I just had an 1800 Osburn wood insert installed in my home.(1600 sq ft./ 2nd story high ceilings, Mt Hood Oregon) I was hoping/told that I could heat my whole house with this. I'm not really seeing that. I don't know if its operator error or the installers just wanted me to buy whatever I could fit in my zero clearance fireplace. I now realize I should have been on this sight researching way before this point. Any advice? Is the model decent? It seems to put a lot of smoke in my house whenever I open the door to add wood. I don't know whats normal but we get a covering of ash on everthing daily. And thick smoke in the house when opening the door to move logs/add wood trying to get the fire going.
Brand new here- need help!
- Thread starter JoTy
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bruce56bb
Feeling the Heat
GVA
Minister of Fire
Not an expert
just prepare to be answering these questions
Was it fully lined is there a blockoff plate installed.
It's an insert Does it have a blower.
are you burning seasoned wood.
There's more but I'll let the real experts take this
WELCOME to the forum
just prepare to be answering these questions
Was it fully lined is there a blockoff plate installed.
It's an insert Does it have a blower.
are you burning seasoned wood.
There's more but I'll let the real experts take this
WELCOME to the forum
I'll try to answer the questions. It has a blower and its on most of the time because we keep the fire going. I saw them install a metal looking tube all the way threw the chimney. I guess thats the liner? They had trouble doing it because they said there was a curve in the chimney. The house is about 12 years old. I don't know what a block off plate is. I bought about 3 cords of wood locally. Its fully dry. I don't really know what seasoned wood is. Wow I'm so in over my head here.
Welcome JoTy. Mt Hood - serious snow recently. I'm in Newberg. This is my first woodburning season so I'm no expert. I'd suggest you get real familiar with everything about your stove, chimney/flue, wood etc. The search function on this sight can help you a lot. The more you know the better. I discovered, at the beginning of my stove odyssey, that draft is VERY IMPORTANT. I didn't know that. If you have an owners manual look and see how many feet they recommend from stove to top of flue. My stove dealer recommended - and I added 4 feet when the liner was installed. I was right at the minimum recommended length. Don't know how it would have drafted without that extension, but it drafts great with it. If your draft is ok then begin looking at other things. Try the dollar bill test - search that term if not sure what it means. I cut wood this summer and am able to us some of it - but most of it is in the woodshed for a year of drying. I bought a cord of well seasoned very dry oak(got it from a friend so I know it's the real deal. At least I have one good cord this year. If you like being a bit of a detective - you'll love leaning to use a wood stove. You can learn a lot by looking at the Information section on this site also. Good luck and keep us posted.
MrGriz
New Member
Welcome to hearth.com JoTy. I have the big brother to your insert in the basement of my 1800 sq ft tri level. It does a great job of heating the basement and main level of the house; it also does a fair job of heating the hall to the upper level with the bedrooms. I don't get much heat transfer into the bedrooms themselves, but I like it that way for sleeping (i'm sure a well placed fan or two to blow cold air out of the bedrooms would help).
Let's start with a few more questions about your set-up. The metal looking tube you saw them install was a stainless steel chimney liner; which is good, you want it lined. Do you know if they lined it all the way to the top of the chimney? Is the chimney on an exterior wall of the house or is it interior? Approximately how tall is the chimney from the insert to the top of the chimney? Do you know if the liner was wrapped with any insulation, or just bare metal all the way up?
When you open the door to load wood or stir coals, you need to do it slowly or you will pull smoke into the house. Start by un-latching the door and cracking it just slightly (not even far enough for the latch to clear the tab it hooks on). Pause with the door cracked for a few seconds before slowly opening the door the rest of the way. That will promote a strong draft of air from the room and pull the smoke up the chimney rather than into the house. Another cause could be a negative pressure situation in the room the stove is located in. If the above procedure does not work for opening the door, try doing the same with a window near the fireplace open. When you do have a fire going does it burn well?
Dry wood. If you bought wood this year and are assuming it's dry because the person you bought it from told you it was, you are taking a big leap of faith. Most firewood dealers sell "seasoned" wood that is anything but properly seasoned and ready to burn very well. Firewood should be seasoned or dried to a moisture content around 20%. The only way to know for sure is to test it with a moisture meeter. There are some less technical clues to look for as well. Are the ends of the splits cracked? When you clunk two pieces together does it make a dull thud or a more sharp sound? Also, do you know what type of wood you bought?
You may feel in over your head now, but you made at least two great choices so far: you bought an Osburn and you're here! Hopefully Warren will chime in here soon. He has the same insert you do, in a zero clearance fireplace and has very good things to say about his. Keep the questions coming.
Let's start with a few more questions about your set-up. The metal looking tube you saw them install was a stainless steel chimney liner; which is good, you want it lined. Do you know if they lined it all the way to the top of the chimney? Is the chimney on an exterior wall of the house or is it interior? Approximately how tall is the chimney from the insert to the top of the chimney? Do you know if the liner was wrapped with any insulation, or just bare metal all the way up?
When you open the door to load wood or stir coals, you need to do it slowly or you will pull smoke into the house. Start by un-latching the door and cracking it just slightly (not even far enough for the latch to clear the tab it hooks on). Pause with the door cracked for a few seconds before slowly opening the door the rest of the way. That will promote a strong draft of air from the room and pull the smoke up the chimney rather than into the house. Another cause could be a negative pressure situation in the room the stove is located in. If the above procedure does not work for opening the door, try doing the same with a window near the fireplace open. When you do have a fire going does it burn well?
Dry wood. If you bought wood this year and are assuming it's dry because the person you bought it from told you it was, you are taking a big leap of faith. Most firewood dealers sell "seasoned" wood that is anything but properly seasoned and ready to burn very well. Firewood should be seasoned or dried to a moisture content around 20%. The only way to know for sure is to test it with a moisture meeter. There are some less technical clues to look for as well. Are the ends of the splits cracked? When you clunk two pieces together does it make a dull thud or a more sharp sound? Also, do you know what type of wood you bought?
You may feel in over your head now, but you made at least two great choices so far: you bought an Osburn and you're here! Hopefully Warren will chime in here soon. He has the same insert you do, in a zero clearance fireplace and has very good things to say about his. Keep the questions coming.
Ok, that makes sense about opening the door slowly, I'll try that. I really don't know anything about the wood I bought. I had no idea it was suppose to be cut down years before use. The liner in the chimney did go all the way thru. It was really long but I don't know the measurement. Its a 2 story house and it goes from the fireplace on the first floor up to the roof. Its on an exterior wall on the house. I don't think there was any insulations around it.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
JoTy said:
This may seem obvious, but I am going to point it out anyway. Before you open the door to the stove, are you opening the intake air all the way? This is a must. I am not familiar with the Osburns, it may have 2 levers or 1. Make sure you have the intake air wide open before you open the door, crack the door ever slightly and it will flame up some, now as said, open door slowly. If it has a rear dampner built into the stove like the Avalons do, you must open that all the way also. You want a good air flow going when door is open, which promotes a good draft. If you have the air closed, then it will smoke you out as you are cutting down on the draft. 2 story of chimney is plenty. There should be no draft issue due to length of chimney. Only other thing I can think of is, make sure you have top plate on chimney and block off plate down at the fireplace below the damper area. Hopefully if it was real tough to get the liner through, they didn't punture it or tear a hole in it. But thats not a usual occurrence.
If you aren't opening the air before opening the door, thats is your problem. Not trying to make you feel dumb, just trying to rule out obvious problems.
WILDSOURDOUGH
New Member
Welcome...
Just a short note on 'DRAFT'. To get a good draft, the tempature differential of the outside air and the chimney must be large- meaning that if it is only 'cool' outside and the chimney is also 'cool', you don't have a very large differential= poor draft. As you heat up the chimney and the air outside gets colder, you will have a greater differential, better draft. The key is the diffferential, more differential in temps= more (stronger) draft. This is why it is harder to get a strong draft in the shoulder seasons (spring and fall), than in the colder months of winter (as long as your chimney is warmer.
It is not so much your fault reguarding the stove purchase... without complete information on your burning habits, location of the stove, home size and layout... and such, the salesperson will sell you the stove they think you show the most intrest in (or that your other half is intersted in). I am sure that it is a fine stove- and you will learn much...expecially if you frequent this site.
The high ceilings will be a bit of a problem unless you can get a fan up there to move the heat back down where you need it.
That's my four cents worth... Best to you.
Just a short note on 'DRAFT'. To get a good draft, the tempature differential of the outside air and the chimney must be large- meaning that if it is only 'cool' outside and the chimney is also 'cool', you don't have a very large differential= poor draft. As you heat up the chimney and the air outside gets colder, you will have a greater differential, better draft. The key is the diffferential, more differential in temps= more (stronger) draft. This is why it is harder to get a strong draft in the shoulder seasons (spring and fall), than in the colder months of winter (as long as your chimney is warmer.
It is not so much your fault reguarding the stove purchase... without complete information on your burning habits, location of the stove, home size and layout... and such, the salesperson will sell you the stove they think you show the most intrest in (or that your other half is intersted in). I am sure that it is a fine stove- and you will learn much...expecially if you frequent this site.
The high ceilings will be a bit of a problem unless you can get a fan up there to move the heat back down where you need it.
That's my four cents worth... Best to you.
WILDSOURDOUGH
New Member
O...one more thing that might help...
(along with all the good advice like wood selection, opening the doors slowly- all that good stuff above)
Remember to use lots of kindling when you start your fires, get it good and hot- this heats the chimney up (differential) and you are not allowing the splits/logs to just sit there and 'smolder'- get those logs/splits going, then you can 'turn it down' after.
(along with all the good advice like wood selection, opening the doors slowly- all that good stuff above)
Remember to use lots of kindling when you start your fires, get it good and hot- this heats the chimney up (differential) and you are not allowing the splits/logs to just sit there and 'smolder'- get those logs/splits going, then you can 'turn it down' after.
intake air? is that the same as the draft control lever? I have that all the way opend. When I open the door it doesn't flame up.
is that a bad sign?
is that a bad sign?
MrGriz
New Member
The knob on the lower right side of the face plate controls the combustion air intake. That is the air that is drawn from the room to fuel the fire. When you open the door of your insert, there is a flat "ledge" that goes across the bottom of the door opening. In the center of the ledge is a bump. If you feel behind and below that bump (when the stove is good and cool) there is an opening which lets air into the firebox. When you slide the knob to the right, you are opening a plate under that opening to let air into the firebox, which fuels the fire.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Your sure its opened and not closed?JoTy said:
When you open the door with an established fire, it should get more intense. Unless its in coals stage. Even then, the coals would glow brighter and hotter.
If this is not happening, you have some kind of draft issue, just not sure how with a 2 story chimney. Are you positive the liner goes all the way from stove top to chimney top? Did they use 6" liner or whatever the stove calls for?
Ok per the manual, all the way right is fully open, all the way left is closed.
MrGriz
New Member
That stove does call for a 6" liner.
knob should be all the way to the right to open the air intake or all the way to the left to shut the air down.
knob should be all the way to the right to open the air intake or all the way to the left to shut the air down.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
I just cant imagine how a 2 story liner has a draft problem. At least not caused by the liner itself.
stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
house is only 12 years old, im thinking negative pressure, also the unit is on the lower floor , probably below the zero pressure line in the house, little response from the draft control, slow starting , all are signs of negative pressure
joty, try cracking open a window in close proximity to the stove about 5-10 minutes before starting the unit, see if the unit pulls better and lights more readily. if it does better , and doesnt smoke back at you , the problem is "negative pressure"
negative pressure occurs when a house does not allow air into the structure as fast as devices such as chimneys , bathroom vents , range hoods and clothes dryers (to name a few) remove air. this causes the house to develop a lower air pressure inside in relation to outside (kind of a mild vacuum effect) opening a window or door to outside releaves this vacuum buildup allowing the house to then release air readily. newer houses are built specifically to hold heat in, in doing so they make life harder on the chimney , which wants to draw, but is impeded by the house simply not wanting to let the air out as replacement air is not leaking in.
if this test fire with the window open does show a better performance in the fire and reduced "smokeback" when the stove is reloaded, an outside air intake (or OAK kit) would go a long way toward solving your problem (assuming the unit can accept one, and that it can be installed readily into the current installation) if not , the other solution may be to install a free air vent such as this one http://www.condar.com/asv.html this by the way is a great site for info about tight houses, a good read.
i hope you find this helpful , and i would be happy to discuss this issue with you here if you wish to question me about it further
joty, try cracking open a window in close proximity to the stove about 5-10 minutes before starting the unit, see if the unit pulls better and lights more readily. if it does better , and doesnt smoke back at you , the problem is "negative pressure"
negative pressure occurs when a house does not allow air into the structure as fast as devices such as chimneys , bathroom vents , range hoods and clothes dryers (to name a few) remove air. this causes the house to develop a lower air pressure inside in relation to outside (kind of a mild vacuum effect) opening a window or door to outside releaves this vacuum buildup allowing the house to then release air readily. newer houses are built specifically to hold heat in, in doing so they make life harder on the chimney , which wants to draw, but is impeded by the house simply not wanting to let the air out as replacement air is not leaking in.
if this test fire with the window open does show a better performance in the fire and reduced "smokeback" when the stove is reloaded, an outside air intake (or OAK kit) would go a long way toward solving your problem (assuming the unit can accept one, and that it can be installed readily into the current installation) if not , the other solution may be to install a free air vent such as this one http://www.condar.com/asv.html this by the way is a great site for info about tight houses, a good read.
i hope you find this helpful , and i would be happy to discuss this issue with you here if you wish to question me about it further
If the liner got badly ovalized, it may draft poorly. If it is not insulated it may draft poorly until the stove and flue are thoroughly warmed up. If the liner is poorly connected to the stove (air leaks) it may affect draft. And if the wood is not dry, all bets are off.
JoTy, do you know if they connected an outside air kit to the stove? Given that this is a 12 yr old house, I like to give the installer the benefit of the doubt. The first thing to try is opening a nearby window a couple inches before opening the stove door. Open the door about 1" and wait until there is a good flame before opening it wider. If that improves things we have a negative pressure issue that can be solved.
JoTy, do you know if they connected an outside air kit to the stove? Given that this is a 12 yr old house, I like to give the installer the benefit of the doubt. The first thing to try is opening a nearby window a couple inches before opening the stove door. Open the door about 1" and wait until there is a good flame before opening it wider. If that improves things we have a negative pressure issue that can be solved.
stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
JoTy said:
probably wouldnt hurt , at least that wouldnt add to the air moving out away from the stove.
try cracking that window as Begreen suggested, a few minutes before cracking the door , this will equalize pressure in house and probably help the flue pull the smoke out instead of having it drawn into the home
MrGriz
New Member
It could be operator error in getting used to the new stove, but the Osburn is pretty simple to operate. I think there is something working against the operation of the stove; most likely poor draft or negative pressure.
I agree that two stories of chimney should pull pretty well. I've got about 23' of 6" uninsulated liner in an exterior chimney and it drafts like crazy. Like Mike and I said, try opening a window; that should help.
Edit: Dang, I type slow and you guys are on top of things!
I agree that two stories of chimney should pull pretty well. I've got about 23' of 6" uninsulated liner in an exterior chimney and it drafts like crazy. Like Mike and I said, try opening a window; that should help.
Edit: Dang, I type slow and you guys are on top of things!
MrGriz
New Member
AFAIK, there's no OAK provision for the 1800i.
I usually let the blower run on mine while I re-load and it doesn't seem to have a negative effect.
I usually let the blower run on mine while I re-load and it doesn't seem to have a negative effect.
Thanks I guess its a negative pressure problem because I cracked the door to the outside before I just reloaded and there was pretty much no smoke.
part of negative pressure is leakage areas of positive pressure above it the usual suspects are attic pull down stairs of attic accesses they should be weather stripped and insulated
by eliminating the positive pressure leaks it reduces the negative pressure
by eliminating the positive pressure leaks it reduces the negative pressure
Stove Geek
Member
One more thing to look at and it is a common mistake when installing an insert. The liner inside the chimney has to exceed the top of the chimney by 12 to 18 inches. It does not look the prettiest, but it sure changes the dynamic of the draft.
The second thing to try is with regards to either negative pressure or an airtight house. Open a window nearby the insert and see if it makes a difference...
The second thing to try is with regards to either negative pressure or an airtight house. Open a window nearby the insert and see if it makes a difference...
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