blaze king princess problem

[jtb51b]

Having some trouble with my free standing princess.. I have had this stove less than a year, installed it in February of 2010.. Stove worked flawlessly throwout the rest of the 2009-2010 winter and seemed to work well during the early part of this season. All of the sudden it seemed as though my cat started getting sluggish and wood consumption was up. I figured I had gunked the cat up burning so low, so I burned with the stove on high for about 5 hours.. I had my basement nearly 100 degrees that night at 10pm, loaded the stove and turned it down to about 1.25 the next morning I awoke to a cold house and a full load of wood just simmering along. I thought I had turned it down TOO much so that day I ran it on 1.5 and burned 2 full loads in about 8 hours. I called BK and after some discussion was told to remove the cover off the thermostat and observe it. I observed there was NO movement (other than if I moved the knob) no matter what the stove top temp was (I started a chart with an infared thermometer but after no change from 300 to 550 stove top I kinda figured a chart was pointless).. Well, called BK back and was told that the thermostat had a possibility of being hung up from some excessive silicone used in manufacturing, I was told to cool the stove, pull the thermostat and vcall them back for test procedures. I did these things and found some silicone exactly where they expected to find some, put the stove back together and ran that weekend with no change in behavior. Called BK on monday and was told that the thermo must have gone bad from running under load and they would replace it. I received the new part today and after installing it I STILL do not get and movement from the damper no matter the stove temp. I did check the coil in both thermostat units with a bic lighter (as BK said they tested them) and the damper WILL MOVE in both when off the stove. Once installed it seems like they never get hot/cold enough to make any change to the damper plate. Does anyone have any ideas? I am at my ends with this, I bought this stove from a dealer in Wisconsin (there are no dealers in the state of Alabama, or within 200 miles for that matter) that was recommended by a friend on here. Does anyone know if there is some sort of passage that the heat travels through in order to heat up the back of the stove where the thermostat reads? Maybe if so it could be blocked some how? Any other ideas? I am flying through wood early in the night and then out by 2am and burning NG to heat. I was doing this good with my Buck 21!! Its just weird that it worked so very well last year and then this year its just not working AT ALL.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jason

 

[Renovation]

Double post, please ignore.

 

[Renovation]

Having some trouble with my free standing princess.. I have had this stove less than a year, installed it in February of 2010.. Stove worked flawlessly throwout the rest of the 2009-2010 winter and seemed to work well during the early part of this season. All of the sudden it seemed as though my cat started getting sluggish and wood consumption was up. I figured I had gunked the cat up burning so low, so I burned with the stove on high for about 5 hours.. I had my basement nearly 100 degrees that night at 10pm, loaded the stove and turned it down to about 1.25 the next morning I awoke to a cold house and a full load of wood just simmering along. I thought I had turned it down TOO much so that day I ran it on 1.5 and burned 2 full loads in about 8 hours. I called BK and after some discussion was told to remove the cover off the thermostat and observe it. I observed there was NO movement (other than if I moved the knob) no matter what the stove top temp was (I started a chart with an infared thermometer but after no change from 300 to 550 stove top I kinda figured a chart was pointless).. Well, called BK back and was told that the thermostat had a possibility of being hung up from some excessive silicone used in manufacturing, I was told to cool the stove, pull the thermostat and vcall them back for test procedures. I did these things and found some silicone exactly where they expected to find some, put the stove back together and ran that weekend with no change in behavior. Called BK on monday and was told that the thermo must have gone bad from running under load and they would replace it. I received the new part today and after installing it I STILL do not get and movement from the damper no matter the stove temp. I did check the coil in both thermostat units with a bic lighter (as BK said they tested them) and the damper WILL MOVE in both when off the stove. Once installed it seems like they never get hot/cold enough to make any change to the damper plate. Does anyone have any ideas? I am at my ends with this, I bought this stove from a dealer in Wisconsin (there are no dealers in the state of Alabama, or within 200 miles for that matter) that was recommended by a friend on here. Does anyone know if there is some sort of passage that the heat travels through in order to heat up the back of the stove where the thermostat reads? Maybe if so it could be blocked some how? Any other ideas? I am flying through wood early in the night and then out by 2am and burning NG to heat. I was doing this good with my Buck 21!! Its just weird that it worked so very well last year and then this year its just not working AT ALL.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jason

Hi Jason,

That is puzzling! Though I am not expert, I have some troubleshooting suggestions:

[snip--previous tests]

HTH, and good luck!

Hi Jason,

I thought of an extra step, and included it below. Good luck!

Hi Jason,

That is puzzling! Though I am not expert, I have some troubleshooting suggestions:

1. Check with your lighter, and make sure the valve moves towards *closing* when heated--there have been some faulty coils that move in the wrong direction.

2. Put your new assembly in with the cover off, adjust manually until it is partially open, and use your lighter or whatever to heat the coil. Does it move? If not, it is still hung up or binding somehow, and that's your problem. Does it move towards closed? If not, you have a faulty coil.

2a. If the valve passes the test in 2, run the stove with the thermostat assembly cover off--does the valve work?

3. If the assembly passes the test in 2a, go ahead and put your cover back on. Some have posted that you have to make sure the valve is *closed* before putting the cover on, or it will bind. Try again--working now?

HTH, and good luck!

 

[cmonSTART]

Two things I would (re)check are the door gasket and the cat.

Make sure the door gasket passes the dollar bill test. They can compress when they're new requiring latch adjustment.

Also check again that the cat is clean. With the stove cold remove the cat cover and visually check it. Vacuum it gently if needed.

When you turn the thermostat down to about 1.5, does the cat thermometer stay well inside the active range, or does it drop below it?

 

[jtb51b]

Having some trouble with my free standing princess.. I have had this stove less than a year, installed it in February of 2010.. Stove worked flawlessly throwout the rest of the 2009-2010 winter and seemed to work well during the early part of this season. All of the sudden it seemed as though my cat started getting sluggish and wood consumption was up. I figured I had gunked the cat up burning so low, so I burned with the stove on high for about 5 hours.. I had my basement nearly 100 degrees that night at 10pm, loaded the stove and turned it down to about 1.25 the next morning I awoke to a cold house and a full load of wood just simmering along. I thought I had turned it down TOO much so that day I ran it on 1.5 and burned 2 full loads in about 8 hours. I called BK and after some discussion was told to remove the cover off the thermostat and observe it. I observed there was NO movement (other than if I moved the knob) no matter what the stove top temp was (I started a chart with an infared thermometer but after no change from 300 to 550 stove top I kinda figured a chart was pointless).. Well, called BK back and was told that the thermostat had a possibility of being hung up from some excessive silicone used in manufacturing, I was told to cool the stove, pull the thermostat and vcall them back for test procedures. I did these things and found some silicone exactly where they expected to find some, put the stove back together and ran that weekend with no change in behavior. Called BK on monday and was told that the thermo must have gone bad from running under load and they would replace it. I received the new part today and after installing it I STILL do not get and movement from the damper no matter the stove temp. I did check the coil in both thermostat units with a bic lighter (as BK said they tested them) and the damper WILL MOVE in both when off the stove. Once installed it seems like they never get hot/cold enough to make any change to the damper plate. Does anyone have any ideas? I am at my ends with this, I bought this stove from a dealer in Wisconsin (there are no dealers in the state of Alabama, or within 200 miles for that matter) that was recommended by a friend on here. Does anyone know if there is some sort of passage that the heat travels through in order to heat up the back of the stove where the thermostat reads? Maybe if so it could be blocked some how? Any other ideas? I am flying through wood early in the night and then out by 2am and burning NG to heat. I was doing this good with my Buck 21!! Its just weird that it worked so very well last year and then this year its just not working AT ALL.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jason

Hi Jason,

That is puzzling! Though I am not expert, I have some troubleshooting suggestions:

[snip--previous tests]

HTH, and good luck!

Hi Jason,

I thought of an extra step, and included it below. Good luck!

Hi Jason,

That is puzzling! Though I am not expert, I have some troubleshooting suggestions:

1. Check with your lighter, and make sure the valve moves towards *closing* when heated--there have been some faulty coils that move in the wrong direction.

2. Put your new assembly in with the cover off, adjust manually until it is partially open, and use your lighter or whatever to heat the coil. Does it move? If not, it is still hung up or binding somehow, and that's your problem. Does it move towards closed? If not, you have a faulty coil.

2a. If the valve passes the test in 2, run the stove with the thermostat assembly cover off--does the valve work?

3. If the assembly passes the test in 2a, go ahead and put your cover back on. Some have posted that you have to make sure the valve is *closed* before putting the cover on, or it will bind. Try again--working now?

HTH, and good luck!

George, here are my findings:
1. moves towards the closed position (both)
2. There is no way to reach the coil with the thermo installed. I have heated the STOVE and it does NOT move at all. (other than with the knob)
2a. I have ran with the cover off all night and have noted NO movement not directly related to my hand (turning the knob)
3. I do install with the flapper closed, there is a silver screw that makes sure the flapper does not fall in the opposite direction of closed (if that makes sense)

Thank you for your help/insight.

Jason

 

[jtb51b]

Two things I would (re)check are the door gasket and the cat.

Make sure the door gasket passes the dollar bill test. They can compress when they're new requiring latch adjustment.

Also check again that the cat is clean. With the stove cold remove the cat cover and visually check it. Vacuum it gently if needed.

When you turn the thermostat down to about 1.5, does the cat thermometer stay well inside the active range, or does it drop below it?

I will re-check the door gasket ASAP, does the stove need to be cold when checking? I did check this (BK's suggestion as well) in the beginning and did find it needing adjustment (only slightly) but after the door latch broke off in my hand during adjustment and I had to weld up another one I kinda didn't spend much more time on it..

The cat seems to work well, at 1.5 with the blower OFF the cat stays around the 2'oclock area and with the blower on drops to around the 11'oclock area.. This is assuming a pretty full load of wood, of course its a touch lower with a half load. Seems not to have changed much this year since burning hot that one night.. Before then it just seemed to take a bit longer to get to median range of the active on a warm reload, it was working just not quite as quickly as I remembered.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it!

Jason

 

[Renovation]

2. There is no way to reach the coil with the thermo installed. I have heated the STOVE and it does NOT move at all. (other than with the knob)

Thank you for your help/insight.

Jason

"No way"??!! "No way???" Come on man! That is not the attitude that made America great! Did MacArthur say "no way"??!! No way

I bet if you're resourceful, you can find a way to heat or cool that thermostat with it on the stove. A match on a wire, ice cube on same, squirt gun, heat gun, hair dryer--you can do eet! Get up that hill!

If it were me, I wouldn't rest until I knew how/if that assembly responds to temp changes when installed. That tells you what's up. Either heat isn't getting to that assembly, or it's binding on the stove.

You could try IM-ing RustyShackleford (I think that's right). He fixed a malfunctioning thermostat on his Blaze King.

Or you could spend $50 on one of those non-contact IR laser Thermometers, and see if the flap moves at the same temps on and off the stove.

Those are just some thoughts. I'm glad to help if I can, and know you'll figure it out.

 

[Lanningjw]

You need to check the door gasket tention. Do you know how to do the dollar bill test? It may be as simple as ajusting the door. I have heard that alot of folks forget to check and make ajustments to the door.

I wonder who at BK told you to check the T-stat with a Bic lighter?
JL

 

[jtb51b]

You need to check the door gasket tention. Do you know how to do the dollar bill test? It may be as simple as ajusting the door. I have heard that alot of folks forget to check and make ajustments to the door.

I wonder who at BK told you to check the T-stat with a Bic lighter?
JL

The door gasket would make the thermostat not move at all? I assume this could be possible by moving too much air through and never really causing the heat to move back and stay in? Anyhow, I will check it asap.. I was told by either Keith or Chris (can't remember the guys name exactly) that a bic lighter was the method he used to check a thermostat for a response.

Thanks again guys I am really sore about this stove right now so be patient with me!

Jason

 

[jtb51b]

Ok. I checked the door gasket and was able to pull a dollar bill out at the lower right hand side of the stove. No where else.. Talked back with BK and they said they will send a new gasket ASAP. I am also to check the ash pan drain plug (I do not have an ash pan) to make sure it is not loose. I found out I had talked with CHARLIE regarding the bic lighter test (didn't want to provide mis-information).. I am to try the ash pan gasket as well as play with the door gasket (with shims as I am out of threads) this weekend and Chris (apparently the person in charge) on monday to figure out just exactly where we are. BK has absolutely the BEST customer support I have EVER dealt with. Dan (the guy I have been working with) has been PHENOMENAL and the rest of the staff has really been on the ball to get this handled quickly. I sincerely hope we can resolve this quickly and I urge anyone with ANY questions about a BK product to give them a call and allow them the opportunity to provide the type of service we all deserve.. Thanks again Hearth.com if anyone has any other advice or suggestions I am very open to hear any ideas!


Jason

 

[Beetle-Kill]

jtb51b- When you check the ash pan cover plate, throw a small bead of hi-temp stove cement around the plate contact areas, top and bottom. Should prevent any leaks from the top plate warping. I have to ask- where did your handle break? Was it the closing cam/ wedge? Mines aluminium, and I've worn a slight groove in it . I was/ am going to machine a new steel one at some point, did yours break? And you're right, Chris is pretty cool. I shot the chit with him about shooting for quite a while, few months back.

 

[Renovation]

if anyone has any other advice or suggestions I am very open to hear any ideas!


Jason

Sorry, I'm fresh out! lol

 

[SolarAndWood]

A few ?s

Where is the heat going? If you are going through 2 loads of wood in 8 hours, either the house or the outdoors is getting warm.

I assume your house is not where the heat is going which leads me to believe that more air is going through the stove than you want. If you do a full reload and close the bypass, can you turn the thermostat down and have the burn rate decrease? Or does it keep going at high burn?

What were the results of the dollar bill test? With that big rope gasket, it can look like it is fine but not actually seal the door. I had to take the nut off the latch catch to get mine tight a few weeks ago. I had a new gasket but the old one looked fine, the door just wasn't tight enough. I figured I'd get some more time out of the gasket by removing the nut.

BTW, I agree that the door latch is not one of the finer points of these stoves. Not horrible, but could be a lot better.

EDIT: read your post above closer about the dollar bill test...my guess is that is it. These stoves seem very sensitive to airflow.

 

[Lanningjw]

I am also planning on replacing the stove rope in my PI door. Cannot make any ajustment to my door latch, much better to just replace the gasket.You can call your dealer, tell him you need 6 feet of door rope gasket, part number 0186. Also tell him you need a bottle of gasket cement part number ZGLUE. I did this and recieved it with a few days.

 

[Renovation]

EDIT: read your post above closer about the dollar bill test...my guess is that is it. These stoves seem very sensitive to airflow.

Wow, do you think a faulty gasket could keep the stove so cold that the thermostat never moves?

That would be good to know, and would solve his problem.

 

[Lanningjw]

EDIT: read your post above closer about the dollar bill test...my guess is that is it. These stoves seem very sensitive to airflow.

Wow, do you think a faulty gasket could keep the stove so cold that the thermostat never moves?

That would be good to know, and would solve his problem.

First things first, and see what happens after the gasket is replaced. Gaskets should be checked twice a year and then either ajust the door latch or replace the gasket as needed. I would only use the OEM door rope gasket as it is made for this heating machine.

 

[SolarAndWood]

EDIT: read your post above closer about the dollar bill test...my guess is that is it. These stoves seem very sensitive to airflow.

Wow, do you think a faulty gasket could keep the stove so cold that the thermostat never moves?

That would be good to know, and would solve his problem.

All the thermostat does is control airflow. If the stove is already getting more air than it needs through a bad door seal, the thermostat is essentially out of the game. Back to your other thread about pipe size, what happens when you don't have a good door seal and you leave the house after a full reload?

 

[Lanningjw]

Put a new door gasket on last night. This morning I fired up the insert. I am having great results. Seem to have more control over the amount of fire. My glass is staying much cleaner and the cat temp is more controllable with out having to turn the t-stat to low. Was easy to install. I can see fire angels again, guys with a BK's will know what I mean. The fire is dancing again. Right now I am 5 hours into this load with the fan on medium and a cat temp of 1200. It is 10 degrees outside with a wind chill of -4. House is warm!

I am kinda thinking you need to replace the gasket as a yearly thing!

 

[RustyShackleford]

You could try IM-ing RustyShackleford (I think that's right). He fixed a malfunctioning thermostat on his Blaze King.

Never mind, I tend to scan for BK-related threads anyhow.

I didn't exactly "fix" my thermostat; I just identified it as one with a reverse-wound coil and replaced it with the one my dealer (out of state) promptly shipped.

I will tell you that when I was trouble-shooting the problem, I attempted to make the thermostat move by sticking a propane torch inside the stove and trying to heat the wall behind the thermostat. It seemed kinda like a weird thing to do and I was careful not to overdo it, but I didn't get any movement. I quickly realized that the best way to heat up the stove and check for thermostat movement was simply to build a fire (which of course exactly duplicates the conditions under which you WANT the thing to move .

Your's is a puzzler. If it's doing the right thing when you apply heat without it mounted in the stove, but doesn't react to heat when it's in the stove, it seems like it's GOTTA be binding somehow. Good luck figuring it out.

 

[jtb51b]

I took everything apart again today. I worked with the door latch enough to get another round and a pretty good seal (you have to tug pretty good to get a dollar out in the worst spot).. Seemed like there was still a little silicone on the back of the thermostat plate which I am CERTAIN I removed this time. I took the stove pipe off and cleaned the single wall as well as the chimney, this allowed me to get to the back of the stove with more tools to remove the gunk.. I have now re-sealed the new thermostat and am waiting on it to dry before lighting a fire. I was very dissapointed with the condition of the pipe, I assume the build-up is from the recent troubles as I cleaned it after last winter and it was very nice. I am burning dry wood (under 20%mc at worst, usually around 12) but I guess you can gunk up with good wood if your not giving the stove enough air.. I was told by Charlie at BK that the silicone on the thermostat is not needed but I believe he is mistaken or maybe he did not understand where it was. I see that if there is no sealant around the base of the thermostat (at the air intake not the back of the stove) then there would be a big air leak that could basically bypass the flapper. That being said I CAREFULLY cleaned and replaced the silicone around it to make sure.. Sorry to jump around so much but I'm trying to cover all the questions. I will be replacing the single wall in the house with double wall IF I keep this stove. If I cannot make this thing right then I will replace it with something else.. The build-up in the pipe was scary for such a short time and if it can't get back to normal I feel that its dangerous to keep in my home. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions you guys have provided I will report back tonight how she is running, hopefully I will have good news!!

Jason

 

[jtb51b]

OK. The stove is working properly. I built a fire an hour ago, set the thermo to 1.75 and watched it die to a mere hint of glow. About 15 minutes of that (and after the secondaries lightshow had stopped) I cut the fan on high and about 10 minutes later BOOF, and we have active secondaries again! WOO HOO I am one happy guy. I just wish I knew EXACTLY what I did to repair it. I have changed too many small things to pinpoint it but I am still very happy.. I am headed out of town tomorrow and knowing that my wife can do this by herself again really is a good thing.. Thanks again guys I really appreciate all your support with this, it was looking bad bad bad, but made a 180!

Jason

 

[Lanningjw]

I am very happy, is your house nice and warm now?

 

[Renovation]

Thanks again guys I really appreciate all your support with this, it was looking bad bad bad, but made a 180!

Jason

Rockin' good news, Jason, and congratulations!

I learned something here--I never would have thought that what initially appeared to be a small gasket leak could cause such huge problems. That's very good to know.

The other take-away is keeping one's head when things go wrong. It can be so frustrating and upsetting, and I have to remind myself that really helps to take a deep breath, get perspective, and realize I'll get it sorted out eventually.

Happy Burning!

 

[jtb51b]

House is getting warm, its been off all day but luckily its been really warm here today (51ish) so it was not bad. I am not totally sure that it was the gasket, I actually tightened it yesterday and had a dismal night. I think there was a large air leak under the thermo, and a small air leak on the door gasket AND a bit of buildup in the pipes causing the problem. It looks to be going well so far, but tonight will tell the tale.. Its 68 upstairs right now and about 80 in the basement. My goal is to keep it at those temps all night on one load of wood. If it does that then its back to where it was when I bought it. I think I will put the double wall pipe in next week when I get back from WV, maybe that will help keep a good draw and cleaner pipes in the long run..

Jason

 

[Lanningjw]

House is getting warm, its been off all day but luckily its been really warm here today (51ish) so it was not bad. I am not totally sure that it was the gasket, I actually tightened it yesterday and had a dismal night. I think there was a large air leak under the thermo, and a small air leak on the door gasket AND a bit of buildup in the pipes causing the problem. It looks to be going well so far, but tonight will tell the tale.. Its 68 upstairs right now and about 80 in the basement. My goal is to keep it at those temps all night on one load of wood. If it does that then its back to where it was when I bought it. I think I will put the double wall pipe in next week when I get back from WV, maybe that will help keep a good draw and cleaner pipes in the long run..

Jason

Jason, did you replace the door gasket or just tighten the door latch?