1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Blaze King, not my option

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by jrprusak, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. daleeper

    daleeper Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    525
    Loc:
    NC MO
    I'm not a good mathematician, but I can decipher those numbers for you:
    25,000,000 btu's available per cord of good hardwood, not even the very best. Something like white oak, mulberry.
    divided by cubic feet per cord (128)
    multiplied by cubic feet the firebox holds (3.75)
    multiplied by the efficiency of the stove (.8)
    divided by hours burned (17)

    Looks about right to me Solar. My old Royal Heir seems to be holding up to the numbers I cranked after buying, before running. People that have not run a cat stove with thermostatic air control just refuse to believe the results. It is not magic, they cannot put out more btu's than the wood can give, but it is a very controlled burn, and very little heat goes up the chimney, with very little fuss over running the stove. I'm anxious to see how my stove holds up under colder weather to see if it still will handle our heating needs, and distribute that heat as well as it has in the shoulder season.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. SolarAndWood

    SolarAndWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,770
    Loc:
    Syracuse NY
    Daleeper did a better job than I could. The other consideration is that you can use the full firebox, set the thermostat and get a relatively even delivery of those btus over the course of the burn cycle. There is no trying to slow a burn down with these stoves. I load it all the way every time, set the tstat and forget about it.

    For maximum output in cold and blowing weather, the good stuff comes out and then maybe 2/3 of the way through the burn some pine gets thrown on top. So, I probably burn 100 pounds of wood in those 12 hour burn cycles. Hopefully getting the shell of the house done and sealed up will greatly reduce how often this is required.

    I have been very impressed with the range of this stove. My old EPA stove overheated the house this time of year and couldn't keep up when it was cold and blowing.
  3. ecocavalier02

    ecocavalier02 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,441
    Loc:
    ct
    boy when the king is hungry u feed that thing. Lol
  4. jrprusak

    jrprusak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    This is a very good read, and is making my decision more dificult as to replacing my old stove with a CAT or NON-CAT....

    Living in a super insulated, tight home ,I am getting concerned if I over size a new stove and keep the temperature of the stove on low setting too much that it may be damaging to the CAT unit....

    Maybe a smaller unit would be better so it could be burned at a higher tempurature.....
  5. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,607
    Loc:
    Doylestown, PA

    I have never heard of that being a problem. I am not saying you are wrong, but I have never heard this to be an issue.

    Bottom line is; buy the stove that you think will work for your setup. You are the one that has to tend to it and live with it. Personally, I am not a fan of the looks of the Blaze King. I like cast iron and soap stone stoves. But, I also like a lot of the features that Blaze King offers with their Cat designs.

    I don't mind tending to multiple stoves. So, if I lived in your area I would probable look into purchasing more than one Woodstock Fireview or delay purchasing a stove an hope Woodstock releases their larger model sooner rather than later. But, those are my preferences, based on my likes and needs, not yours.

    The only thing I can tell you is to keep an open mind and don't make a rash decision since your burning season is far longer than mine.
  6. polaris

    polaris Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    418
    Loc:
    KY.
    As someone mentioned earlier Buck makes some really big decent stoves that typically cost a bit less, have an 8" collar and don't look all that bad.
    joe
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,214
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    I don't think this is going to be that big an issue if the old stove has worked well. How much wood/day are you going through in the old Earth Stove?
  8. jrprusak

    jrprusak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    That’s a tough one… past week with temps varying from +5 to -10, I use on average say the equivalent of 6 logs 6”-7” diameter, 22” long of birch per day… I will pay more attention and get more accurate on this so I have a good comparison after I replace the stove.

    Firewood in the interior does not have the density as wood in the lower 48, so not as many BTU’s…. Birch, Spruce is the best here. I sure miss burning that oak...
  9. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,607
    Loc:
    Doylestown, PA
    That doesn't seem too bad.
  10. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,087
    Loc:
    SW MI near Saugatuck
    Hi John,

    From what I've read, burning low and slow is one of cats' strong points, and they thrive on it. The cat with a flue creosote problem you reported is atypical--most report clean flues. I'd choose firebox size based on how many BTUs you want to produce between refills, not concerns about stove durability.

    The versatility to burn hot and fast or low and slow is one of the reasons cat stoves appeal to me, even though I had the same concerns as you--why pay for a cat when you don't have to, cats can be damaged by trashy fuel, and cats wear out eventually (though Blaze King warranties theirs for something like 6-8 years, on a sliding scale). Another downside of cats is the flame display may not be as pretty--cats can burn smoke from essentially a smoldering fire (though they don't have to), so on low burns the display can be dark and smokey.

    Pluses are the temperature versatility with a full firebox, low need for babysitting, and efficiency, particularly on low burns, where the flue gasses are around 200* F, and little energy is going up the stack.

    I am not saying that the stove is magic, or the best, the right choice for everyone, or that other stoves are bad. It's not a zero sum game--there can be lots of great stoves. The point of this thread is not to bash non-cats, but to clear up misconceptions about cats, so that you can make an informed decision on which of the many great stoves is right for you.

    I think you started a fine discussion, and I applaud your willingness to consider the great info and helpfulness this site offers. Folks have been quite friendly, helpful, and tolerant to this newb. :) Good luck!
  11. jrprusak

    jrprusak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Interesting, so you think burning a CAT on low is not bad for the combustor??

    As far as the flame display I do not care. The stove is in the basement and we spend all our time on the next 2 floors. One of my first posts on this site as to why all the new stoves have glass doors, I did not see it as something I needed, but have changed my mind after hearing so feedback. I just want efficient clean heat.

    My biggest issue is flue size, my current being 8” and using a smaller stove that only requires 6” I may have a draft issue without downsizing the entire flue. I may have the same problem using a larger stove and burning it on low also. In any event, if the flue does have to be relined with a 6", I could do that later, hopefully in the summer.
  12. Frostbit

    Frostbit Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    307
    Loc:
    Northwest Arctic Alaska

    John, you've inadvertently created a "my stove is better than your stove" / "cat vs non-cat" thread here. Its the nature of the make up of the constituents that frequent this forum. No different if you go to a truck forum and ask what kind of truck to buy...
    I'm here in Nome. You being in Fairbanks, and having vast experience burning wood with an older stove and wanting an upgrade, just do this: Check in with your friends and neighbors, take the time, and go and see what they are using. Ask lots of questions. Find out the facts on how their stoves work for them given your temperature extremes and the known wood supply (birch or spruce, I presume). Don't try to re-invent the wheel! I researched for nearly a year before I settled on what I bought. You've got a wealth of information living all around you that have already been down this road....go and get it. Just my two cents worth.
  13. jrprusak

    jrprusak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Funny, been there done that, especially in Nome, hell in Nome if you can find a empty barrel at fish camp and duct tape spam cans together for a chimney that's living in style after a night out at the BOT…..heehee
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,214
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    That's better than we are doing in this old box in a mild climate. Gotta love good insulation.
  15. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,225
    Loc:
    Rochester,Ny.
    I would like to add that a cat stove during a long low burn does not mean the cat is running low.
    Even 6 hours into a long burn my cat is over half and the stove top is somewhere between 250-300 degrees f on one or a little higher.
    When the stove calls for more heat the cat gets another boost into higher temps.
    When the stove is satisfied the air closes and then the cat will climb higher for awhile...then settle out around 1/2 or a little higher.
    Can't wait for cold weather to work this thing.
    Just awhile ago I had the air all the way up and it was ripping pretty good..600 on stove top.
    Anyways to play around I slammed the temp all the way down..what a light show..secondary burn before the cat ..rolling around like crazy..not sure if I should do that but I gota play! lol
  16. ecocavalier02

    ecocavalier02 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,441
    Loc:
    ct
    burning on low will not hurt the cat inless your wood is crap and you shut it down to early.thats when people run into trouble. moisture will warp the combutsor and will need to be replaced a lot sooner.
  17. Frostbit

    Frostbit Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    307
    Loc:
    Northwest Arctic Alaska
    Whatever.
  18. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,087
    Loc:
    SW MI near Saugatuck
    Hi John,

    For my part I am more than glad to pass on what I've read here--I like to be helpful, and it helps me to clarify my thinking--especially if folks correct me on things I've misunderstood. It's all good.

    Here's a couple of resources for you.

    Blaze King's instructional video: http://blazeking.com/video1.html

    In addition to BK info, it has some generally useful advice, like using high quality wood that has been cured at least two years--folks on here continually talk about the importance of dry wood.

    And here's a brochure showing a graph of long burn performance: http://blazeking.com/Brochures-En/WoodProductPDF/KingWoodStove.pdf

    It's relevant to your question, because BK brags about low burns, not caution against them. And BK owners report no problems burning the King low with an 8" flue--it's what the manufacturer recommends.

    Regarding the clogged up King at your dealer, something is seriously wrong there, and an operator worth his salt would have realized it and never let it get to that point. For example, one of the key qualities of EPA stoves--cat or non--is that once they're correctly warmed up they produce virtually no smoke out of the chimney. For your dealer's chimney to be that clogged up, it had to be belching smoke for a while (burning wrong), and *never* burned hot. Both are no-nos.

    Anyway, I hope that helps, and that you get good information that helps you pick on of the great stoves--cat or non--that is right for you. Have fun!
  19. jrprusak

    jrprusak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Blow me over.. I just watched the video... the guy sticking his hand in the flue just above the stove after the CAT was in operation is unreal. A good video for the wife to understand how to operate a stove with a CAT unit…

    I’m bending over to the BK with a CAT….. I do like the “Parlor” model with the legs…… not sure if the King has that option
  20. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,848
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.

    Thanks Dale, very easy to follow. Where does the .8 efficiency come from though?
  21. North of 60

    North of 60 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,449
    Loc:
    Yukon Canada
    Hogz 1.0 = 100% .8 = 80% as the multiplier. That is +or- the stoves efficiency rating from the manufacture. I think 83% is their # so he rounded it down.
  22. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,087
    Loc:
    SW MI near Saugatuck
    Yes it does. And so you know, in my pestering of BK, they told me that the King can be had with the door in painted black, gold, satin (nickle) or windowless. And I saw on the auto-rain site that it seems to be available in brown. Not that you care much in your basement?

    You also might want to consider if you want to run it radiant or convection--bare, or with blower and top convection deck. Look at the literature for options, and search on the threads for radiant and convection. I don't know what you'd want in your basement--maybe convection, so you don't waste a lot of energy heating up your basement walls? The hot air would rise, and you could finagle it upstairs by using a fan to blow cold air down your basement stairs.

    Hope this helps, and have fun with whatever stove you get.
  23. daleeper

    daleeper Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    525
    Loc:
    NC MO
    Solar is the one that used the .8, I would guess from the mfg or epa efficiency number, rounded for easy figuring. That is a number that could be (has been) argued, but you have to start somewhere, knowing that you are not able to use all the btu's that is in the wood.
  24. jrprusak

    jrprusak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Radiant works fine for me. The house is super insulated and was designed to incorporate the use of a wood stove. The stove is centrally located in the open basement adjacent to larger open stair well that goes up to the next 2 levels. The heat distributes evenly up to all levels.

    The use of a simple box fan moves the heat faster if needed. I never did not care much for the stove fan as it is too noisy for me, hope the newer ones have gotten quieter. In extreme conditions when the temp may never get above -30* for weeks on end, I set the furnace fan on a timer to circulate the entire house a few times a day.
  25. Wild Fire

    Wild Fire New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Loc:
    Alaska
    Hi John,
    I just want to comment that the Bad working BK you encountered has to be from improper use. Some people do not realize that the bypass damper has to be shut all the way until you hear the "click". I too met someone that was not impressed with the BK and found out they were not shutting the bypass damper correctly.

Share This Page