Boiler system install: Components checklist/do's and don'ts/advice & suggestions. Would appreciate y

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Gasifier

Minister of Fire
Apr 25, 2011
3,211
St. Lawrence River Valley, N.Y.
Hopefully this will help people save some time and headaches during their installs. Any suggestions as to a good format? I would appreciate anyone’s help with this.

Any improvement to the insulation of your building(s), storage tank(s) and piping will help you conserve energy/fuel/time/labor, and your money. A good investment!

Before you decide on boiler size, it is recommended that you complete a heat loss calculation on your building(s) to establish required BTUs.

The only foolish question is the one that is not asked. Ask them all in the boiler room at Hearth.com. Great bunch of people here.

Component checklist.
1. Shut off valves on each side of all components for isolation purposes if needed.
2. Return boiler protection valve.
3. Air purging equipment for pressurized system.
4. Seperate, building code approved, chimneys for each heating appliance.
5. Properly sized expansion tank(s).
6. Pressure relief valve(s).
7. Purge valve(s).
8. Circulation pump(s), correctly sized.

Do’s and don’ts.

1. Do check and build to meet or exceed local/state building code.
2. Do check with insurance company about requirements/cost etc.
3. Do correctly orient your circulator pump and bypass valve (boiler protection valve).
4. Do run pipes level if piping storage tanks in parralel if you want even flow.

1. Don’t weld cast fittings.
2. Don’t place closly spaced tee’s too close to an elbow.
3. Don’t reduce pipe size from boiler too much. This can result in inadequate heat movement.


Advice / suggestions.
Run pipes to the high points with vents with a slight grade to the high points. Use proper filling and purging process of boiler and storage.

Install Low point drains. Its real easy to pipe things up and then have no easy way to drain any low loops. They dont have to be full size with ball valve, the fittings set up for key coin vents take a standard 1/8†NPT plugs, either that or there are couplings and tees sold with drain caps.

If using black iron DIY, make certain that your threader is equipped with sharp and adjusted dies.

Buy a small supply of close and short nipples of the chosen diameter. Use Megalok and Monster tape on all fittings.
If piping with copper, use the bernzomatic TS 4000 with Map/Pro gas or similar. Plumb your directional fitting in the correct orientation.

Think about the routing of your smoke pipe. Meet building code required clearances. Add heat shields for added safety. Keep in mind it might need to come apart again for cleaning in the future.

Get dry wood. Burn dry wood. Get at least one year ahead on your supply. Two years is better. Then stay ahead.

Discuss your end result with your installer. They need to understand how YOU want your system. Otherwise you may get an undesirable result.

Locktite 55 thread sealing cord is really really useful when dealing with European to US fittings.

Think about it before doing it. Setup your piping to use a common purge point (single boiler drain). Keep it neat, easier to figure out what’s going on.

Buy your black iron fittings where the pros go. I spent time swapping out porous Chinese ells, tees, unions. Pros can’t afford to redo like I did.

Please post a reply with any suggestions you have. Thank you.
 
Thats a good idea Gasi. Not only a list of components . but also a list of things not to do. like installing danfoss backwards ,welding cast fittings, placing closly spaced tee's to close to an elbow . those are just few mistakes that I have done that come to mind. Things that will save newbs like me some time.

Huff
 
Yep. I here you on that Huff. I have also seen a couple of things that I might have done different. Unfortunately after my install was done. Along with the checklist it may be a good idea to have a brief description of each component and what it does.
 
:lol:

Okay. Let's get building this thing. No, two things. I don't know the best way to do this, but here goes. Please add on.

Real list of recommendations.

It is always recommended that you complete a heat loss calculation on your building(s) to establish required BTUs.
1. Shut off valves on each side of major components for isolation if needed.
2. Return boiler protection valve.


Comedy list of recommendations. (Why do I think this list is going to be longer?) :lol:

1. Clean up the beer cans.
 
Real list of recommendations.

It is always recommended that you complete a heat loss calculation on your building(s) to establish required BTUs.
1. Shut off valves on each side of major components for isolation if needed.
2. Return boiler protection valve.
3. Proper air purging equipment for pressurized system.
4. Proper chimney for new and old appliance.


Comedy list of recommendations. (Why do I think this list is going to be longer?) :lol:

1. Clean up the beer cans.
2. Incorporate man cave into boiler room.
3. Devise plan to convince significant other you are going to "save" money. A plan that will allow you to purchase other tools that are "necessary" for wood burning. Examples, chainsaw(s), wood fetcher(4wheeler, tractor, truck, UTV, trailer, etc.), build nice shed or garage or remodel part of existing garage, basement.

Please post your recommendations and I will add them in.
 
1 Corect orentation of circulator
2 Run pipes level ( especially if your plumbing storage tanks in parralel and want even flow )
3 Don't weld cast fittings

Don't ask how I learned any of these things. :red:
 
The list will now stay at the top, or original post. Please post a reply with your suggestions. Thanks.
 
I ran pipes to the high points with vents with a slight grade to the high points. Better get that verified by a professional might be a mistake . Also some sort of guideline for filling and purging boiler and storage. Then incorporating expansion tanks.
 
huffdawg said:
I ran pipes to the high points with vents with a slight grade to the high points. Better get that verified by a professional might be a mistake . Also some sort of guideline for filling and purging boiler and storage. Then incorporating expansion tanks.

Agreed. This is where I am hoping some of the more experienced people will chime in. And hopefully we can get those more experienced people to agree and say keep that, or say get rid of that. And guide this checklist for us. I was hoping we could keep updating and get the most important things into the list. Everyones system will be slightly different. I started this as a checklist for components that are needed so new guys installing could make sure they have everything. Then I started getting suggestions or do's and don'ts. Which is fine by me, lets have do's and don'ts in addition to the basic components every system should have. Hoping some of you guys who have done a lot of installs and have a lot of knowledge can help out. Could be very helpful to less experienced people.
 
Install Low point drains. Its real easy to pipe things up and then have no easy way to drain any low loops. They dont have to be full size with ball valve, the fittings set up for key coin vents take a standard 1/8" NPT plugs, either that or there are couplings and tees sold with drain caps.
 
Here are some to add to the growing list:
If using black iron DIY, make certain that your threader is equipped with sharp and adjusted dies.
Buy a small supply of close and short nipples of the chosen diameter.
Use Megalok and Monster tape on all fittings.
If piping with copper, use the bernzomatic TS 4000 with Map/Pro gas or similar.
Plumb your directional fittings in the correct orientation.

These are kinda simple, but essential in saving time and frustration.
 
The list will now stay at the top, or original post. Please post a reply with your suggestions. Thanks.
 
mikefrommaine said:
^^^

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Special:Uploads
When complete you could put your list into a hearth wiki

Thanks for the info Mike. It looks like it will be a while before we finish. :lol: I think there is probably a lot that could be added, especially in the advice/suggestions category. I have never checked out any of the wikis. Is there a lot of them? Where?
 
The list will now stay at the top, or original post. Please post a reply with your suggestions. Please continue to check on the original post (o.p.) for errors/mistakes and let me know so I can continue to improve this. Thank you, I appreciate it.
 
I have a couple that could go on there...

- Think about the routing of your smoke pipe. Get the necessary fittings/elbows/clamp bands ahead of time. Watch your clearances to combustibles. Add heat shields where needed. Keep in mind it might need to come apart again for cleaning in the future.
- Get dry wood. Even if you burned a wood stove, or "have done this for years" or "my wood is dry". No its not, at least not as dry as you really wish it was for running your new gasifier the best way. I think every person who gets one of these fumbles a little the first year. Im no exception.
- General advice. Its going to cost more than you planned on by the time you are done, if you want it done right.
- Add more insulation. Doesnt matter what it is, add more of it.
- Discuss your end result with your installer. You need to understand what YOU want your system to do well enough to explain it to someone else that hasnt been on Hearth.com for the past six months reading about it. Otherwise you may end up with an undesirable result.
- When in doubt, add a purge valve.
- Locktite 55 thread sealing cord is really really useful when dealing with European to US fittings.

Feel free to edit the tongue in cheek portions as you feel are prudent :)
 
The list will now stay at the top, or original post. Please post a reply with your suggestions. Thank you for contributing your ideas.

I am shortening some of the advice & suggestions up a bit if they are covered by following building codes or other suggestions.
 
Use common sense, always. Stop and think about before doing it.

Setup your piping to use a common purge point (single boiler drain).
I hate moving the hose to purge the next zone, it's not necessary.

Keep it neat, easier to figure out what's going on.
 

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Buy your black iron fittings where the pros go. I spent so much time swapping out porous Chinese ells, tees, unions. Pros can't afford to redo like I did.
 
Tennman said:
Buy your black iron fittings where the pros go. I spent so much time swapping out porous Chinese ells, tees, unions. Pros can't afford to redo like I did.

Good point and I completely agree. Even some of the local pro stores were selling foreign black iron fittings. After I had plumbed everything up and checked with air, I knew I had a slow leak, but couldn't find it. Checked all connections with soapy water and still none. I found it when filled with water though and it was a pinhole right through a cast black iron and foreign el. And in one of the worst places to replace. After that I only bought Ward fittings made in the good ol' USA.
 
Tennman said:
Buy your black iron fittings where the pros go. I spent so much time swapping out porous Chinese ells, tees, unions. Pros can't afford to redo like I did.

Good point and I completely agree. Even some of the local pro stores were selling foreign black iron fittings. After I had plumbed everything up and checked with air, I knew I had a slow leak, but couldn't find it. Checked all connections with soapy water and still none. I found it when filled with water though and it was a pinhole right through a cast black iron and foreign el. And in one of the worst places to replace. After that I only bought Ward fittings made in the good ol' USA.
 
Tennman said:
Buy your black iron fittings where the pros go. I spent so much time swapping out porous Chinese ells, tees, unions. Pros can't afford to redo like I did.

Good point and I completely agree. Even some of the local pro stores were selling foreign black iron fittings. After I had plumbed everything up and checked with air, I knew I had a slow leak, but couldn't find it. Checked all connections with soapy water and still none. I found it when filled with water though and it was a pinhole right through a cast black iron and foreign el. And in one of the worst places to replace. After that I only bought Ward fittings made in the good ol' USA.
 
Okay Smoke. I got it man. :lol:
 
J.B. Ward fitting are all we use, they don't have pin holes in the fittings, and more importantly they are threaded square to the fitting, unlike the asian made units that are rarely true tee's and 90's. Never use Megalok pipe dope in any application , it has the highest failure rate, it truely has to be the worst pipe dope on the market. Gasoila , gimmie the green stuff- or white version, any teflon tape will do on brass and copper joints, steel threads are not recommended for tape unless you use both tape and dope. If your not doing the work yourself, make sure whom ever you hire has plenty of references and experience working on boilers, most failures and problems are a direct result of unqualified installers. Follow all manufacturer's recommended installation instructions exactly, especially if you want to have a valid warranty. When you spend this kind of money, your supplier should also include an approved system design, any reputable sales agent here does for free. This covers you on the flip side. Make sure the products your investing so much money in are atleast ASTM,ASME,UL approved and rated for your application. There is plenty of info below to answer most hydronic questions correctly, don't always rely on internet forums for accurate info/opinions. Good Luck

http://flopro.taco-hvac.com/flopro_u.html Flo pro university, many short videos on everything hydronic related
http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf
http://www.lochinvar.com/_linefiles/BT-03.pdf
http://www.lochinvar.com/_linefiles/INS70069 Rev C.pdf
http://comfort-calc.net/tech_area_index.htm#HWB
 
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