Blower vs. box fan?

[yardatwork]

Ok...need some advice. I have the Summers Heat 1800 sq. ft. wood burner from Lowe's. I can not get this thing to produce much heat. It has the fiber board on top of some reburn tubes and no damper. I use two year seasoned wood and when the fire is really going strong in the box, I can place my had about 1/8" from the top of the stove and just leave it there without getting burnt. I used to have a 1000sq. ft. non-EPA stove and that little bugger did so much better with producing heat. So I'm thinking about removing the heat tubes and fiber board and putting a damper in the black chimney pipe. I even went as far as contacting Summers Heat regarding my lack of heat from this stove. All they said was to make sure the fiber board is all the way to the back of the stove...mine is all the way in the back and I knew that it should be. They were of no help.

My question...well two questions...without a damper isn't all of my heat just going up the chimney? and second...would the additional blower for $149 be worth it? Right now I have a box fan behind the stove but without any heat coming off the top of the wood burner, there isn't much heat to blow around. I used the box fan technic with my old woodburner and never even turned on the blower attached to the stove. I found this heated the house better. Any help and or suggestions...thanks.

 

[firefighterjake]

OK, stupid question . . . but I've got to ask . . . I assume you have a thermometer on the stove and/or flue so you can tell just how hot the fire is in the firebox . . . the reason I ask is that you can sometimes have some very impressive looking flames, but not a lot of heat.

Also with the thermometer once you've brought the firebox up to temp, you will know when you can start to cut back on the air flow (assuming you do so) which in turn should lead to decreased flame action, but more secondary action (i.e. the smoke burns and you end up with "ghost flames" or "the Northern Lights of Hades" in your fire box) which will in turn produce more heat. With my stove generally more flames = less heat once the stove is up to temp . . . If I turn down the air I end up with less flame action and more heat.

OK, you might already know that . . . and if so . . . I apologize . . . I just had to make sure you (or other folks reading this) realized this fact.

Something else you might consider is to try moving the heat by taking a box fan or floor fan and blowing it toward the woodstove from the adjoining room . . . this has the effect of moving the heated air to the cooler areas of the home. I've found this to be more effective than attempting to blow the air from the stove to the cooler parts of the home.

In any case, perhaps some other SH or Englander owners can offer more advice for you.

 

[BrotherBart]

There are enough people on here with that stove heating their houses well that the problem has to be either the wood, the chimney or the way you are running it.

Tell us about the chimney setup, the wood and how you start and maintain the fire. And yes, we know it worked great with the old stove, but humor us.

 

[Corey]

Yes, depending on what time frame you're looking at, the stove won't be 'instantly' hot just because the flames are in the firebox. It usually takes ~30 minutes of decent fire to get up to full operating temp - about the same time you start to develop a good coal bed. So if you're just doing some pre-season 'flash' fires, you probably won't get much heat.

The stove should have some primary air controls. This is pretty much like adjusting the carburetor on an old engine...too much or too little air will cause poor operation. Too much air and all your heat flows up the flue before it has a chance to transfer to the stove firebox. Too little air and you won't get a complete burn which may send smoke up the flue, again loosing heat.

As for blowers, opinion varies but I added a blower to my insert and it really transformed from a radiant single room heater to a convective whole house furnace. I would say take a little time to experiment with longer burns and the air controls. You should be able to get a stove top temp of 500ºF pretty easily, then decide if you need to spread extra heat to the rest of the space. If so, look into the blower.

 

[yardatwork]

Thanks guys! These darn new stoves seems like so much work where the old ones were as simple as SUPER HUGE FLAME, damper control and heat away. I'm hoping its just user error. I buy wood from the same guy for the past four years. So basically the same wood as I was using in the non-EPA stove is the same I'm using in this new stove.

I'll just keep experimenting. I do cut back on the air flow as mentioned once the fire gets up and running, so now I just need to find the perfect spot on the draft and go from there. I was just assuming the more flame means more heat. Ahhh...sometimes less is actually more. Thanks for explaining what those reheat tubes actually do...they reburn the gases. I can see how these new stoves make more heat after that simple answer.

 

[Pagey]

If I read your other thread correctly, you said the wood you use sits in log/round form for 2 years before being split, correct?

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks guys! These darn new stoves seems like so much work where the old ones were as simple as SUPER HUGE FLAME, damper control and heat away. I'm hoping its just user error. I buy wood from the same guy for the past four years. So basically the same wood as I was using in the non-EPA stove is the same I'm using in this new stove.

I'll just keep experimenting. I do cut back on the air flow as mentioned once the fire gets up and running, so now I just need to find the perfect spot on the draft and go from there. I was just assuming the more flame means more heat. Ahhh...sometimes less is actually more. Thanks for explaining what those reheat tubes actually do...they reburn the gases. I can see how these new stoves make more heat after that simple answer.

OK, so maybe my first question wasn't so stupid . . . and don't feel bad . . . it's a learning experience to know how to run the stove.

I'm still hoping a SH/Englander user (or maybe even someone who happens to work for the company -- hint hint -- may offer you some better suggestions), but in the meantime here's what I do to get heat from my stove and a longer burn cycle . . . try experimenting and see if there are any changes.

Fuel: This is crucial. You really do need good, seasoned wood. Most folks recommend the wood be cut, split and stacked for 9 months to a year before burning to really dry it out (longer for some species such as oak.) You also need (like old stoves) to start off with kindling and get a good bed of coals going before you get any meaningful heat from the stove to heat up the room. Obviously, more fuel generally means more heat.

The way these stoves work is by reburning the smoke (as mentioned) and to do this the stove needs to be brought up to a certain temp . . . in my stove I get the stove up to this temp by starting the fire (either the traditional way or top-down method). At this point my stove door is ajar and the air control is open all the way. Typically when my flue temp reaches 400-600 degrees I will shut the door and wait a bit and then slowly turn down the air control (for me this is a 15-20 minute affair.)

If I turn down the air too much the fire begins to die down and gets all smoky -- no meaningful heat. If I leave the air control all the way open I get some great flames but most of the heat goes right up the flue and out the chimney vs. being reburned and coming out into the living space. It's a finesse thing and something you learn over time, but sooner or later you'll learn to slowly dial back the air and know where to set the air control so you end up with few flames other than the secondary burn and the result is the stove temp will rise typically and the flue temp will normally stay about the same. After about a half hour to 45 minutes you can feel a notable difference in the room as the heat will be pouring out of the stove.

To move the heat to other adjacent rooms try pointing the fan towards the stove while in the doorway of that room.


When I don't get a lot of heat it's typically because my wood isn't as well seasoned as it should be and the energy that would be used to give off heat to my house is being used to drive out the moisture in the wood and as a result the secondary combustion is not occurring, I have not turned down the air low enough after getting a fire established and as a result a lot of heat is going out the chimney or I have turned down the air control too much or too soon and as a result the fire is smoldering and not producing heat.

Good luck . . . hope this may help . . . but if it doesn't stay tuned . . . we have a long history (well "we" mostly being other folks) of problem solving and finding solutions to wood burning problems.

 

[branchburner]

Something else you might consider is to try moving the heat by taking a box fan or floor fan and blowing it toward the woodstove from the adjoining room . . . this has the effect of moving the heated air to the cooler areas of the home. I've found this to be more effective than attempting to blow the air from the stove to the cooler parts of the home.

Agreed. I have a stove in a brick hearth and sometimes use two fans: one smaller one on the floor at the edge of the hearth, blowing cooler floor air under and behind the stove, which creates a nice blast of warm air above; and a larger fan in one doorway, blowing cooler house air into the warm room.

But first get your stove to work. It's very possible that your same old wood was good enough for your non-EPA stove, but the newer stoves are much more finicky eaters.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Thanks guys! These darn new stoves seems like so much work where the old ones were as simple as SUPER HUGE FLAME, damper control and heat away. I'm hoping its just user error. I buy wood from the same guy for the past four years. So basically the same wood as I was using in the non-EPA stove is the same I'm using in this new stove.

I'll just keep experimenting. I do cut back on the air flow as mentioned once the fire gets up and running, so now I just need to find the perfect spot on the draft and go from there. I was just assuming the more flame means more heat. Ahhh...sometimes less is actually more. Thanks for explaining what those reheat tubes actually do...they reburn the gases. I can see how these new stoves make more heat after that simple answer.

Before reading the rest of my post, please look at my signature line and you'll see that I've heated with wood for a while now.

Contrary to what you are stating, these new stoves are fantastic! Once you learn how to operate them you will find they are just so much better than the older stoves.

You have some excellent advice given in the above posts so I'll leave that alone except to suggest you have a thermometer on the top of the stove and on the flue pipe if possible. You will be able to get a better handle on what is happening. But don't buy just any old stove thermometer as many of them are junk. Woodstock has some excellent ones and I've heard of another but can't think of the name right now. Perhaps someone will chime in. (We got a couple as gifts; they are junk, so be careful.)

Good luck and we're wishing onto you a better burning this winter.

 

[Jags]

One simple suggestion: leave the fans alone until you have that stove up to the proper operating temps. Your hurting the results you are looking for.