Breaking the "rules"

[soupy1957]

Back a couple of years ago, when our wood burning stove was first installed here, I had been asking all kinds of questions in here, and reading as much as I could, and looking at instructional videos.

I understand the "logic" of doing the following, ......but I'm wondering if I'm NOT the only one who has found this particular "rule" to be not necessarily required.........

Most of the instruction I had received about "adding a new split or two to an existing hot fire" was that you should open the damper all the way, before adding the new wood, and then dial it back after the wood was fully involved.

Sometimes, I cheat............and leave the damper in the "sweet spot" of an established fire, and just set the new splits in the box, without adjusting the damper. The new splits seem to light easily, and the fire balances out fairly quickly.

I know "fully opening the damper" is not a hard-n-fast rule, but...........anyone else find that you can add splits without having to re-set the sweet spot by opening and re-adjusting the damper?

-Soupy1957

 

[JV_Thimble]

Interesting question - does it apply to all stoves, or only to newer ones? When I'm burning in a 1977 VC Vigilant, I just add wood as needed, and don't mess with the draft unless required...

 

[soupy1957]

I guess I'm making the assumption that old stoves, new stoves...........they all have some way of cutting back the air, ..........flue pipe dampers, stove dampers........

-Soupy1957

 

[fjord]

Call it the "Singed Eyebrow syndrome: backdraft.

Fire seeks O2. When a stove is oxygen starved with low air and/or reburn/damper shut, suddenly opening a door can create a 'fire blast' out the opening.

Fire fighters are always aware of this in house fire's "backdraft"; dangerous for them.

The only 'rule' for me since I've had a fire burst redoing my eyebrows, is to open the recirculating/cat/flue damper, and open the primary air BEFORE opening a loading door.
It's all part of the wood burning learning curve.

 

[Pagey]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

 

[fjord]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

Why ?

 

[begreen]

This thread confused me because of terminology. Soup, are you referring to the air control? A damper is on the output side of the stove, the flue typically, or on the stove itself. The input side is the air control.

 

[MarkinNC]

Limited experience in first year but, with a "hot fire box," I leave the air control in the sweet spot. I do open the by pass damper then crack the door. Cracking the door provides all the 02 needed. I keep the door cracked for a minute until the wood catches on fire, close the door and bypass.

 

[oldspark]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

Why ?

+1

 

[soupy1957]

Yes........"air control"

-Soupy1957

 

[begreen]

Most of the instruction I had received about "adding a new split or two to an existing hot fire" was that you should open the damper all the way, before adding the new wood, and then dial it back after the wood was fully involved.

Sometimes, I cheat............and leave the damper in the "sweet spot" of an established fire, and just set the new splits in the box, without adjusting the damper. The new splits seem to light easily, and the fire balances out fairly quickly.

I know "fully opening the damper" is not a hard-n-fast rule, but...........anyone else find that you can add splits without having to re-set the sweet spot by opening and re-adjusting the damper?

-Soupy1957

There are no hard and fixed rules here, except those pertaining toward being safe. By placing splits on an existing hot fire a general rule has already been broken. Most of us don't do that. The rules generally passed on here are to achieve maximum heating efficiency not maximum flame.

 

[LLigetfa]

Some rules were meant to be broken. Wood burning defies many hard and fast rules. The "sweet spot" for me is a moving target. I go by the rule of "do what works for your particular situation".

 

[Pagey]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

Why ?

If I already have a well established fire, and the stove has reached "cruising temp," I can simply lay on another split and not have to touch the primary at all. Within about 3 minutes things will be right back at "optimum". I've made the mistake of opening the bypass damper and primary air to full when doing this, and it will quickly let the stove hit 800F. Now, on the very rare occasion that I decide to add a fresh split to a "cruising" mode fire, I simply add the split and leave the primary in its sweet spot.

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't know where you came up with this "rule". I have never seen anybody say you had to open the primary air all the way just to add a split or two to an established fire. Just in starting from coals or cold.

 

[fjord]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

Why ?

If I already have a well established fire, and the stove has reached "cruising temp," I can simply lay on another split and not have to touch the primary at all. Within about 3 minutes things will be right back at "optimum". I've made the mistake of opening the bypass damper and primary air to full when doing this, and it will quickly let the stove hit 800F. Now, on the very rare occasion that I decide to add a fresh split to a "cruising" mode fire, I simply add the split and leave the primary in its sweet spot.

If it works...fine. BUTT Pagey--it depends on:

The particular stove engineering and design. No two stoves are the same.

The species and seasoning of the fuel. IF you use wood for full time heating, 24/7, +/- 100%, things vary....a lot.

Your heating needs and region. Northern New England, Wyoming and Michigan are definately NOT Tennessee.

The user's experience with wood heating and the stoves, furnaces, OWB, Masonry Fireplaces. One stove, one year, buying CSD, and using the wood for heating up from 65 F ain't experience.

And, if you do heat with wood, attention to the stove and a new fill are critical.

"Sweet spot" sounds kinda raunchy.....how do we find it ? :lol:

 

[LLigetfa]

My stove has an OAK and depending on atmospheric pressure, draft, negative pressure, etc., opening the stove door can actually cause outside air from the OAK to push into the room so closing the air is sometimes called for. I also modified my stove by adding a primary air control that takes room air which I adjust more often than the OAK air. I have no flue damper.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

We never add wood to an existing fire. We wait for the cycle to complete itself. Exception? Yes. Perhaps something unexpected comes up and you have to leave the house for an extended period. Then by all means, put some more wood in, but you don't have to like doing it that way.

You do not "have to" open the draft first. However, it is a good idea.

The reason for this is that by opening the draft full, and waiting a minute or two before opening the firebox door, is to establish the best draft in the chimney. Then you open the firebox door slowly. By creating the habit of doing this every time you open that door, you will not have smoke in the house nor will you have any singed eyebrows.

If those new splits take off immediately, it doesn't matter. If you are adding wood, you should have only coals in the stove when doing so. This means you should leave the draft fully open. For how long? Our rule of thumb is wait until the wood is charred and then back off on the draft. But, Soupy was indicating he puts the wood in before the previous wood has fully burned and that is not the best way to burn efficiently.

 

[Pagey]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

Why ?

If I already have a well established fire, and the stove has reached "cruising temp," I can simply lay on another split and not have to touch the primary at all. Within about 3 minutes things will be right back at "optimum". I've made the mistake of opening the bypass damper and primary air to full when doing this, and it will quickly let the stove hit 800F. Now, on the very rare occasion that I decide to add a fresh split to a "cruising" mode fire, I simply add the split and leave the primary in its sweet spot.

If it works...fine. BUTT Pagey--it depends on:

The particular stove engineering and design. No two stoves are the same.

The species and seasoning of the fuel. IF you use wood for full time heating, 24/7, +/- 100%, things vary....a lot.

Your heating needs and region. Northern New England, Wyoming and Michigan are definately NOT Tennessee.

The user's experience with wood heating and the stoves, furnaces, OWB, Masonry Fireplaces. One stove, one year, buying CSD, and using the wood for heating up from 65 F ain't experience.

And, if you do heat with wood, attention to the stove and a new fill are critical.

"Sweet spot" sounds kinda raunchy.....how do we find it ? :lol:

Look, I'm not saying this method is the end all, be all. He asked a question: do you find that you have to open the bypass and/or primary air control all the way and char the new split if you add one to a an already established fire. I answered as truthfully as I know how: no, I do not.

I'm getting to the point where I feel like I have to qualify every answer or every little bit of advice with "this is not a substitute for legal, professional, or other accounting advice. You should additionally seek the services of a competent professional. Neither the station nor its host are blah blah blah..."

Sorry, but damn.

 

[fjord]

With seasoned wood, you should not have to adjust the primary air.

Why ?

If I already have a well established fire, and the stove has reached "cruising temp," I can simply lay on another split and not have to touch the primary at all. Within about 3 minutes things will be right back at "optimum". I've made the mistake of opening the bypass damper and primary air to full when doing this, and it will quickly let the stove hit 800F. Now, on the very rare occasion that I decide to add a fresh split to a "cruising" mode fire, I simply add the split and leave the primary in its sweet spot.

If it works...fine. BUTT Pagey--it depends on:

The particular stove engineering and design. No two stoves are the same.

The species and seasoning of the fuel. IF you use wood for full time heating, 24/7, +/- 100%, things vary....a lot.

Your heating needs and region. Northern New England, Wyoming and Michigan are definately NOT Tennessee.

The user's experience with wood heating and the stoves, furnaces, OWB, Masonry Fireplaces. One stove, one year, buying CSD, and using the wood for heating up from 65 F ain't experience.

And, if you do heat with wood, attention to the stove and a new fill are critical.

"Sweet spot" sounds kinda raunchy.....how do we find it ? :lol:

Look, I'm not saying this method is the end all, be all. He asked a question: do you find that you have to open the bypass and/or primary air control all the way and char the new split if you add one to a an already established fire. I answered as truthfully as I know how: no, I do not.
I'm getting to the point where I feel like I have to qualify every answer or every little bit of advice with "this is not a substitute for legal, professional, or other accounting advice. You should additionally seek the services of a competent professional. Neither the station nor its host are blah blah blah..."
Sorry, but damn.

Agreed.
Butt: how about that "sweet spot" ?

 

[Pagey]

Last time I am touching this thread. And I want to be clear as mud. I do not advocate loading up a stove to the gills and making no adjustments to the bypass damper (if so equiped) and the primary air (which we should all have).

I am saying that IF I decide to add A split to an already established fire that is cruising along nicely AND the firebox is already HOT, I can open the bypass for a sec, crack the door, lay on the split, and the shut the bypass again - NO touching of the primary air needed. Within 3 minutes, everything is settled to where it was before.

Again, I was simply answering his question as to whether or not I personally open the bypass and the primary until the fresh split is charred. Simply put: with well seasoned wood, adding a split does not require that I first open the stove full bore and "char" the new split.

Not looking to pick a fight/argument. I think I'll make my sig say: "the above comment may or may not pertain to your stove given: house layout, geographic location, stove size, stove material/construction, wood species, moisture content of wood, size of split, orientation of split, flue height, flue diameter, prevailing wind direction, interior/exterior chimney, type of gloves used, hearth pad material, phase of moon, etc."

 

[PapaDave]

To find the "sweet spot", you just have to keep playing with it. Really though, you must surely know where it's at by now!?
Soupy, I added a couple splits a few minutes before going to bed last night. Left the air right where it was, which was closed almost as much as I can close it on this beast. Mostly coals in the stove with one split still giving off some small flame. Stove was at 450, flue at 300, and I opened the door slowly, as I always do, and just a crack to start with. Mucho air flow into the stove and out the flue. If those splits hadn't caught, I would have opened the air for a minute. With all the hot coals in the stove though, not a problem.
Not saying that will work for everyone, but the point is, there should only be a general guideline for this stuff, since every setup and situation is different. YMWV

 

[oldspark]

Last time I am touching this thread. And I want to be clear as mud. I do not advocate loading up a stove to the gills and making no adjustments to the bypass damper (if so equiped) and the primary air (which we should all have).

I am saying that IF I decide to add A split to an already established fire that is cruising along nicely AND the firebox is already HOT, I can open the bypass for a sec, crack the door, lay on the split, and the shut the bypass again - NO touching of the primary air needed. Within 3 minutes, everything is settled to where it was before.

Again, I was simply answering his question as to whether or not I personally open the bypass and the primary until the fresh split is charred. Simply put: with well seasoned wood, adding a split does not require that I first open the stove full bore and "char" the new split.

Not looking to pick a fight/argument. I think I'll make my sig say: "the above comment may or may not pertain to your stove given: house layout, geographic location, stove size, stove material/construction, wood species, moisture content of wood, size of split, orientation of split, flue height, flue diameter, prevailing wind direction, interior/exterior chimney, type of gloves used, hearth pad material, phase of moon, etc."

You explained it to my satisfaction, your first short answer left some room for interpatation and I agreee no need to adjust the air in some cases.

 

[LLigetfa]

Not looking to pick a fight/argument. I think I'll make my sig say: "the above comment may or may not pertain to your stove given: house layout, geographic location, stove size, stove material/construction, wood species, moisture content of wood, size of split, orientation of split, flue height, flue diameter, prevailing wind direction, interior/exterior chimney, type of gloves used, hearth pad material, phase of moon, etc."

LOL I think you left out "sexual preference" which is where I think fj is trying to take this with the "sweet spot".

 

[MarkinNC]

Digressing a bit: nobody adds a couple of splits to an existing fire when banking the stove for the night? That is why I like to leave my stove in the sweet spot (which in this case is with the primary air turned way down).

 

[Backwoods Savage]

No. We plan our fires so that when banking for the night we have an empty firebox to work with. Well, empty other than some ashes and coals.