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  1. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Si I am thrilled overall after ! month and into my 12th bag...but now my wife is pissed (rightfully so!) because when she wipes a cloth on pieces of furniture in the room, we are seeing a lot of fine black dust...?????? First I thought, well I was running a very rich fuel air mixture which resulted in my thich black sooty window...but that didn't explain where the black particles were coming from....? I can only assume that it is paint dust from the exhaust tube? Concerned! I also assume whether you have a wood stove or a pellet stove, there is bound to be a small ammount of particles being blown out...? So what is the story? Thanks, Bill

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  2. silverfox103

    silverfox103 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Littleton, NH
    Have you used a vacuum?

    Tom C.
  3. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Hi! I assume you mean to clean the stove!???? I basically do the Enviro M55 monthly cleaning, once a week! So yes I vacuum the entire insides...everywhere I can per the Enviro M55 (youtube) videos which aren great! Bill
  4. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    W Michigan
    Well, there you go! Vacuum is the #1 culprit for spreading very fine black dust all over your house. Make sure you use a vacuum/bags suitable for VERY fine dust.

    Ash vac's are good, but $$$. I use a Shop Vac (cold stove) with a large cartridge hepa filter AND a fine dust bag. That way 99.9 percent of the dust stays in the cleaner.
  5. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Holy black dust bunnies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a small (cricket) I think ash vac with a paper bag! So your saying its picking up the bigger dust particles...but all the finer crap is shooting out the exhaust? Geeeeeez..never thought of that!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOOOOOOO. I need somthing with a Hepa filter right. Wow, So I thought I was doing the right thing only I screwed up! There should be a certification test before us rookies are allowed to burn pellets. Appreciate any equipment choices and thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, Bill
  6. flynfrfun

    flynfrfun Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    703
    Loc:
    Bonney Lake, WA
  7. silverfox103

    silverfox103 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    Littleton, NH
  8. GrahamInVa

    GrahamInVa Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    513
    Loc:
    Eastern, Virginia
    I HAD been using a shop vac with a bag designed for small partials. It ended up making a mess. It is hard to tell the small amount that is coming out the exhaust. I now have a HEPA filter in there and it works WONDERFUL. No more dust out the vacuum exhaust.
  9. mlarson

    mlarson New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Central PA
    You guys may want to try a set up like this. I believe I may do this in the spring. To late in the year here in central PA to be cutting holes in the wall. Looks like an amazing idea.
  10. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,070
    Loc:
    Eaton Township, Ohio
    Yeah...That is awesome!!! ;-)
  11. kykel

    kykel Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    412
    Loc:
    long Island
    As long as there is no leak in the exhaust, there should be no dust coming from the stove. the air that blows through the convection tubes comes from the outside air.
    I tried to convince my wife of this. she dusted and had black also. I tried dusting in the middle of the summer with a damp cloth and it looked black also. The only dirt from stove would be when opening door to clean. You do need a good filter to trap the fine particles. Just my opinion.
  12. stoveguy13

    stoveguy13 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    985
    Loc:
    CT
    i have seen one insert not seat back after install there is a gasket between the unit body and the flue colar may want to check that out that would send ash all over the place
  13. Murphy118

    Murphy118 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    148
    Loc:
    NE Pennsylvania
    I'm gonna study really, really hard,,,,,,,,

    John
  14. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    13,466
    Loc:
    Northwestern CT.
    Pretty sure the cricket vac he has is up to the task. The bags are for fine dust particles.

    Me also thinx there is a leak in the venting somewhere. I'd check what stoveguy13 suggests or the cap on the tee.
  15. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Thanks J-Takeman...I get the black dust in small amounts all over our living room but primarily in two areas. # 1 directly in front of the stove on the granite hearth that the stove partially sits on. This is after the stove has run a few hours but the stove door has not been opened. Another place is directly above the stove on top of the wooden mantle. I wiped it clean 2 weeks ago but have vacuumed it twice since them. Just now, I vacuumed the granite in front of the stove again and Got a bit of ash. So I am perplexed. Anything I could do or check? I don' understand how a leak behind the surround would get out front...but you guys would know...thanks, Bill
  16. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,110
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    For a path out you merely look at where the convection fan is getting its air from.
  17. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Thanks Fire God! So my newbie response is....the incoming air (as far as I can figure) come into the stove from 4 areas. The 2 side stove grid openings, all along the bottom front and bottom sides of the stove and possibly all along the surround edges. So If all the incoming air gets sucked in through these areas, where could the dust be comming from. I wonder if it was from my Cricket ash vac??? All 4 times I used it, I ran it a good 7-8 minutes plus. bill
  18. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    13,466
    Loc:
    Northwestern CT.
    Hey SmokeyTheBear is a fire god now! Cool!!! congrats Smokey! :coolsmile:
  19. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,110
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Post a picture of the guts of that unit and tell us again what it is sitting inside of..

    Jay be good now.
  20. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Fire God, the stove is just a standard fireplace install, in our fireplace with the standard M55 Surrond. One 90 degree turn and 25' ft or so straight up the chimney. I wii post a picture of the stove in the next few days....but what "guts" are you talking about? I, myself can't pull the stove out........? Bill
  21. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,110
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Bill, the handle is Smokey.

    That is sitting inside of a former fireplace and it has a convection fan that sucks its air in through various holes but it comes from the house and perhaps from the fireplace as well. In any event what it sucks in it also pushes right back out heated and a bit higher than it sucked it in.

    This air will have whatever is in the air outside of the stove, dust, soot particles from wherever, and other debris.

    Some of the dust and other debris will over time and many passes through the stove and coming in contact with really hot spots on the heat exchanger, start to char, that is turn black.

    The air may also have soot from leaks in the exhaust system or from smokey startups which sometimes dump smoke out of air intakes, igniter wire ports, and if the combustion fan isn't really running too hard out around the hole in the motor mounting plate. This is usually detectable as a faint wood smoke smell.

    In addition if your vacuum doesn't have a HEPA or dry wall filter your vacuuming of the stove can leave suspended soot in the air to be sucked through the stove's convection system. In fact if you aren't careful when opening up the stove and doing various cleaning actions you can cause soot particles to become suspended in the air around the stove that will be sucked into the convection system and blown back out.

    This is without considering any residual mess inside the former fireplace that the insert is sitting in.
  22. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    Thanks Fire God! So basically, a fireplace isn't the best place to put an insert. It would seem that any free standing stove vented to the outside would have a huge advantage in its ability to draw in cleaner air. Is this a fairly accurate assessment so far.....? Bill
  23. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,110
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Actually a free standing stove has only one advantage in the black soot business it isn't installed inside a place that likely already has a layer of soot to stir up, other than that, the convection systems are going to do the same thing in each stove.

    This is what happens in hot air systems in general if there aren't any air filters.
  24. bostonfan49

    bostonfan49 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Loc:
    Essex Jct. Vermont
    ........so assuming there is not any realistic way to filter the incoming air in a fireplace insert, then any stove vented to the outside ( in a basically clean area) would have the advantage of drawing in fresher,cleaner air. Correct...yes? Bill
  25. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,110
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Fresh air from outside the fireplace is usually better than what is inside the fireplace unless the fireplace was cleaned very well.

    You have to determine exactly what the sources for the crud are and eliminate as much as possible.

    If it is dust etc.. in the house then an air cleaner may go a long ways to cutting it down.

    If it is you cleaning the stove then having a means of keeping the crud from entering the room the stove is in will cut it down, this can be something as simple as having your vacuum on and positioned so the crud that comes out is sucked right up. Same when you clean the exchanger and other inside parts of the stove. But doing this won't help if your vacuum is part of the problem.

    Can you explain why you can't pull the insert out? Kind of hard to work on it if you can't get it out.

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