Bio Bricks vs Kiln Dried vs Craigslist "Seasoned"?

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jhollist

New Member
Oct 2, 2011
9
Rhode Island
All,

New to the forum and to wood burning.

We are getting a new Heatilator Constitution installed the end of this month. As this is our first year I am way short on good wood and am trying to weigh my options.

I have looked at the bio bricks (about 300.00/ pallet delivered), kiln dried (375/cord delivered), or finding something "seasoned" on craigslist (~250/cord delivered).

I have about a 3/4 cord of River Birch and Oak that was cut about a year ago, but most of it was not split until recently. Also an additional 1/2 cord (maybe more) or so of standing dead wood that I have access to. I am getting a Moisture meter soon to see if the standing dead oak will be at all useable.

Anyway, just looking for some insight from the forums collective wisdom on the best way to get through my first winter. Specifically, of the three options how and what would you use to get through the season?

Worse comes to worse, I can always use the furnance, but I am hopeful to eat into our gas bill as much as possible.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
Well... How about one pallet of bricks, one cord of kiln-dried, one cord of CL "seasoned" (which MAY be somewhat useable by spring) and gas on a low setting as needed.

And, as budget permits, buy what you're going to need for next winter -- now.

The stuff you have on hand now probably won't be ready until next year. Only the moisture meter knows...

It's a bummer not having a full supply of seasoned wood.

And, by the way, welcome to the clambake.

Nancy
 
I'd get a pallet of bio bricks or a cord of kiln dried to mix with the other wood you have or can get. The oak will probably not be ready to burn this year if it was just split--wood doesn't dry much until it's split and oak takes the longest. The birch may be ready to burn this year. The standing dead will vary depending on the type of tree and how long it's been dead, but my experience has been (with standing dead oak) the top third and limbs are usually ready to burn right away or soon, the middle third will dry out in a few months, and the bottom third has to be split and stacked for next year. I'd check your birch and oak with the meter and sort it by dryness. You may end up with three piles--standing dead tops and limbs to burn soon (mixed with bio bricks or kiln dried), middle third of standing dead trunk and birch to burn later this season, and bottom of standing dead trunk and oak to burn next year.
 
jeff,

Congrats on your new stove. I just looked it up and it looks nice, very similar to my Kozyheat z42.

I would caution on using the Kiln dry. Something about it - it burns very hot and I'd be concerned not to over fire the unit.

I have not used the bio bricks - but I doubt they are as HOT as kiln dry runs.

I would keep looking around for some SEASONED wood for sale. Look for some ASH. Someguys also cut up and burn pallets, but this too should be considered like kiln dry wood and be mixed so as not to over fire the unit.

Enjoy your new stove - post some pics of the install!
 
I've heard that the moisture of kiln dried can vary. Not all kiln dried is heated to the point of low moisture content. Some is just heated to the point of having the bugs killed off.

With that said, I think if it were me I'd be buying the craigslist wood and getting it stacked and ready for next winter to keep a year ahead. Then I think I'd be buying a mix of the biobricks and kiln dried (if it really is dry) or straight bio bricks if you are not sure.

Wet wood isn't saving you anything when you consider how much energy is wasted simply getting the water to boil off.

The chart seen below comes from this site http://www.abbottenergysystems.com/project-help/energy-cost-comparators.html

pen
 

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Again, the chart showing how much heat is lost from burning wet wood. Again, the chart is based on the weight of the wood rather than the volume.

There is nowhere near that amount of latent heat lost through evaporation of water, and that is a scientific fact. We cut, buy, stack, and load our stoves by volume, not weight. It makes as much sense to me to buy a ton of wet wood and then complain six months later that you lost half of your fuel through evaporation due to seasoning.
 
I certainly agree BK, the chart may not be perfect as it overemphasizes the amount of heat loss that you have w/ damp wood. However, the "jist" is still valid.

Have you come across a volumetric comparison of btu's based on moisture content? I haven't seen one I like. There is no way around the fact that wood which is green will not provide as much useable BTU's as appropriately seasoned wood (not to mention the other problems with burning it) which is why the OP made a thread here in the first place.

Since you posted in his thread, what's your opinion on his situation? I gave mine.

pen
 
My opinion is that the OP should use a mix of what is available. Craigslist ads might lead to usable fuel for this year. My experience is that white ash can be burned with decent results soon after it is cut, and black cherry will be passable after about a month outside if it is purchased immediately and stacked loosely. Asking for these two woods has gotten me usable fuel rather than being stuck with red oak that is supposedly kiln-dried but is still higher in moisture than ash off the stump.

Brick fuel is a great way to go, especially if you mix it in with the other stuff. I have tried it and like it enough, but do not believe the hype about a ton being equal to a cord of good, dry hardwood. If it was $150/ton I think it might be the answer for a lot of folks in this situation, but at $300 I feel fresh-cut ash is a much better deal and will give you a lot more heat for the dollar and will burn clean in a nice, hot fire.
 
Have you burned fresh-cut ash in an epa unit?

I tried w/ some that was cut to length for a 8 months and sat split and stacked for 3 just for the fun of it last winter. In the end, it wasn't fun.

pen
 
Last season I really short changed myself with firewood. Added a second stove, took down 6 huge pine trees, bought wood, and figured I was good to go.

Had an "OS" moment about mid January. Scrambled for wood ( the oil burner is/was down) so no back up. Craig's list $100 a cord (sopping wet), you pick up, mixed with Bio Bricks got it done. Added more wood that was mostly seasoned ( the lawn dude who was selling wood on the side apologized because the wood was "old", and I was dancing in the rain !)

Moral of this story is buy/process it as fast as you can to get ahead. I lucked into guy selling full cords for $ 100 ( thanks, D !!). It's sopping wet, except for the first 3, and I'm running with it. Bought 7, might get more. Bought another 3 from the guy with seasoned wood to insure lot's of heat.

IMHO, it's worth the shot of Bio Bricks to get 'er dun.
 
All of the science in the world BK just can't seem to overcome what really happens based on moisture content of the wood in an EPA stove. And having a glass in the door to see what happens. In my lab that I lovingly call the family room the results of a few hundred cords of wood burning all suggest that 20 percent wood is great. 15-18 percent is nirvana.

And too low a moisture content making more creosote is a crock of crap. And you can tell the good Doctor I said so. While his heat pump is heating his house. At university expense.
 
All,

Thanks for the replies!

My plan at this point is the buy about a cord of "seasoned" wood from one of the local tree companies. They have been around for 30+ years and I have had them do work for me in the past so I have level of trust in them. At a minimum, I'll have someone to complain to if the wood they bring isn't adequate! I did contact Heatilator about the Biobricks and I got the feeling they didn't have any idea what I was talking about. They gave a standard, "burn seasoned wood" response. I think I am going to buy a few bags locally at first and see how I like them and if they work well, I'll mix with the seasoned wood I've purchased.

I have also been able to cut about 4-5 standing dead oaks. I just got my moisture meter and fresh splits are reading about 18%, with a few in the 20-22% range !! My birch won't be ready for a while. Fresh splits on those are in the low 30%.

Anyway, since I am late to the game this year I think I will just try and learn the fireplace and start to build up a supply that is a couple years ahead.

Thanks again!
Jeff
 
I'd take your moisture meter and check the moisture content of the kiln dried stuff.

If it is below 20% BUY.

Good luck with your landscape pals.

Not about trust, it is about knowledge.

Most firewood dealers are not lying, they are just wrong.
 
Dune said:
Not about trust, it is about knowledge.

Most firewood dealers are not lying, they are just wrong.

I tend to agree with that sentiment. Most of these guys work real hard for small recompense. No college degree required to work in the field - just a truck, a saw, a splitter, and a woodlot to harvest. You can't expect them to be experts in woodburning technology. It's up to you to educate yourself first and your firewood dealer after that.

JH, I think your plan will get you through fine for the first year. The only thing I'd recommend is to avoid the trap of using all your best stuff up first while the lesser stuff seasons further. It won't... not to completion at any rate. Mix the lesser stuff in here and there once you get a good hot fire going, rather than being stuck with a couple cord of straight unseasoned wood in the middle of February.
 
Dune, that is quote-worthy in someone's signature and goes well with what I've seen.
 
BrotherBart said:
All of the science in the world BK just can't seem to overcome what really happens based on moisture content of the wood in an EPA stove. And having a glass in the door to see what happens. In my lab that I lovingly call the family room the results of a few hundred cords of wood burning all suggest that 20 percent wood is great. 15-18 percent is nirvana.

And too low a moisture content making more creosote is a crock of crap. And you can tell the good Doctor I said so. While his heat pump is heating his house. At university expense.

May I second that- twice? I'm sure BK is sincere in what he posted earlier on that, BUT it seems to me that it's dependent on the stove.

I find it to be not so with my little iron Dane. Once it's up to anywhere near "normal" temps, I need to crack the door to see particulates in the exhaust with really (e.g. <10% MC) dry wood. Close the door- gone. One counter-example disproves "always."

Of course, you DO pay some attention to stacking in the stove, not being a total idiot. Really open for starting, more compact for sustained burn.

I forgot to mention to the OP:
1. Wood can be dried out a LOT by stacking it near the stove for a week or two- saves cooking it up the flue. Turns [marginal] -> [ready].
2. Pallets make excellent fuel; trick is developing method of safe disassembly, and later picking metal out of the ashes. No biggie.
 
All,

Got a cord delivered today from the local tree guys that I mentioned.

Pouring rain all day. Got home from work, split a couple of big pieces, one read 19% the other about 21-22%. I am not unhappy. The 19% piece was oak, I believe. I am not so good on the ID of split wood.

I think I should be able to get by this winter, and worst comes to worst, I will have plugged up the big gaping hole that was my old fireplace and should be able to get more bang for my buck just heating with the furnace!

Thanks again all,
Jeff
 
Glad to hear it.

pen
 
Dune said:
Most firewood dealers are not lying, they are just wrong.

I disagree. I hate to be a pesemist, but most folks burning wood these days have already purchased an EPA stove within the last 20 yrs. If you sell wood, somebody you 'burned' is going to tell you they are unhappy, and, I dont care how far off the beaten path you live, the wood-seller also has access to the information super-highway, and they can find out in an instant that "seasoned" wood is less than 20% MC.
If when they sold their first cord, they didnt know....OK. But after that, they know EXACTLY how "seasoned" their wood ISNT!
 
wood-fan-atic said:
I disagree. I hate to be a pesemist, but most folks burning wood these days have already purchased an EPA stove within the last 20 yrs.

From the EPA

Approximately 10 million wood stoves are currently in use in the United States, and 70 to 80 percent of them are older, inefficient, conventional stoves that pollute

http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/how-to-guide.html

pen
 
wood-fan-atic said:
Dune said:
Most firewood dealers are not lying, they are just wrong.

I disagree. I hate to be a pesemist, but most folks burning wood these days have already purchased an EPA stove within the last 20 yrs. If you sell wood, somebody you 'burned' is going to tell you they are unhappy, and, I dont care how far off the beaten path you live, the wood-seller also has access to the information super-highway, and they can find out in an instant that "seasoned" wood is less than 20% MC.
If when they sold their first cord, they didnt know....OK. But after that, they know EXACTLY how "seasoned" their wood ISNT!

I disagree. The vast majority of folks are honest.
 
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