Building Inspector Concerned with Outdoor Smoke

[heat4steve]

I want to put econoburn 150 in an outside shed. My building inspector is concerned tha smoke will impact the surrounding homes. He is okay with me putting it in the house because the chimney would be higher. He would be okay if I used a garn outside. Can anyone provide some persuasive information I could use? A garn is not in my budget and I do not think I can persuade my wife to allow a wood boiler indoors. Thanks.

 

[heaterman]

Do you know anyone that has one near you? Maybe the guy would change his mind if he saw one in operation. Other than that...........................I don't know....Every code book I've ever seen contained the phrase "subject to local jurisdiction" and that can be a problem sometimes.
Did you show him that the EB's are EPA approved?

 

[emesine]

I saw a post once of a guy that ran a city bus next to his wood burner. His burner put out less than the city bus in terms of particulate, etc. That would be a great resource to show him. The unit was not a garn.

Andrew

 

[heat4steve]

Thank you. The EPA approval could help. I assume the garn in general generates less smoke since it has thermal storage and typically runs at a max capacity. I plan to use thermal storage with the econoburn but probably will not replicate the garn in performance. Could I expect to generate more smoke than a garn?

 

[heaterman]

Thank you. The EPA approval could help. I assume the garn in general generates less smoke since it has thermal storage and typically runs at a max capacity. I plan to use thermal storage with the econoburn but probably will not replicate the garn in performance. Could I expect to generate more smoke than a garn?

Having had intimate interaction with both, I gotta say the Garn is substantially less. I haven't seen anything that smokes as little as a Garn.
Storage will definitely help you out though.

 

[pybyr]

I have an Econoburn EBW 150, and once it is in gasification (usually easily reached in 10 minutes or less) there is virtually no visible smoke out the chimney for the rest of the burn cycle- merely some steam; typically zero to very little smell even of woodsmoke.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

You might show the inspector the Youtube videos of an Econoburn at full fire. I have never seen firebrick glow that hot. Even the inspector could see that there is not much combustible that will get past that, Randy

 

[Tony H]

How dense are the houses in the area ? All the units will push out some smoke if they have to idle . Did he give you an idea of chimney height ? A high wind could knock some down later you know.

 

[heat4steve]

Tony H,

The house around me are 200 to 300' apart. So not very close. The chimney height would be equivalent to that for a typical ranch house. I was thinking I could equal this height with double wall pipe coming out the top of a shed where the boiler will be placed.

 

[Chris Hoskin]

I am not aware of any indoor gasifier type boilers that are EPA certified. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Put your inspector in touch with NYSERDA in Albany, they are very well informed about the benefits of two-stage gasification boilers and recognize them as superior to the majority of certified outdoor wood boilers.

 

[heat4steve]

BioHeat Sales Guy,

Thank you. I will try to get documentation from NYSERDA along with some detailed product information. I spoke with the inspector today and he seems receptive to approving a permit. He noted however that I will ultimately be at the mercy of my neighbors.

 

[heaterman]

I am not aware of any indoor gasifier type boilers that are EPA certified. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Put your inspector in touch with NYSERDA in Albany, they are very well informed about the benefits of two-stage gasification boilers and recognize them as superior to the majority of certified outdoor wood boilers.

I thought that Econoburn had EPA level 1 at least. Maybe I'm mistaken.

As for Garn, the EPA is still trying to come up with a valid test for them that accurately measures the output and particulates. I think they may be tangling with someone there who really knows his combustion technology and it's making them (EPA) scratch their collective head a bit....... I'll know more in a week.

 

[mascoma]

BioHeat Sales Guy,

Thank you. I will try to get documentation from NYSERDA along with some detailed product information. I spoke with the inspector today and he seems receptive to approving a permit. He noted however that I will ultimately be at the mercy of my neighbors.

If there is nothing in the code or local ordinance to prohibit the intallation and operation I don't see how the inspector or neighbors would matter... unless your putting it in the shed on the property line or something.

 

[Reggie Dunlap]

Local zoning either allows a boiler in a shed or it doesn't. There should be nothing subjective about it. It's not up to the local inspector to tell you what kind of boiler to buy.

 

[iceman]

Local zoning either allows a boiler in a shed or it doesn't. There should be nothing subjective about it. It's not up to the local inspector to tell you what kind of boiler to buy.

very good point sounds like the inspector is trying to make you get what he wants you to have..... put a high chimney on and they will complain its ugly

 

[shagy]

I am not aware of any indoor gasifier type boilers that are EPA certified. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Put your inspector in touch with NYSERDA in Albany, they are very well informed about the benefits of two-stage gasification boilers and recognize them as superior to the majority of certified outdoor wood boilers.

I thought that Econoburn had EPA level 1 at least. Maybe I'm mistaken.

As for Garn, the EPA is still trying to come up with a valid test for them that accurately measures the output and particulates. I think they may be tangling with someone there who really knows his combustion technology and it's making them (EPA) scratch their collective head a bit....... I'll know more in a week.

BioHeat and Econoburn both were on the EPA's Phase 1 listing. While they are not as clean burning as some of the Phase 2 boilers listed they are for sure way cleaner than old indoor and outdoor burners. Take time to show the EPA test results. There are many out there that are against wood burning that need a education. Their kinda like a predigest person against a race

 

[Tony H]

BioHeat Sales Guy,

Thank you. I will try to get documentation from NYSERDA along with some detailed product information. I spoke with the inspector today and he seems receptive to approving a permit. He noted however that I will ultimately be at the mercy of my neighbors.

If the inspector approves the permit wouldn't the neighbors would have to get an ordinance passed to regulate boilers and make it retroactive in order to cause you trouble or you would have to put out enough smoke to cause a violation of an existing regulation.
Did the inspector explain how you would be at the "mercy" of your neighbors ? This is the reason there are rules ,regulations and permits involved if it's all legal there should be no need for mercy from anyone. Around here the inspectors that act like that are looking for a little cash on the side if you know what I mean. One way to find out is ask if there is a way to expedite your application say a fee perhaps and see what he says .

 

[heaterman]

BioHeat Sales Guy,

Thank you. I will try to get documentation from NYSERDA along with some detailed product information. I spoke with the inspector today and he seems receptive to approving a permit. He noted however that I will ultimately be at the mercy of my neighbors.

If the inspector approves the permit wouldn't the neighbors would have to get an ordinance passed to regulate boilers and make it retroactive in order to cause you trouble or you would have to put out enough smoke to cause a violation of an existing regulation.
Did the inspector explain how you would be at the "mercy" of your neighbors ? This is the reason there are rules ,regulations and permits involved if it's all legal there should be no need for mercy from anyone. Around here the inspectors that act like that are looking for a little cash on the side if you know what I mean. One way to find out is ask if there is a way to expedite your application say a fee perhaps and see what he says .

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that's the way the current EPA "suggestions" are slanted. If someone gripes you are obligated to remediate the situation.

The chickens are putting neighbor against neighbor instead of mandating appliances that burn efficiently in the first place. It looks to me like the NE states and the Midwest states are moving in the direction of forming two different groups or associations that will promulgate their own rules and regs by region. We'll have to see how that works out.

 

[heat4steve]

Thanks to everyone for their response. I will ask the building inspector for the regulations/codes. After that I will assemble the documentation for him and request the building permit. The inspector drives by my home every day or else I would be tempted to install without approval. The smoke if any from the boiler will be at least 300' upwind from the closest house so this should not be an issue - but you never know. Thanks again and I expect you will see me post in the future as I plan and install the Econoburn 150.

 

[Bliz]

Mascoma and some of the other comments above hit the nail on the head. What an inspector wants, wishes, thinks or believes is horse manure for the most part. An inspector can only enforce what was legally adopted by a legislative body, such as the state, county or town. The belief that an inspector can shut you down because of what your neighbors may say, absent a direct violation of a specific rule or code, is ludicrous. As a tax payer you have an absolute right for a copy of the specific rules that effect your operation, a detailed explanation of the provisions and an appeal process if you don't agree. The most important thing to verify is that the so-called rule the inspector is citing was actually adopted by your town, county or state. I have heard building inspectors quote the National Fire Protection Association codes as requiring X, Y and Z countless times when the fact is the codes were never adopted by the governing jurisdiction. Ask detailed specific questions and except nothing less for answers.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Just a cautionary note:

Some of the responses had hinted that you can deal with the inspector in shall we say an "abrupt manner".

Please avoid this at all costs.

I have spent the majority of my life in the building trades, most of that self employed & the inspector is the last person you want to offend. The old saying "by the power vested in me" applies to all inspectors as they are the ones who have that power. Not someone you want to offend. They are there for the protection of the public, make sure things are done to at least minimum code & should already be on your side as most I have met prefer to educate/teach rather than simply enforce the rules. Ie: help you get it done right the first time rather than stand by & watch you fail then force you to remedy the problem. Treat them well & you should get the same in return. Treat them poorly & you may come up with a whole new definition of term "ball buster".

 

[breklaw]

My now dead best friend used to do rehab construction in Lynn MA and he loved to tell the story about the gas piping inspector, ( cities actually have an inspector JUST for gas !! ) who had a plaque behind his desk which read: " Arguing with the inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud- sooner or later you figure out he likes it". You can win the battle at this level, but you may loose the war.
Bill

 

[logjammed]

I would think its under the board of healths regulations. you may want to check with them if possible.

 

[heat4steve]

To all,

Thanks for your feedback and wisdom. My approach with the inspector is not adversarial. However, I am driving for him to provide a clear definition on the rules. He has been vague in the past on other issues on my home and in one case issued a stop work order. Even so we are on good terms but I want to avoid further problems. Thanks again. This forum is a great help.

 

[heaterman]

I want to put econoburn 150 in an outside shed. My building inspector is concerned tha smoke will impact the surrounding homes. He is okay with me putting it in the house because the chimney would be higher. He would be okay if I used a garn outside. Can anyone provide some persuasive information I could use? A garn is not in my budget and I do not think I can persuade my wife to allow a wood boiler indoors. Thanks.

If I could make a suggestion.........Why don't you get in touch with Econoburn. Give Mark Odell a ring at 716-785-3610 and see what he has to say. I know they have a broad range of experience concerning dealings with local issues and codes and Mark would be the guy that can get you steered in the right direction. From my experience with both the company and their product you can count on a very high level of support. You'll find them more than willing to help.