Benefits of adding storage?

[chuck172]

Those who have operated a gassifier boiler without storage, then added it, have you seen a substantial savings in firewood?
Granted storage adds to the convenience, but do you burn less wood with it?

 

[cheapsx]

How about for guy's running non gassers? Since the fire is more efficient burning hot instead of smoldering.

 

[Piker]

Those who have operated a gassifier boiler without storage, then added it, have you seen a substantial savings in firewood?
Granted storage adds to the convenience, but do you burn less wood with it?

I have done both... with all the variables involved it's difficult to say just how much fuel we actually saved by adding storage. I do think savings are there for most people providing they have a good setup.... Whether or not they are substantial or not is another question, and I guess partly depends on your definition of "substantial." Keep in mind your savings can go negative if you experience too much standby or transmission loss to the tanks. On our previous forced draft gasifier system, adding thermal storage made a noticeable difference in efficiency during the shoulder seasons especially, and of course not so much when it was bitter cold out. Not that you burn that much wood anyways on a 45° day, but firing the boiler once every 2 or 3 days as opposed to smoldering for days on end definitely makes a difference. I've never actually done any measurements on this, so my thoughts are purely anecdotal. I won't be taking any measurements on this either, as the Froling boiler is required by Tarm Biomass to be used with thermal storage... and for good reason since it uses draft induction.

cheers

 

[ihookem]

I don't have storage but in shoulder seasons I just run the whole burn cycle through and if it heats the house from 65 to 75 oh well. I just put the heat in the house instead of storage tanks. I would like storage but I don't want it outside, I want it inside so the heat loss at least goes in the house. I can't get tanks in my basement but if I could it would cost over a thousand bucks anyway. I can get 10 cords of oak delivered for that. I just don't see a whole lot of savings. I think everyone is better off spending that on insulation to cut the btu demand 10%. Just my thoughts.

 

[Piker]

I don't have storage but in shoulder seasons I just run the whole burn cycle through and if it heats the house from 65 to 75 oh well. I just put the heat in the house instead of storage tanks. I would like storage but I don't want it outside, I want it inside so the heat loss at least goes in the house. I can't get tanks in my basement but if I could it would cost over a thousand bucks anyway. I can get 10 cords of oak delivered for that. I just don't see a whole lot of savings. I think everyone is better off spending that on insulation to cut the btu demand 10%. Just my thoughts.

$100 per cord for delivered oak is a very good price!

Indeed, insulation is often overlooked when making decisions on how to lower fuel bills. I doubt that thermal storage adds more than 10% efficiency to a wood gasification system, so if your concerns are strictly dollars and cents, then yes, insulation that decreases your heat load by 10% or more is a winner. Insulation can't give you 24 or 48 hour burn cycles though, nor can it make DHW in the summer... so if your concerns are making the wood burning life as easy and efficient as possible over the long haul, then storage makes a lot of sense.

cheers

 

[Como]

To meet higher emissions standards storage has to be part of the install. No matter how efficient the Boiler.

Not so relevant in the US.

 

[Nofossil]

I've run with and without storage. In my case, storage did not reduce wood consumption at all.

However, it made a HUGE improvement in comfort and convenience. Well worth the price of admission.

Here's the problem with comparing one person's experience to another: There's a wide variation in technique. I belong to the 'short hot fire' denomination. With or without storage, I build a fire when I need to, and run it flat out until it's done. Without storage, that means either (A) Lots of small fires, or (B) wide temperature fluctuations in the house. Without storage, we ended up with a bit of both. Storage lets me build a fire when it's convenient for me, and the house temperature is much more stable.

For those who don't like building fires, there's the '24/7' approach where there's always a fire or at least a good bed of coals. This is less efficient (sometimes WAY less efficient). If you're burning this way without storage, then storage might reduce the number of fires that you'd need to build and allow you to burn more efficiently.

 

[ManiacPD]

As an operator of a non-gasifier with experience with and without storage life is much better with it.

Without storage it was a constant battle of trying burn a long, hot fire but not too hot to prevent overtemp zone usage and having an 85 degree house in February. Then, when the fire dies at 2am, getting up at 3-4am to start another one. No fun.

With storage I can sleep a full night and still have plenty of heat. It still will cool off and run out of heat but not nearly as quick as before.

I burn just as much wood as before but, instead of idling back the fire, I keep burning fairly hot and store the heat.

 

[eriesigtau]

I just got my storage working. I noticed that I burnt slightly more wood but I no longer need to worry about the fire burning out or the fire being too small. It keeps my house a nice constant temp now. I can load the boiler at 9PM and the fire will be out in the morning but I do not need to reload till mid morning. During the day, I usually keep the fire going simply because I dont want to restart plus it recharges the storage. My tank is currently uninsulated so that might be why I burn slightly more wood.

 

[jebatty]

If efficiency is the only consideration, then the key factor is the ability of the heating system to supply as often as needed hot water at the temperature the system requires to provide the desired heat comfort. I think the ideal wood boiler in this situation would be one with a rating about 125% of the majority heat load (125% because wood burns vary in btu output over a burn, assumed 80% average btu output over a burn), and then to fire it more or less continuously. The more variable the heat load, the more difficult to get a wood boiler into this parameter. N MN, for example, may have -40F to +50F outside temps which result in a highly variable heat load.

Storage evens out the efficiency with variable heat loads and may add lots of convenience and more even heat at all other times.

I also am coming to the conclusion that storage adds another element of efficiency in reduced wood usage, at least in applications where heat is provided primarily from storage (similar to mine), and I soon will be submitting a post with that data and discussion.

 

[woodsmaster]

It's 6 deg F here and I haven't had a fire for 36 houres. That's what storage does for me. Ok time to build a fire I better get off here.

 

[goosegunner]

It's 6 deg F here and I haven't had a fire for 36 houres. That's what storage does for me. Ok time to build a fire I better get off here.

Can you tell us what type of heat you have in your shop and house?

gg

 

[woodsmaster]

I have radiant heat in the shop floor. The shop is a 42 x 34 with 15' walls. aprox. R 55 in attik and r 19 walls , 2" insulation under slab and 1" around perimiter. Just finished insulating shop walls last night. Should be able to go two days between fires now, three if I let my storage get really low. The house is not hooked in yet. It will have rad panels. I'm currently heating house with an old wood stove. Fire is allways going in stove.