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Building new house with cathedral ceilings. Stove choice?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by jzinckgra, May 17, 2012.

  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Most local wood suppliers cut it to 16" here. It makes it easy to measure out an exact cord. (48"x48"x96"). The Carrabasset is the F55, but I never hear it called by that odd name. It sounds like a car loving hound dog.

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  2. fortydegnorth

    fortydegnorth New Member

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    I would be a little concerned for using radiant heat as a back-up. We have radiant, in floor heat, in a slab ranch, and it takes quite a while to heat the floor enough to warm the house. The problem is once the floors are warm they will continue to radiate heat for a long time. If your radiant comes on during the day and then you build a fire at night in the stove it seems you will be using a lot of energy to heat the floors up and then you'll be cooking once the stove is running. I went with wood for this exact reason. Radiant heat sucks in the shoulder season unless you like to open windows to cool off. We run the radiant if we have a hectic week or if we are going on vacation, otherwise it's all Clydesdale for heating. Warm floors are wonderful but they can be a headache for quick or intermittent heating.
  3. madison

    madison Minister of Fire

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    similar to 40degrees, i would also research putting radiant behind the walls of the cathedral room, as the volume of the room etc is large. i would imagine a competent HVAC installer could calculate all of the demands etc. and give their opinion.

    I personally would design the home around the radiant hvac as the primary heat souce, and not the woodstove - for a couple reasons, 1. resell 2. you get too old to deal with wood etc etc. to name a few reasons
  4. Angus

    Angus Burning Hunk

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    Jotul f350
    Not sure if that is available in the US?
    Jotul f118 if you are looking for something simplistic, it really throws out the heat, and has a higher output than stated by the manufacturer.
    Both stoves will burn 24/7 no re-kindling in the morning
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    If you are primarily looking for a chill chaser for the shoulder seasons, there are lots of choices in the 2+ cu ft range that will give you a good long burn and a nice fire view. If you think you will be burning 24/7 all winter then move up to a 3 cu ft stove.
  6. jzinckgra

    jzinckgra Member

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    I should clarify; the radiant will be the primary heat source with woodstove backup. However, when we're home we'll likely run the woodstove, but not 24/7, as our schedules won't allow for it.
  7. jzinckgra

    jzinckgra Member

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    coming back to this thread and thinking of other stoves for our great room. Some have suggested a radiant stove (vs convective) would be a better choice. I assume cast iron and granite stoves are considered radiant stoves? Reason I am asking is although I like the look of the cast iron stoves, some of the steel stoves like the Osburn series throw out a lot of heat. Too many stoves to choose from. FYI, here is the pdf floorplan (main level):

    Attached Files:

  8. ddown

    ddown Member

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    I have a 1600 sq foot with 30' to the peak with 12 foot sidewalls PE super27 keeps it warm all winter Fans are a must I'd go 1 size up to a summit
  9. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    If there's a good deal on a used Oslo, I'd grab it fast. Use it the first year or two, and upgrade/downgrade later, if you find it necessary. The Oslo is probably fairly well sized for your needs, but once you have the hearth and flue set up, you can easily swap the stove. You won't likely lose any money on re-selling a stove you bought used.
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Good advice. If you go this route I would recommend you oversize the hearth and locate the flue so that it is fairly easy to install a different stove later on.

    If you want to get the used Oslo, inspect if very carefully for signs of neglect or abuse. Look closely for external cracks and signs of overfiring. Examine the interior for any warping of interior plates or tubes and in particular, examine the base area around the floor grate. Pull the grate and look for cracks starting at the grate perimeter. Check with a straight edge to assert that the grate has not warped.
  11. jzinckgra

    jzinckgra Member

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    There are a couple Oslo's on CL locally for 1500-2500 with or without stove pipe. So, even with ceiling fans, are convective stoves just not going to work as well or efficiently as a radiant type stove?
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    This will be an issue with either a convective or radiant stove. A fan on the stove will help. FWIW, I have a convective stove in an open floor plan and really like the way it works. But I had to put in a false lintel in the large opening from the living room into the hallway because too much heat was heading upstairs.

    A few years back I helped a friend that had a hard to heat A Frame house. He had a VC Intrepid that was undersized for the job. We put in an Alderlea T5 and that really helped even out the heat with the blower running at low speed. But the next year he installed a ceiling fan, blowing upward, to help break up heat stratification at the second story level. He had second story loft bedrooms that were too warm while it was just right at the main floor level.
  13. jzinckgra

    jzinckgra Member

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    Also looked at that stove and noted the large clearances req'd for a corner install. We'll need to get as close to the corner as can and the specs say the TL300 requires ~38" from the back to the wall and 18" from the stove's back corners to the wall. Do steel stoves generally have larger clearance requirements?

    Starting to like the looks of the Boston 1700 free standing, but not many reviews. Local dealer has a showroom model he's willing to sell for $2k. I'm going to see if I can get a heat loss calc from our builder as I think this may help nearrow down the stove choices rather than base it off the firebox size.
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Steel stoves often have closer clearances when compared to more radiant, true cast iron stoves. Many steel stoves have side shields or a full convective jacket (ie Napoleon, Pacific Energy). The Boston is a steel stove with a cast iron jacket and would be a good choice for an attractive convective stove. It's new, but I believe it's built on the proven Kodiak 1700 box which is a well made stove.
  15. charly

    charly Guest

    Just a heads up on having radiant heat. We had a full scribe log home with 22 ft cathedral ceilings. 18-24 inch log diameters. All radiant heat in the basement slab and under the main floors. Even though the logs held the heat mass, you will be waiting hours for the radiant heat to start warming you if it has been off all day because of another heat source. You'll wind up being cold and using a ton of energy to warm the house back up again. We had a solar gain of 7 degrees every sunny day in the winter, no heat needed by 10 am. At around 5 pm I would turn on our radiant heat so by 7 pm when the house cooled to 70 the radiant heat would have already caught up. Just something to think about. We were heating with a gasification wood boiler with 1600 gallons of thermal storage at the time, so the heat was free, so to speak, wood came from our property.
  16. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Woodstock progress hybrid...beautiful stove, easy to use, great customer support, tremendous heater, very efficient, fabulous view of fire, long burns.
  17. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    ~2600 ft², lofted 2nd floor, central forced air electric furnace, Lopi Liberty. Ceiling fan(s) an absolute must, or all your heated air will just stratify way up above where you are. Great Room & lofted upstairs (3 rooms) are no problem to heat at all. Downstairs rooms remote from the Great Room are the challenge, but clever use of fans can make it all work. Rick

    house2.jpg after1.jpg gr1.jpg
  18. jzinckgra

    jzinckgra Member

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    This is my biggest concern going with the woodstove. We've always wanted radiant, but even if we locate the thermostat far enough away, which really won''t be that far (~25') I can see the T-stat for the radiant being tripped off, even if we only set it to 68F. The stove IMO will easily get the room temp above that, so off goes the radiant, then middle of the night, if the stove goes out, we start to freeze. Slight exaggeration perhaps, but I don't want to upset the efficiency of the radiant in conjunction with the mod/con boiler. We have a lot of wood on our property, and I want to use it, plus the fact the woodstove as everyone knows, is great heat and provides nice ambiance.

    The only other option would be to skip the radiant and go HHBB, but one of the 1st wish list items on our list was radiant and I don't think I could talk my wife out of it at this point.

    Just to add, our radiant will only be on the main floor and will be the staple up install, not embedded in cement, so warm up times won't be as long as concrete, but still a concern.
  19. jzinckgra

    jzinckgra Member

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    yes, others have suggested this, but our schedules won't allow for 24/7 stove burning, so not sure soapstone would be right for us. Also the longer warm up times of stone may not be optimal for us as well, but I do like the stoves in general.
  20. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    I don't think this is much of an issue with the PH. It has a very large front window and a slanted baffle that sends heat out the window pretty quickly. I don't think you'd notice a meaningfull difference in warm up times over other stoves. What kind of schedule are you working with? I'd recommend whatever your schedule, you get a large stove that can easily burn overnight. For cathedral ceilings, I much prefer a more radiant stove, but it looks like opinions vary on this.
    rideau likes this.
  21. tomc585

    tomc585 Member

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    When properly designed and operated, hydronic radiant can provide a very efficient and comfortable home heating solution. It is also invisible, no ducts and no baseboards.
    With my system I leave the thermostats set to 65deg F. This ensures that the home stays warm if the fire goes down or out. Radiant systems aren't designed to "quick heat" an area like forced hot air (FHA). I had FHA and hated it, dry and dust pushers. My radiant rarely comes on but when it does the system is (at the least) at ambient temperature from the wood stove and ready to take over. When my wood stove heats my den with stone flooring it can circulate back to the storage tank to help maintain its temp (120degF)

    I wish my county allowed outdoor wood boilers, I would go that route to minimize the mess.

    1800sqft colonial
    dedicated 50gal oil fired water heater to supply 5 zone radiant system
    (separate 32 gal for domestic H2O)
    1400 series napoleon insert (4cords per year)
    1,000 in ground fuel oil tank
  22. charly

    charly Guest

    I'd keep the radiant heat no matter what. If you get tired of wood heat you now have a nice heating system. If you think the stove will be going out in the middle of the night, just set the radiant heat to come on at 74 degrees before turning in for the night. Then turn it down once you get up. You'll figure it out once you live with it a while. Nice thing about a wood stove, it works when the power is out.
  23. charly

    charly Guest

    Been there with the outdoor wood boiler, yes the mess will be outside but you'll burn 10-12 cords verses the 4 your burning now. Just think, all the wood you gather for one year for the outdoor boiler will last you 3 years inside. You'll get tired of harvesting that much wood every year, plus the power goes out, now your running a generator or things will start to freeze up. Inside wood stove, power goes out, enjoy the heat. wait until it's below zero out, blowing and you have to go outside to load the stove when you get home from work, and then before you go to bed. It get old! Then you'll have barrels full of ashes to deal with too. I had a big driveway to use mine on back then. I even went the gasification boiler route with 1600 gallons of storage in an out side insulated building. Again , the power goes out you banking on a generator from costing you a freeze up. And still a lot of wood. I'll take a simple wood stove any day and just sweep or vacuum up any mess. A lot less headaches and tinkering. A wood stove you can just enjoy!
    firefighterjake likes this.
  24. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Plus bothers the heck out of me that people are using 3 x the wood they need to ehat their houses. Somedy we may all be sorry. Wood takes time to grow, we need it to keep the air clean plus for a lot of other reasons, and more and more people are heating with wood. Makes me cry to see the woodlots that are being clear cut, the wood that is cut when there is plenty on the ground that would just take a bit more work to use...We are loosing so many of our tree species that we should be very careful about and hesitant to cut good live trees. IMO.
    charly likes this.
  25. Coog

    Coog Burning Hunk

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    I couldn't agree more. I spent hours investigating the possibility of a wood gasification boiler. I think there are some great systems out there but the startup costs can be 2 to 4 times that of a high efficiency stove and/or ZC fireplace. I just couldn't get there.

    Granted, there is the mess inside but I personally think that is over exaggerated. I have burning since I was kid. Never bothered me.

    Oh by the way, I spoke to a local dealer and he was telling me about a wood gasification stove that is up and coming. Wonder what took so long? Exiting stuff.

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