BK Ashford smoke smell issue low draft theory

[alforit]

I just don't understand how sealing that small area around the pipe solved a smoke smell from around the door.

Same situation tonight as last night, but mine definitely isn't coming from the back of the stove. Gotta be glass or door gasket leaking

I just don't understand how sealing that small area around the pipe solved a smoke smell from around the door.

Same situation tonight as last night, but mine definitely isn't coming from the back of the stove. Gotta be glass or door gasket leaking

That's exactly what I thought....it's got to be the door gasket or glass. I had no smell coming from behind the stove or around the collar.

But like I said this happened by accident. I had not intended to fix the smoke leak because I had tried and given up on it. I just wanted to improve my draft and burn times and wood combustion...that's why I sealed my stove pipe.

 

[drz1050]

Sealing the stove pipe should improve the draft... if you have really good draft pulling all the smoke out, there will be less in the box to leak around the door/ glass.

 

[Woody Stover]

I just don't understand how sealing that small area around the pipe solved a smoke smell from around the door.

Sealing the stove pipe should improve the draft... if you have really good draft pulling all the smoke out, there will be less in the box to leak around the door/ glass.

Agreed, sealing gave slightly better draft, enough to overcome the smoke leak. I'd still try to find the root cause, though; If it gets worse, it's possible the pipe sealing won't be enough to overcome it.

 

[Calentarse]

Agreed, sealing gave slightly better draft, enough to overcome the smoke leak. I'd still try to find the root cause, though; If it gets worse, it's possible the pipe sealing won't be enough to overcome it.

I agree. This guy had everything he needed, apparantly, and sealing small cracks in the pipe improved the draft enough to overcome smoke escape?! I guess weirder things have happened but it just doesn't seem probable just hearing about it...I want to see what BK says about this gasket. Everyone attests to the power of good draft and I understand those principles. On the other hand, why is the stove not sealed? My expectation is that smoke shouldn't be able to escape from a brand new stove stove, at least not easily. With a fire roaring and draft in place, how is it still getting out?! Something else has got to be faulty.

I'm calling my chimney guy today and hopefully he can stop out and smell this stove. Hopefully he'll test my draft and we'll go from there. My dealer doesn't even know about this cause he's 1 hour away and had never dealt with BK prior to my purchase, probably never will again. He's a VC pusher.

 

[Highbeam]

I agree. This guy had everything he needed, apparantly, and sealing small cracks in the pipe improved the draft enough to overcome smoke escape?! I guess weirder things have happened but it just doesn't seem probable just hearing about it...I want to see what BK says about this gasket. Everyone attests to the power of good draft and I understand those principles. On the other hand, why is the stove not sealed? My expectation is that smoke shouldn't be able to escape from a brand new stove stove, at least not easily. With a fire roaring and draft in place, how is it still getting out?! Something else has got to be faulty.

I'm calling my chimney guy today and hopefully he can stop out and smell this stove. Hopefully he'll test my draft and we'll go from there. My dealer doesn't even know about this cause he's 1 hour away and had never dealt with BK prior to my purchase, probably never will again. He's a VC pusher.

Do you think that the draft measured and available in the flue is the same as what's in the firebox? Especially during low burns with the cat engaged? I'm not so sure. Smoke seems to easily roll out of the door, especially with the cat engaged.

 

[Tenn Dave]

I have no way of knowing how wide spread this smoke smell issue is with BKs and in particular the Ashford when burning low & slow, but if there is a problem, owners need to speak up so BK becomes award of the issue and can do some investigation and design changes to correct it. That certainly was the case with the early model Woodstock Progress Hybrids. Owners spoke up, Woodstock took notice, investigated the problem, found the cause, issued repair kits, and changed the design of the stove to prevent problems on all new production. Constructive feedback is essential for future improvements.

 

[Charles1981]

One thing to note is that the the original stove the OP had was a VC Encore 2n1. It had cracked and was over-firing. Maybe it came cracked though?

Now we have a brand new stove from what most would consider the best brand around, however there are reports with ashford and chinook models in some situations leaking smoke back into the house.

2 different stoves, 2 different brands, very different methods of burning and yet continued problems.

My gut instinct says there are factors at play other then the stove. And that first thought especially with smoke spilling into room on reloading, the blackened glass, and the amount of creosote you got is draft.

I really think the chimney is a major issue here (combination of height, and 45 degree angles ect, now BK wants double layer piping as well). The unfortunate part as you know is that is a pretty expensive investment for a hunch or a maybe. But feel it is probably the next best step in trying to figure things out. You shouldn't have to seal things that no-one else has to seal for a stove to work appropriately imo. If that is the fix then it is just masking some other issue.
if you can bring the stove forward with the hearth pad I know it will jut into the room more and you will lose space but having a straight shot up is probably the best situation with the correct chimney.

 

[jeff_t]

I smelled smoke yesterday as the stove was getting back up to temp, and when I went to look I realized I didn't clean off the ash lip.

 

[Calentarse]

I smelled smoke yesterday as the stove was getting back up to temp, and when I went to look I realized I didn't clean off the ash lip.

This is interesting...normally don't clean mine off. Cleaned it off as I emptied ash tray pan today. Still have the odor...

 

[Calentarse]

Do you think that the draft measured and available in the flue is the same as what's in the firebox? Especially during low burns with the cat engaged? I'm not so sure. Smoke seems to easily roll out of the door, especially with the cat engaged.

Now you're questioning engineering. I would hope BK would design a stove such that flue draft even on lowest setting (while cat still remains active of course) would overcome the pressure it takes to escape the firebox through a gasket. Clearly, on some installs, they have. On others, they haven't. I just hate seeing evidence of smoke smells even with required equipment installed (not talking about me as I've yet to try double wall), BK notified, and to my knowledge, no solution provided.

 

[BKVP]

There are two stoves that we have not been able to nail down the cause of the smoke problem. Parallax and Calentarse. There are NO OTHERS in North America that we are aware of. There were two or three others that were able to fixed by improving the draft and smoked mostly when idling in ultra low burn mode. Those leaks were around the venting area.

I personally have spoke with Parallax and his dealer in the past 24 hours. We are looking into these two issues.

We have sold many, many, many, many Ashfords, all installed and no concerns. So it's no design issue or production issue. I assure you we will get these last two resolved one way or another.

Chris

 

[Calentarse]

One thing to note is that the the original stove the OP had was a VC Encore 2n1. It had cracked and was over-firing. Maybe it came cracked though?

Now we have a brand new stove from what most would consider the best brand around, however there are reports with ashford and chinook models in some situations leaking smoke back into the house.

2 different stoves, 2 different brands, very different methods of burning and yet continued problems.

My gut instinct says there are factors at play other then the stove. And that first thought especially with smoke spilling into room on reloading, the blackened glass, and the amount of creosote you got is draft.

I really think the chimney is a major issue here (combination of height, and 45 degree angles ect, now BK wants double layer piping as well). The unfortunate part as you know is that is a pretty expensive investment for a hunch or a maybe. But feel it is probably the next best step in trying to figure things out. You shouldn't have to seal things that no-one else has to seal for a stove to work appropriately imo. If that is the fix then it is just masking some other issue.
if you can bring the stove forward with the hearth pad I know it will jut into the room more and you will lose space but having a straight shot up is probably the best situation with the correct chimney.

You reference my other stove, the VC Encore. I always had way TOO MUCH draft with it. Then I went to the BK and I now don't have enough. I do have trees along one side of my house and perhaps with single wall and 2 45s + a sensitive nose, it just isn't enough draft. yet, even last night. My wife said she smelled smoke in the house, and her nose almost never picks up smells. Ill be following BKs advice to install double wall, have an appointment with my chimney guy next Friday. Will definitely repost with any updates and thank you all for your opinions and insight in helping me make this work. I absolutely love the stove when I can't smell it and could live with nothing else now!

 

[rdust]

Ill be following BKs advice to install double wall, have an appointment with my chimney guy next Friday.

Why wait, order the pieces online and install them! I can't imagine owning a stove and not being able to service every part of it myself.

If I was experiencing anything I thought could be draft related I'd have a manometer ordered up and check everything out. I've seen articles on how to build your own and it looks pretty straight forward. One hole in the pipe and you remove all the questions as to what the draft is doing.

 

[Charles1981]

My thought is that your previous excessive draft could have been due to the crack and really an air leak rather than overdraft.

 

[Calentarse]

My thought is that your previous excessive draft could have been due to the crack and really an air leak rather than overdraft.

This definitely could have been the case

 

[Calentarse]

Why wait, order the pieces online and install them! I can't imagine owning a stove and not being able to service every part of it myself.

If I was experiencing anything I thought could be draft related I'd have a manometer ordered up and check everything out. I've seen articles on how to build your own and it looks pretty straight forward. One hole in the pipe and you remove all the questions as to what the draft is doing.

Would you be able to find the brand and pipe I'd need to go with in order to make it work? I don't know how to cut it, adapters at stove and ceiling, etc?

Screwing it together and making it fit just like single wall I could handle. Still gonna have my guy out to talk options with me, let him see/smell the BK and then give me his informed opinion...if I'm doing double wall at any rate, May as well go ahead and at the very least try to get it in place. Would Lowe's be just as good as anything?

 

[Calentarse]

There are two stoves that we have not been able to nail down the cause of the smoke problem. Parallax and Calentarse. There are NO OTHERS in North America that we are aware of. There were two or three others that were able to fixed by improving the draft and smoked mostly when idling in ultra low burn mode. Those leaks were around the venting area.

I personally have spoke with Parallax and his dealer in the past 24 hours. We are looking into these two issues.

We have sold many, many, many, many Ashfords, all installed and no concerns. So it's no design issue or production issue. I assure you we will get these last two resolved one way or another.

Chris

I can sniff on both sides of the stove and feel heat pouring out of the convective top gap. Completely odorless. As soon as I round the corner to the front, smoke. Smoke all across the front. Nothing visible to the eye with lights off and flashlight on, but definitely smoke.

The front is bolted on tight and the door gasket seals very tight. I would rip a dollar bill with a test tje gasket seals so tightly and it still smells. Fingers crossed double wall and maybe adding another 3 foot of chimney fixes it. Trying to do anything and everything I can without bothering BK about this...

 

[Poindexter]

Couple clean up items.

My telescoping double wall stove pipe is ICC Ultra Black. I should mention mine has been installed at three heights now, 1) my old stove, 2) Ashford 30 with SW/DW SP adapter, and 3) Ashford 30 without SW/DW SP adapter. The screws at the stove collar pierce both layers of the telescoping ultrablack at the stove collar end nine times total, I got screws in three of the through holes holding the thing together, the six other through holes are more or less blocked by the stove collar itself, I was careful to push the pipe down as far as I could before I put any more holes in it. As the weather warms if I am getting smoke smell again at low settings I will just replace the telescoping piece, and likely use screws too short to pierce the inner layer of DWSP when I do it.

My door gasket looks very much like all the others pictured. The gasket rope is somehow stitched together with the stitching or whatever area located over by the hinges. Mine is making a good seal with the knife edge of the door opening all the way around, but it is maybe 1/8" off center. If I could lower the whole door about 1/8" and move the window over closer to the hinges about 1/8" the impression of the knife edge wold be pretty well centered all the way around --- but there is no sign of smoke or fire leaking out of the stove around the door gasket, and no sign of air leaking in. Mine is most heavily discolored inside the stove at the bottom, with a pretty even fade in the stain going vertical up each side.

I don't feel I need to brush my flue every cord to maintain draft. I brush my flue every cord because one of the kids found a way to ignite two cords worth of accumulation (About 1 tablespoon of creosote) by operating the stove incorrectly. I am just trying to minimize available fuel in the tube for next time the chimney get overfired.

 

[rdust]

Would you be able to find the brand and pipe I'd need to go with in order to make it work? I don't know how to cut it, adapters at stove and ceiling, etc?

You don't cut double wall pipe, they sell adjustable pieces so you don't have to cut anything. The stove may or may not need an appliance adapter depending on the pipe you use, I'd buy it to have it on hand incase your stove needs it. Making a post asking what other Ashford owners are using and if they have an appliance adapter or not should get you the info you need. Check out the Duravent, Selkirk or ICC UltraBlack chimney pipe. A lot of helpful information on their sites that should be enough to get you going. The connection to the chimney may vary a little but I'm sure you can figure it out.

 

[DougA]

The screws at the stove collar pierce both layers of the telescoping ultrablack at the stove collar end nine times total

I'm confused. I used ICC Ultra Black telescoping and the adjustment is in the middle section, not the end. I'm wondering if the telescoping section was put together incorrectly. I spent half an hour trying to figure out how it went together before I got it right. If the sections are assembled wrong, I'd think you might have a problem with leakage.
The screws that come with the telescoping pieces will not penetrate through both layers of metal.

 

[Poindexter]

I'm confused. I used ICC Ultra Black telescoping and the adjustment is in the middle section, not the end. I'm wondering if the telescoping section was put together incorrectly. I spent half an hour trying to figure out how it went together before I got it right. If the sections are assembled wrong, I'd think you might have a problem with leakage.
The screws that come with the telescoping pieces will not penetrate through both layers of metal.

I dunno. I asked my local dealer for the best telescoping piece between my stove collar and ceiling fitting that money could buy. He handed ICC ultrablack, and nine screws. I used the short three in the middle to set the length of the telescope. I used three of the long ones to connect the DWSP to the radiation shield in the ceiling, and the other three long ones to connect the bottom of the telescope to my stove collar. There was a drawing in the box of how to fit the two telescoping pieces together. Half an hour sounds about right, it took way longer than I expected to get the two pieces assembled, even using the drawing.

 

[Calentarse]

Here's my current pipe brand: it says ___ metal USA 6 24-GA Anyone know which DW brand would be the best option?

 

[Calentarse]

You don't cut double wall pipe, they sell adjustable pieces so you don't have to cut anything. The stove may or may not need an appliance adapter depending on the pipe you use, I'd buy it to have it on hand incase your stove needs it. Making a post asking what other Ashford owners are using and if they have an appliance adapter or not should get you the info you need. Check out the Duravent, Selkirk or ICC UltraBlack chimney pipe. A lot of helpful information on their sites that should be enough to get you going. The connection to the chimney may vary a little but I'm sure you can figure it out.

So I went up in the attic and the chimney has SuperVent wriiten on it which I see is the model of DSP made by Selkirk. So I should be able to order Selkirk DSP and just connect. Anyone know if an adapter is needed to fit to stove?

 

[Poindexter]

So I went up in the attic and the chimney has SuperVent wriiten on it which I see is the model of DSP made by Selkirk. So I should be able to order Selkirk DSP and just connect. Anyone know if an adapter is needed to fit to stove?

I would try it without an adapter. I am pretty sure the adapter was where my faint intermittent smell was coming from. You should be able to fit the DWSP over the stove collar so the inner layer of pipe is inside the stove collar, the outer layer outside the stove collar.

On mine I have room to fit the enamel top back on using hex head sheet metal screws, about 0.020" minimum clearance.

If I end up replacing my telescoping DWSP I will get the 1/4" long pan head screws to increase the clearance between the enamel and screw head. I don't know the diameter of the screws, probably something like #10 or #12, pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Calentarse]

Honestly haven't seen any 12 x 36 telescoping pipe in the few places I've looked online. My first stretch of pipe from stove to 45 degree angle is 34". Everything else I can order and screw together imo save for adapters to stove and at ceiling...