I'm back and forth. Not ready to buy but am soaking in all the info I can. I have been going back and forth between garn jr or p and m optimizer owb. From what I have read they are really close in price. For the garn I would put a small lean to to meet in an L shape with my existing lean to. The original lean holds about 6 cord and would be connected to new boiler room. Are there any other cheaper and just as good performing boilwr setups? I cannot put storage or boiler itself in the basement. I do not have access down there. How is the wood consumption of say as garn jr/indoor boiler vs a newer gasser like the p and m?
boiler headache
- Thread starter tjcole50
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
maple1
Minister of Fire
I would pick the Garn over any OWB, any day.
You might be missing a fundamental difference in them. The Garn has on-board storage (almost 1000 gallons). OWBs don't. That means you batch burn the Garn (light a fire when it cools off), but the OWB runs steady, idling/smoldering most of the time (whether it's a gasifier or not). The Garn is therefore much more efficient - but at the 'cost' of having to light a new fire every day. My old boiler had a fire in it all winter that i only had to light once in the fall, my new one I batch burn (light a new fire every day) - I wouldn't go back to the old way for anything. I now only actually have a fire burning for 6-8 hours per day. The rest of the time it is out, and I'm heating from storage.
You might be missing a fundamental difference in them. The Garn has on-board storage (almost 1000 gallons). OWBs don't. That means you batch burn the Garn (light a fire when it cools off), but the OWB runs steady, idling/smoldering most of the time (whether it's a gasifier or not). The Garn is therefore much more efficient - but at the 'cost' of having to light a new fire every day. My old boiler had a fire in it all winter that i only had to light once in the fall, my new one I batch burn (light a new fire every day) - I wouldn't go back to the old way for anything. I now only actually have a fire burning for 6-8 hours per day. The rest of the time it is out, and I'm heating from storage.
I would imagine a fire needs lit a couple times a day. I don't think that storage would be enough for 1700 sq ft plus basement and high volume of an older A-frame.. none the less still less wood for sure. I'm just guessing so I could be wrong for sure! Just seems alot to ask of one fire a day
just curious what's the firebox size of a garn jr?
just curious what's the firebox size of a garn jr?
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
TJ - It's really nothing to light 2 fires a day, especially when you're inside a nice warm shed. I use a little dry slab wood, and a propane plumbers torch. takes as long to load the [huge] firebox as it does to light it. the box is about 3ft deep, it holds 10 to a 12 large pieces of wood. Last night 8 PM I loaded up, 5F and a wind. This morning 5 AM, 2 below, I still had 142 degree water. You need one year dried wood, can't throw wet fresh cut in it, but you can burn pine, tulip, poplar too as long as it's dry. Larger than 12" rounds, I split once, 16 or so gets quartered. The door is round, 18" dia, I've put some snotty crotch pieces in that just fit, 2 hours later they were fine ash.
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
Sounds good. Keep on mind of prevailing winds and smoke drift.I will say the Garn does roll some smoke at first and then some condensate at first.
Plus figure a Garn Jr will be a solid 10k in weight.
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
It would be quite easy to get a good estimate of how long storage would last if you have a Heat loss calculation for your house. I would guess many days 1 fire would do it.
Have you consider a garn 1500? For the increase in price you gain a lot with the 500 gallons of additional storage.
gg
What size is your firebox? Seems most owb even older style load twice a day as well....
maple1
Minister of Fire
I did build a shelter for my P&M two years ago,not that I needed to but more for
me. Glad I did second year and nice to be out of weather when filling and some
wood storage open one side so I do get wind at times. You do need to do some cleaning about every two weeks but well worth the work. I think they have a better
boiler now but have not checked as I am well satisfied with the 250.
me. Glad I did second year and nice to be out of weather when filling and some
wood storage open one side so I do get wind at times. You do need to do some cleaning about every two weeks but well worth the work. I think they have a better
boiler now but have not checked as I am well satisfied with the 250.
So much want and not enough $$$ haha. I have a very small backyard which butts up to the woods our house sits on the back corner of our 2 acres. I would put the p and m in the back corner and build 2 wood storages on each side creating an L shape in the back corner. One side would also be a privacy fence. I love trying to incorporate wood storage as a privacy fence! Neighbors are about 250+ feet away but I still like to box the back yard in like that. My seasoning wood is on the other side and rotate when wood is good to go. They have an optimizer and ultimizer I believe one is gasser the other isnt. I would for sure go gasser even with the higher price. Friend of mine has a central boilwr and I'm suprised he only fills it 1/2 way and gets 12 hour burns. Is the pandm similar in that regard?
That would steer me to the Garn as storage is included. The only minus I see with the Garn is it's not pressurized but I assume that's the case with the PandM also.
As long as you load the system with water that isn't high in mineral content and neutral PH you shouldn't have any issues with water chemistry. In an open (unpressurized) boiler you need to annually monitor chemistry and add chemicals as needed to maintain proper balance. Not a deal breaker but something to consider.
I personally like the Garn but couldn't justify the cost and space required. Have you considered entry level gassers like the eko? I am happy with mine.
Last edited:
The Garn Jr is 980 gallons so yes, more storage than 500. Conventional gassers vary in output 85kbtu through 500kbtu, storage is the tank(s) volume you install. Garn output is 180 to 700kbtu.
Dimension wise, Garn is 1 unit, gassers require a separate tank. This can be a plus or minus depending where it is placed.
Forgot to mention: pressurized boilers don't require a heat exchanger.
Dimension wise, Garn is 1 unit, gassers require a separate tank. This can be a plus or minus depending where it is placed.
Forgot to mention: pressurized boilers don't require a heat exchanger.
Last edited:
I would say the garn probably has a smaller over all foot print if you consider clearances, piping, tank, expansion tank.
One thing that has been proven with the Garn is longevity. Most other units that is yet to be determined. Talk to Heaterman bout the age of some of the Garns he has seen.
gg
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
tjcole,
Learn all you can here. Good group. Also, come spring look over craigslist and other classifieds. Some people are switching to pellets or heat pumps. Basically getting away from cord wood. You can find some 6 or 8 yr old boilers at sm attractive price.
Learn all you can here. Good group. Also, come spring look over craigslist and other classifieds. Some people are switching to pellets or heat pumps. Basically getting away from cord wood. You can find some 6 or 8 yr old boilers at sm attractive price.
Forgot to mention: pressurized boilers don't require a heat exchanger.[/quote]
Unpressurized units as well don't need to be hooked up to a HX. Can be hooked
directly to oil boiler without a HX.
Unpressurized units as well don't need to be hooked up to a HX. Can be hooked
directly to oil boiler without a HX.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Don't think that's considered good practice - would be putting fresh oxygen to your whole heating system? And the circ pumps in the heating system require a certain psi for good operation.
- Status
Similar threads
