Briggs and Stratton small engine "new" designations ?!?!

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

PJF1313

Member
Oct 25, 2009
389
Pine Barrons, L.I., NY
A post recently here, in "The Gear" section, with some one upgrading their older B&S splitter engine to a new engine. Now, instead of giving the H.P. of the engine/carburetor; ie - 4 HP; 5.75 HP; they list /spec. as per pound-feet of torque.

Now, I don't know what you-all think, but, say for instance, I need a engine for my 22" mower. I'd would put something like a 4-1/2 to 5 hp on it - what kind of ft-lbs of torque do I need?! How the heck should I know? Do they/is it measured at the crankshaft or way out there at the edge of the blade?

Are they trying to make less engines for more of a broader range? Less parts to stock? The EPA? CARP compliance?

At work, I deal with a lot of small engines from B&S, Honda (and Knock offs), Kawasaki, and the old/forgotten Tecumseh. They range from the single cylinder 4 HP edgers to V-Twins up to 20. At home, I have a 4 hp edger to a 18.5 rider with both B&S and Tecumseh in the mix. If I have to re-power a piece, say a generator, and knowing that Tecumseh is dead, how do I go about doing so? Do I buy an Import (shutter) ?

Even though we joke about it at work; Briggs and Scrap Iron; Two Come Sh*&; Hope ya pull on it; Know-a-sh*&ty; and Good F'n luck (B&S, Tecumseh, Honda, Kawasaki, Honda-Knockoffs[1]) the Honda seem to give us the least amount of grief (besides the fuel tank covers and vapor lock) of them all.

This is NOT A COMPLAINT post, but, please, someone, educate me on the new B&S ratings.

P.J.




[1] a, NEW, out of the crate, front engine roto-tiller with a "Black-Labeled" Honda Knock-Off, was recently assembled; with the typical piss-poor instructions; leaked gas out of the tank cap/cover. Now, think about this - you're tilling an area, leaking gas IN FRONT of the tiller, tilling it in - HMMMM WTF good is tilling?! /rant!
 
It's not just B&S, all the manufacturers do it this way now.

I did a bunch of research this weekend and discoverd that a 259cc engine = about 11 ft lb torque rating, equals about the 8.5 hp rating of my snow blowers current Techumseh.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you work on this stuff for a living, you should be educating us NOT asking us to explain it to you!
 
This helps explain "why", Law suit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021501732.html

Converting cc to hp or torque to hp is fuzzy math, since they really don't compare.

more torque is more power (I think). More cc is more power (I think)
But the old "horse power" term may be a thing of the past for small engines.

converting new cc or torque ratings , has me confused. (& probably is meant to)
You probably know more than most since you have some experience at your work.
I just hope my lawnmower & log splitter work when needed.
My log splitter is a GVC 160 Honda, & it splits wood. What HP I have no idea, I don't even know what the GVC 160 means.
I believe (I've been told) it's equivalent to a 5.5hp, but now I don't know what that means either. but it works :)
Does that mean that 160 cc = 5.5 hp? ** Then divided cc by 29 = hp for Hondas?

You ask a very good question.
 
fishinpa said:
It's not just B&S, all the manufacturers do it this way now.

I did a bunch of research this weekend and discoverd that a 259cc engine = about 11 ft lb torque rating, equals about the 8.5 hp rating of my snow blowers current Techumseh.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you work on this stuff for a living, you should be educating us NOT asking us to explain it to you!

No, not taken the wrong way - I got "pushed" into my current position.

I'm an electrician by trade, and irrigation tech by suggestion, and a motor equipment mechanic by "overwhelming suggestion"! (4 our of the 5 mechanics where terminated due to "underperformance"/theft and the 5th got a better "paying" job w/out the beanies)
The benefits are good, but the job/idiots to deal with SUCK!

And with 22 years with them, I'll deal with the B.S. until I can retire!



EDIT - The "only" B&S engine I see on their site (B&S's) about a 8 HP, I guess, for a blower, or so it looks like. Sorry, I'm "ole Skool" gimme a hp rating any day.....
 
I posted the spliter upgrade and your right most small engines now rate thier motors with cc and foot pounds but with a little math you can figure some what close the hp rating. I don't have the formula with me but I will post it tommorow. The motor I put on is right at 6 hp. But I also agree I don't like the rating system either I am old school too and I prefer them to be rated in HP.
 
Dave, thanks for the link.

Electric motors are embellished a little? Noooo! you mean I can't run a 6.5 hp motor off of a standard outlet?

The article makes me wonder how badly they were exagerating the hp claims. I always took the ratings as sort of a "nominal peak output" but something that at least some of the engines would actually put out at some point in their lives. I still think they were almost as accurate as an electric motor plate that has hp, amps, and SF, more accurate than than a "purpose" motor plate that lists hp but not SF (air compressors), and way better than the 6.5hp shop vac.
 
bogydave said:
This helps explain "why", Law suit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021501732.html

Converting cc to hp or torque to hp is fuzzy math, since they really don't compare.

more torque is more power (I think). More cc is more power (I think)
But the old "horse power" term may be a thing of the past for small engines.

converting new cc or torque ratings , has me confused. (& probably is meant to)
You probably know more than most since you have some experience at your work.
I just hope my lawnmower & log splitter work when needed.
My log splitter is a GVC 160 Honda, & it splits wood. What HP I have no idea, I don't even know what the GVC 160 means.
I believe (I've been told) it's equivalent to a 5.5hp, but now I don't know what that means either. but it works :)
Does that mean that 160 cc = 5.5 hp? ** Then divided cc by 29 = hp for Hondas?

You ask a very good question.

Yep - leave it to the lawyers - AGAIN!!!!

My X.X hp engine did this, but zzz brand with yyy engine can do the same at k.k HP!

P.J.

Dave - we use the 160's, but with a gear-reduction on the out-put side. Does that mean we loose H.P. or gain torque!!!
BTW, it's on a piece of equipment that needs low speed, but alot of torque; but the torque and speed are regulated through chains/belts and sprocket gearing and has a simple on/off (/) forward/reverse clutch.
 
PJF1313 said:
bogydave said:
This helps explain "why", Law suit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021501732.html

Converting cc to hp or torque to hp is fuzzy math, since they really don't compare.

more torque is more power (I think). More cc is more power (I think)
But the old "horse power" term may be a thing of the past for small engines.

converting new cc or torque ratings , has me confused. (& probably is meant to)
You probably know more than most since you have some experience at your work.
I just hope my lawnmower & log splitter work when needed.
My log splitter is a GVC 160 Honda, & it splits wood. What HP I have no idea, I don't even know what the GVC 160 means.
I believe (I've been told) it's equivalent to a 5.5hp, but now I don't know what that means either. but it works :)
Does that mean that 160 cc = 5.5 hp? ** Then divided cc by 29 = hp for Hondas?

You ask a very good question.

P.J.

Dave - we use the 160's, but with a gear-reduction on the out-put side. Does that mean we loose H.P. or gain torque!!!
BTW, it's on a piece of equipment that needs low speed, but alot of torque; but the torque and speed are regulated through chains/belts and sprocket gearing and has a simple on/off (/) forward/reverse clutch.

**we use the 160's, but with a gear-reduction on the out-put side. Does that mean we loose H.P. or gain torque!!!**
Well at the engine output shaft, nothing changed, at the output of gear box, more torque & less rpms but less usable hp (the gear box uses up some of the power)
But I'm old school,
New ratings don't mean much to me, if it works at 3/4 throttle, crank it up to the bar, it'll work better.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.