1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Blown fuse issues on Harman, Breckwell, Englander, or any stove.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by kinsmanstoves, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,354
    Loc:
    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403
    If you have a blown fuse issue on a stove do not just replace the fuse with another or larger fuse. There is a reason the fuse blew. Trace the problem and you will find the reason. Fuses do not blow with a power surge and the fuse does not get worn out and simply blow. The reason a fuse blows is that the circuit is drawing to many amps from one component or more. Yes there can be a ground issue such as not a grounded circuit or wiring issue. Time to pull out the meter and check motors and igniter. If you do not own a meter or know how to use one, do not open the back of your stove and call someone that knows what they are doing.

    NEVER REPLACE THE FUSE WITH A LARGER ONE OR WRAP IT IN FOIL.!!!
    stoveguy2esw likes this.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. Harvey Schneider

    Harvey Schneider Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    964
    Loc:
    Southbury, CT
    Not always true. Fuses can, under some circumstances, fatigue from use. That being said, it is always wise to err on the side of safety and investigate the cause of failure before replacing a fuse.
    Replacing a fuse with a larger size is like deciding that you know more about the circuit than the Engineers that designed the product. It just ain't so.
    This is another circumstance where you can void the agency certification of the design and, therefore, be the cause of a fire. Insurance companies take a dim view of that behavior.
    heat seeker likes this.
  3. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,846
    Loc:
    madison hgts. va
    fuses generally protect against shorts to ground mostly though these would be "internal" shorts due to a grounded wire or a component which goes to ground internally. as above sometimes fuses can fatigue and fail just as a lightbulb burns out.

    also, never install a fuse with a higher amp rating or voltage rating than the one supplied by the manufacturer. this is quite important as allowing too much current through a circuit board can cause damage to the board and they usually are not cheap.

    usually my first step in assisting a customer with blown fuses is to disconnect unit from power and physically inspect each wire from componnent to board. in pellet stoves there are "hot spots" which if a wire were to come into contact with could melt the casing of the wire and allow it to ground to the chassis of the unit. usually manufacturers will have restraints to prevent these wires from touching these hot spots but ocasionally they may still manage to get to them.

    any troubleshooting beyond this should be performed by a technician or the owner should be at least guided by a tech in further troubleshooting.

    remember also, while 110/60 will generally not kill you , it will "piss you off" at the speed of light, always doublecheck with each troubleshooting step that power is not connected with the unit
  4. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Loc:
    South of the beloved Patriots
    Fuses are to be sized and coordinated to allow for inrush, fatigue should not be a factor.
    SteveB and kinsmanstoves like this.
  5. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Loc:
    South of the beloved Patriots
    I hate to contradict you Mike, 110 is the leading killer (as it is most common).
    As an Electrician, I can't let that one ride;)
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  6. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,846
    Loc:
    madison hgts. va
    yeah, your right, though if i had a nickle for every time one of these stoves had popped me for being stupid and not having the unit unplugged while i was working on it i'd be a rich man by now. still it is important to ensure that the unit is unplugged any time you are doing anything inside of it that has to do with proximity to wiring
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  7. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,059
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Bear gets popcorn and a brew, awaiting the possible ensuing exchange between an EE and an Electrician on fuses.

    Mike,

    I'm siding with WoodPorn on the comment you made about the 110/60, the utility companies usually take great pains in warn people to avoid down lines and keeping metal ladders away from all power lines feeding your house, as do electronics makers.

    I'll agree that it will "piss you off" when you get zapped in a non lethal manner.
  8. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,354
    Loc:
    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403

    I been holding back.

    Eric
  9. Harvey Schneider

    Harvey Schneider Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    964
    Loc:
    Southbury, CT
    110/60 is more dangerous than 240/60, 220/50 or DC. The only reason we have it is that Nicola Tesla decided that it is the ideal compromise for power transmission and utilization. DC and the higher Voltages effectively clamp muscles in a contracted state and when you fall over the muscles resume working (most of the time). 110/60 is more likely than the others to put your heart in a fibrillation, whether you fall over or not. Of course it depends on the shock pathway. Any shock that passes a current through your heart (right hand to left foot for instance) puts you at risk. A shock from right hand to right wrist will just piss you off.
  10. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,059
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Just for giggles I'll toss out repeated expansion and contraction related to temperature changes.
  11. Harvey Schneider

    Harvey Schneider Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    964
    Loc:
    Southbury, CT
    That would be the primary cause of fuse fatigue. Fast fuses suffer from this with short duration pulsed loads, but medium delay and slow blow shouldn't be bothered by this unless the design is right against the margins of the fuse rating.
    Of course turning on a 300W igniter for ten minutes and then turning it off for hours is not being kind to the fuse. Fuses are really low value wire resistors that melt when they get too hot. Drastically changing loads cause them to heat up and cool down. The cycle causes mechanical fatigue of the resistance wire we call a fuse.
  12. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Loc:
    South of the beloved Patriots
    Oh jeez here we go....

    Thanks Bear
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  13. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,354
    Loc:
    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403
    I am no where the electrical skills of you fast talkers big word users but everything I was taught about fuses related to pellet stoves, there is no such thing as fuse "fatigue".

    Eric
  14. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,059
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    And what would happen inside the shell of a heating device if it was repeatedly changing temperature due to temperature based t-stat calls?
    WoodPorn likes this.
  15. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,354
    Loc:
    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403
    I have been on numerous service calls over the past 7 years of working on pellet stoves and have yet to have a "worn out" or "fatigue" fuse without a problem to make the fuse fail. There is a first for everything I guess.

    Eric
    WoodPorn likes this.
  16. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Loc:
    South of the beloved Patriots
    If this is the case,then why would a fuse (time delay for instance) rated at 15a, blow out before a wire rated for the same?
    A fuse rated at 15 a is not going to blow at 15a unless it is an instantaneous.
    An instantaneous fuse rated at 15a is in place to protect a load WELL under 15a, again fatigue should not be a factor.
  17. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Loc:
    South of the beloved Patriots
    STOP IT ur killin me;)
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  18. saladdin

    saladdin Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    341
    Loc:
    West Tennessee
    That Tesla dude was one smart cookie. Doesn't get anywhere the credit he should. On a Mt. Rushmore of absolute geniuses his face would be there.
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  19. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Loc:
    South of the beloved Patriots
    I thought Edison invented electricity;lol
  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,059
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    WoodPorn,

    Folks need to be careful equating causes for fuses to blow to just too much juice through the device.

    They are subject to non power related failure modes exactly like other items.

    Any failure mode a fuse undergoes is going to eventually result in it being "blown" in the common sense view of a fuse that no longer allows current to flow through it. A better description in some cases is it is broken.
  21. SXIPro

    SXIPro Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    486
    Loc:
    Northern MA
    I thought it was amperge that killed you, not voltage.
    Also, theoretically, couldn't constant vibration cause a fuse to fail before it's time? (Basic glass fuses, I mean)
  22. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,354
    Loc:
    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403
    It is not a power surge for the household current to blow a fuse it is the stove components drawing to much amps such as an igniter grounding out (igniter failure) or a blower shorting out, am I correct?

    Eric
  23. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,074
    Loc:
    Eaton Township, Ohio
    Tesla...I know them, They toured with Alice Cooper in the 80's!!

    I think I remember a fuse blowing during the concert, not sure if it was fatigue or not!
    mepellet, WoodPorn and Delta-T like this.
  24. Delta-T

    Delta-T Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,097
    Loc:
    NH
    ...everytime a fuse blows an angel gets its wings.
    SXIPro and Eatonpcat like this.
  25. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,354
    Loc:
    Kinsman, Oh 44428 Brookfield, Oh 44403

    Oh dear I see where this is going.... Just like the internet. You can be looking up cyber schools for the kids and within three click be on a hardcore porn site. Very similar here.

    Eric
    Eatonpcat likes this.

Share This Page