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Blown fuse issues on Harman, Breckwell, Englander, or any stove.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by kinsmanstoves, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    We'll soon be talkin' about beer in tha Ash Can...My favorite topic by the way!

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  2. Delta-T

    Delta-T Minister of Fire

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    tell us more about this "internet" Eric....sounds fascinating ;)
  3. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

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    Ok class the internet is a very wicked place to be. They talk about dirty stoves, blowers, and strange things with animals, mainly pigs.

    Eric
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  4. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    Now that's funny!!;lol
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  5. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    heat seeker likes this.
  6. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

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    ^^ Has to be true if it is on the internet, correct? Bonjour.

    Eric
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  7. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    Way to get the thread back on topic Bear!!
  8. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    Crap...That's funny too...Loved that commercial the first thousand times I saw it!!
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  9. Salty

    Salty Minister of Fire

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    Make sure you always carry a fuse tester with you if you ever think a fuse is bad.
  10. imacman

    imacman Guest

    WOW...what a thread! <gets 2nd bowl of popcorn and a cold drink>

    Continue everybody
    kinsmanstoves likes this.
  11. heat seeker

    heat seeker Minister of Fire

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    I have replaced countless fuses in the shop that failed for no apparent reason other than fatigue.

    That said, here is a quote from the Bussman Fuse site:

    "Do fuses fatigue and wear out over time - requiring them to be replaced?”

    This perception is a hold over from years ago when fuses were commonly constructed using zinc
    fuse elements. Zinc has a relatively low melting temperature and a high expansion coefficient.
    Through repeated circuit energizing and de-energizing, the zinc elements would heat up and cool
    down (expand and contract) causing them to fatigue over time and lower their current carrying
    capacity.
    This is NOT the case with modern, current-limiting fuses that are made with either silver or copper
    fuse elements. These have a higher melting temperature than zinc and are not typically
    susceptible to fatiguing over time.
    Your modern, current-limiting fuses should retain their performance characteristics for the life of
    the installation under normal operating conditions and proper sizing methods for the application.
    We frequently get reports that our current-limiting fuses are still working fine forty or fifty years
    after being installed.
    There is no recommended replacement schedule for our fuses. When properly applied, they retain
    their performance characteristics until they are called upon to interrupt an overcurrent event –
    then they open and need replacing. We hope this gives you a clearer understanding of how fuses
    operate and how the old perception of fuse fatigue developed.
    If you have any questions about this information or about overcurrent protection in general, please
    contact us at:
    Phone: 636-527-1270
    Fax: 636-527-1607
    Email: fusetech@cooperindustries.com


    Having thrown my share of gasoline on this fire, I hastily withdraw...
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  12. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

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    Hmmmm sounds like post #4?

    Where's Harvey?
  13. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Hey that is a good one heat seeker,in that one you have the admission that fuse fatigue happens/happened but the claim theirs no longer has that problem..

    However that doesn't appear to hold up in various studies that have been published dealing with fuse failures.

    The other thing I haven't seen mentioned much is the case that prompts this line: A quick acting fuse will be protected by the highly expensive component it was designed to protect burning out first.

    That is to say a fuse that fails to act when it should.

    Perhaps this case can account for the loss of controllers after repeated convection blower shutdowns or failures.

    Ain't electronic/electric stuff a blast?
  14. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

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    I've seen a surge blow fuses/trip breakers
  15. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    I miss all the good stuff... Bonjour!! Love it. ;)

    Sorry. Back to fuses and chit.
  16. Harvey Schneider

    Harvey Schneider Minister of Fire

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    That's like asking OJ did you do it. Bussman is a good company and makes a good product. They cannot, however, publicly admit to a weakness that their competitors haven't admitted to. In a well designed circuit their fuses will last the life of the product. Not all products are well designed.
    Careful design can eliminate fuse fatigue, but companies are usually more interested in cost effective design. That involves compromises that result in an "acceptable" failure rate. I have seen power supply design that brings the fuse close to its failure limit on every power on cycle. The manufacturer considered it acceptable because actual failure was several years out, clearly beyond the warranty limit. What they were doing wasn't considered wrong. They were giving their customers acceptable performance at an aggressive price. In commercial product design, where production volumes are large, saving $0.10 on a design makes an Engineer a hero.
    So what does this have to do with pellet stoves? I forget.
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  17. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    I've seen breakers fail to trip and in fact there was an entire line of breakers made by Federal Pacific Electric that developed a reputation for failures, seems they didn't fully conform to certain UL test criteria, there was never a recall issued however.

    http://inspectapedia.com/fpe/CPSCsummary.htm#H1
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  18. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Unfortunately while there is a lot of crud on the Internet there are also a lot of good solid information.

    Having been an affiliate member of the IEEE (I couldn't be a full member because I wasn't an EE) I have a little more faith in that first report I provided a link to than most.

    The party who put it together is a certified reliability engineer.
  19. heat seeker

    heat seeker Minister of Fire

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    That's why I'd rather have a fuse panel than a breaker panel. Alas, I have a breaker panel with 40 breakers in it. This place is pretty over-wired, but the distribution is pretty stupid in places.
  20. boosted3g

    boosted3g Feeling the Heat

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    Federal Pacific made better welding equipment than breakers. When we had the great floods of 2011 my buddy has 6 feet of water in his basement and not a single breaker tripped. The fire department came to pump out the basement and when they saw that they wouldnt touch a thing. After the water was pumped out i was turning everything back on with a broom handle. Do you know how hard it is to start a well pump with a broom handle? not a good time

    My favorite color is blue so those are the fuses i always use.
  21. Countryboymo

    Countryboymo Feeling the Heat

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    In my opinion Edison and tesla are both very important. Edison was kind of like Henry Ford... and Tesla was kind of like Carol Shelby except impacting electricity instead of automobiles.
  22. letsblaze

    letsblaze Feeling the Heat

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    this thread just remineded me I still need to put on in my stove. :facepalm:
  23. Eatonpcat

    Eatonpcat Minister of Fire

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    People tell me that I have a short Fuse...Is the short fuse credited to Edison, Tesla or Ben Franklin (Yes I still believe the kite story! ;) )???

    Also can my short fuse be fatiguedor not??
  24. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

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    Viagra?
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  25. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

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    FPE...also known in my circle as:

    Forever
    Powered
    Electric

    Welding Equipment for sure!
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.

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