look at your system design as to sizing circulators to make sure you get the performance you expect or need.