Building a House....Picking a New Stove. Cat or Non-Cat???

[Backwoods Savage]

Thank you for the replies! I apologize for not being so clear with my question. I am not looking to debate which is better, cat or non-cat. I am looking for a new stove and want a good one for my application....

Here is my short list:
Napoleon 1400 - 2.3cuft
Quadrafire 4300 StepTop - 2.4cuft.
Woodstock Progress Hybrid - 2.8cuft.
Blaze King Princess - 2.8cuft.
PE T6/Summit - 3.0cuft
Hearthstone Mansfield - 3.2cuft

I love the set it and forget it feature of the BK. I also love the look of the Hearthstone stoves, specifically the techy features of the hybrid Progress. I'll have to read up on that one.

Hmmmmm. One thing that worries me is that during the shoulder seasons with well insulated house I might have to run the stove too low to avoid cooking myself out.

You will learn fast that you do not dial the temperatures with a wood stove the same as with a furnace. You don't want too much heat without roasting yourself out? Simple: Don't fill the firebox. Even with the cat, when you dial them down so there is no flame and the wood appears to be just smoldering, that catalyst will still kick out lots of heat. So do the major controlling with the amount and type of wood you burn.

 

[clemsonfor]

Another Cat owner and fan. Never had a non cat or messed with any other stove other than those cheap $150 ones they sell at TSC but i dont see how you can beat a cat stove. My cat seems to be doing fine after 1.5 years which i know is not long, supposedly when i got the stove used they put new cats in it then but i did not pull and verify. It was suppose to be about 5 years old when i got it but looked in great shape, i saw it before they cleaned it up so i know it was not prettied up yet.

I have a High valley stove, i think its 3.4 cuft. It will burn 24 hours or more when i dont need much heat and will burn 10-12 most of my winter and this is heating a 2500sqft poorly insulated area. But again i only live in SC.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

To answer some questions....yes this stove will be in the living space. Picture of intended floor plan below...

We'll be here for many years, I'm only 31 and I don't see moving any time soon.

I'm really digging the super long burn times of the Blaze Kings. The more I read the more I like the simplicity and ease of use.

The more I read about the Progress is that it seems more like a non-cat stove with a cat as a helper. Still a great stove, just not as long a burn time as a true cat stove. Doesn't seem to be one of the best secondary burners or the best cat burner, just somewhere in between.

Now I just have to figure out if I'd go with the King or the Princess......

Here is the floor plan for the first floor (1010sq.ft). Overall square footage will be 2020sq.ft.

I really hate to do this, but...
Ever thought about a masonry heater?
Take your entry closet space and move the bathroom into that. Your closet would be under the stairs now.
Since you've moved the bathroom 3' towards the entry, that void becomes the area for the masonry stove.
Since it's near the kitchen, you incorporate an oven into the masonry stove.
The heater is centrally located at this point, providing even heat and no fuss-no muss for operations.
You can always have a smaller free-standing stove for ambiance.
Just my thoughts. Good luck, JB

 

[Todd]

I really hate to do this, but...
Ever thought about a masonry heater?
Take your entry closet space and move the bathroom into that. Your closet would be under the stairs now.
Since you've moved the bathroom 3' towards the entry, that void becomes the area for the masonry stove.
Since it's near the kitchen, you incorporate an oven into the masonry stove.
The heater is centrally located at this point, providing even heat and no fuss-no muss for operations.
You can always have a smaller free-standing stove for ambiance.
Just my thoughts. Good luck, JB

+1 If I was building a new home I'd love to have a huge masonry heater smack dab in the middle of an open floor plan.

 

[rdust]

I really hate to do this, but...
Ever thought about a masonry heater?

I think the cost of a masonry stove is what steers most people away from them. I thought I remember reading prices in the 30-40K on here before??

 

[begreen]

Not for a Tulikivi last I checked.

 

[begreen]

If building new, put the chimney and the stove in the interior of the house. It's a superior design.

 

[BurnIt13]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! In an ideal world I would build a house with a masonry heater...those things are awesome! But, we do have a budget and were pushing it as it is. To save money we are going with a modular home and although things can be moved a little bit, what we are describing here is gonna cost money for a redesign.

In addition, there is a basement so that coat closet can't be moved to under the stairs. We're in the planning phase so no money has been spent but its either this floorplan that we love.....or we find another one, not much sense modifying this one.

So....more money to go custom house, more money for masonry heater......not gonna happen. Maybe in 30 years when the kids are gone and we build a small little cottage up in the mountains somewhere.

Good point on the interior chimney though. That's how I built mine. If I were to go through the ceiling it would be in the corner of an upstairs bedroom. Not too difficult.

On another note....I've always been a fan of burning N/S. It just seems smarter since a log rolling onto the glass is less likely. The BK Princess has an advertised max log length of 16" N/S. Is that accurate? I'd have to change the way I cut wood....I'm used to 18-20".

 

[rdust]

The BK Princess has an advertised max log length of 16" N/S. Is that accurate? I'd have to change the way I cut wood....I'm used to 18-20".

18" won't fit on the first layer, you can get 17-17 1/2 on the first layer after you're above the bricks you can fit the 18's pretty easy. I have some 18" splits in my stacks and just make sure I use them on the second row.

 

[BurnIt13]

Good to know. The more I have been thinking about it....the more I want a cat stove. I like the idea of adding wood 1-2 times per day (depending on the stove). The ability to go low and slow during the shoulder season and still have an efficient stove is also a huge plus.

The new house will be tight as a drum so I don't think I'm going to need a heat monster. A cat stove sounds like just what I need. I've got a few cat stoves in mind and have some specific questions on them so I'm going to start a new thread.

Again, thanks for everyone's help!

 

[begreen]

You will be guessing until the heat loss calcs are done. But to give you a comparison, in mid NY state, my BILs house with a bit more sq ftg is heated using about 2 cords of wood a year in a normal heating season. What will be the wall construction design and thickness, 2x6 or staggered 2x4s? What will be the insulation?

 

[BurnIt13]

I agree, its hard to know exactly how much stove I need until a heat loss calc is done. But until then....

The exterior walls are:
- 2x6, 16" O.C.,
- R-19 fiberglass batt insulation
- Tyvek building wrap
- 1/2" rigid foam board (R-2.5) on exterior beneath the vinyl siding

The 2nd floor ceiling has:
- R-38 fiberglass batts in the joist bays with R-30 rolled over the R-38 perpendicularly for a total of R-68. There will be a 300sq.ft. section that only has R-38 as plywood will be put down for some attic storage.

The windows and doors are:
- Double pane, low-e windows
- Insulated steel doors.

Basement ceiling has:
- R-30 fiberglass batts.

Its going to be a very well insulated house. I will be using an outside air kit as well.

 

[begreen]

Sounds good up top, but why is the basement ceiling getting insulated? Will the basement ever be heated? Or, will there be a drum kit setup down there?

My preference would be to insulate the walls on the exterior. And to install a top of the line HRV.

 

[BurnIt13]

Hahaha.....good point. Its actually building code here.....Its kinda pointless IMO as far as return on investment goes, but its code. Maybe its just a carry-over from when basements were really crappy and the rim joists weren't sealed.

It will help the noise though when I make a playroom for my kid

 

[begreen]

Check to see if insulating the basement shell is an acceptable alternative. Otherwise this seems to be a waste of money.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Hahaha.....good point. Its actually building code here.....Its kinda pointless IMO as far as return on investment goes, but its code. Maybe its just a carry-over from when basements were really crappy and the rim joists weren't sealed.

It will help the noise though when I make a playroom for my kid

Just remember, heat doesn't travel down.

 

[neumsky]

You have quite well described a Woodstock stove with your list. To add to it, the Progress Hybrid also can come with a cook top.

I won't touch too much on the cat vs. non-cat except to say that most things you hear or read about cat stoves are pure bunk. I recall when shopping for our last stove being a bit afraid of a cat stove. Seems I too had heard and read some bad press about cat stoves and there were some bad ones on the market for a time. But like automobiles, someone might buy a Ford (or Chevy or ....) and have some bad luck with it. Does that make all Fords bad? I think not.

We got a cat stove and we did have to learn a bit to run it properly but the learning curve was pretty darned short. You asked about the chimney staying cleaner. That is a good question and I'm glad you asked. With our previous stove, we used to clean our chimney 4-6 times each winter. We've had our Woodstock Fireview, a cat stove, for 5 full winters now. We've cleaned our chimney one time. It is still clean.

Taking care of the cat is really tough....if you listen to some. It takes me less than 5 minutes to clean the cat. It is done once during the normal summer cleaning and again mid-winter. We use an old paint brush to brush the fly ash from the cat. Usually there is very, very little to brush off. It is easy. Let the stove get down to coals; a little more than you would for reloading the stove. Of course the manual states to let the stove get cold. We simply wear welder's gloves, the same ones we use when loading the stove. Lift the cat out, take it to the porch and brush it. Lay cat back in and close the lid. Reload the stove and you are done.

Now see here is a guy that's making a statement out of line about non cats...4-6 times a year???Cmon...non cats don't need to be cleaned but once a year...I've got friends who don't clean their non cats but every 3 years!

 

[rdust]

Now see here is a guy that's making a statement out of line about non cats...4-6 times a year???Cmon...non cats don't need to be cleaned but once a year...I've got friends who don't clean their non cats but every 3 years!

Settle down skippy, he didn't state what his previous stove was. He was using a Pre-EPA stove(Ashley??) it wasn't an EPA non cat so don't get your britches in a bunch.

 

[neumsky]

Settle down skippy, he didn't state what his previous stove was. He was using a Pre-EPA stove(Ashley??) it wasn't an EPA non cat so don't get your britches in a bunch.

I'm not even close to being upset princess...but the guy needs to be informed that the cleaning differential... is not that substantial. This cat/noncat discussion has been going on a long time. And in my opinion...still an intriguing discussion. We all want the best stove...especially for the money! If you sensed I'm getting upset...maybe your just too sensative. It's hard to hurt my feelings.

 

[Ashful]

Now see here is a guy that's making a statement out of line about non cats...4-6 times a year???Cmon...non cats don't need to be cleaned but once a year...I've got friends who don't clean their non cats but every 3 years!

Many only clean their cat's once per year. Unless you have reason to believe it's become fouled, there's no need to pull and clean it. Then again, it takes less than 5 minutes to clean, and it never hurts to check it from time to time.

neumsky, I think I have a dead horse over here that needs another flogging. You're clearly the man for the job.

 

[Jags]

It is not uncommon for people running the old smoke dragons to sweep their stack monthly. So basically 6 times per year +/-. They are non cat - and NON EPA. I am not sure where Dennis has misrepresented this in any way.

And as far as informing the "guy" of cleaning differentials - Dennis has been playing this wood burning game for more years than most of the forum members have been alive.

 

[neumsky]

It is not uncommon for people running the old smoke dragons to sweep their stack monthly. So basically 6 times per year +/-. They are non cat - and NON EPA. I am not sure where Dennis has misrepresented this in any way.

And as far as informing the "guy" of cleaning differentials - Dennis has been playing this wood burning game for more years than most of the forum members have been alive.

Yes...I can understand that...except it might lean the guy in another direction...cause he's not familiar with the cleaner burning stoves of today.

 

[Jags]

Information is key. Throw it out there and the buyer can make his/her decision. Sometimes info needs clarification.

 

[neumsky]

Many only clean their cat's once per year. Unless you have reason to believe it's become fouled, there's no need to pull and clean it. Then again, it takes less than 5 minutes to clean, and it never hurts to check it from time to time.

neumsky, I think I have a dead horse over here that needs another flogging. You're clearly the man for the job.

Does this ring a bell Joful... who's beating the dead horse here? I think in your previous posts your referring to cat vs noncat.

 

[neumsky]

Information is key. Throw it out there and the buyer can make his/her decision. Sometimes info needs clarification.

Absolutely...but the guy's not going out and buy a fire dragon.