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Building the MS460

Post in 'The Gear' started by MasterMech, May 16, 2012.

  1. loadstarken

    loadstarken Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    227
    Loc:
    Redmond, WA
    Find one on craigslist and I'm sure we could find a board member in the area pick it up and send it to you.
    MasterMech likes this.

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  2. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    I've got the crankcase pretty much ready to paint now. I scuffed the existing paint and ran a small roloc sanding disc over the really rough stuff. Masked off the areas that needed it too. Paint will happen tomorrow or Mon and then it's time to assemble!

    DSC03947.JPG

    Cut a blank for the bearing bore from an old index card.

    DSC03948.JPG

    Heat shrink tube works really well to mask the pivot posts for the chainbrake mech! So do cut pieces of drinking straw!

    DSC03949.JPG

    Just happened to have a cap that fit the impulse line nipple nicely.

    DSC03950.JPG

    Another index card blank for the flywheel side.

    DSC03951.JPG

    Not much paint left on the bottom/front of the case!

    Since I've joined the case halves temporarily for painting, I drove the locating dowels back into their bores to make separating the halves a matter of just removing the screws. This is important because with the crankshaft removed, I would have no good way to separate the halves again!
    smokinj likes this.
  3. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    460 works just fine in that "small" wood too. I run an 18" bar on mine and it's perfect.


  4. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Gonna sell a 460 to get a "1" series saw?

    Why? When you have so many others that are Not?

    That 460 will run circles around your 034. Makes the 230C seem like a child, the 034 is a juvenile, while the 460 is a Grown man the dont take Chit from anyone :)

    What ya askin???
  5. Freakingstang

    Freakingstang Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    261
    Loc:
    Berlin Center, Ohio
    Negative on the cheap paints... Stihl grey and orange, once cleaned and baked (1/2 hr @ 200) will last and be durable

    And a three digit "1" series ... You either have more money than brains or you have no real use for a saw. Keep the 046, and sell that 30 year old 034 and get a 361/2.

    We run 046's with 20" bars in these parts
    DexterDay likes this.
  6. Angelo C

    Angelo C Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    82
    Loc:
    Peoples Republic of NJ
    Hey MasterMech,
    If ya don't mind what did ya pay for the Stihl crankcase tools. I priced a set from my dealer and almost fell over. Almost $500.
    I held off for now. Been looking for a set for a long time, unfortunately I don't weld well (yet) or I'd make the splitter.
    I'd gladly pay $250 of the set. .
  7. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    I want newer, lighter, more efficient equipment. I want more first-hand experience with the new tech that's coming out. I don't work for a dealership anymore so there's only one way to do that. ;)

    I need a new saw like I need a hole in my head but want is another story. This is also a bit of a research mission. I thirst for new knowledge daily and playing with last-generation equipment isn't teaching me anything about the new stuff.

    I'm attached to my 034, selling it will be hard. You ever have a saw that ran just a bit better than it should? (never had the jug off it so I dunno if it's really an 034 or it has a 034S/036 top-end on it.)

    I'm keeping the MS230 because it's technically my mother's. (She has little use for it now.) I'm selling the 031 because it's 30+ years old, and there is so much better out there now for 50cc saws. It runs awesome and somebody will be glad to have an old magnesium saw instead of these new-fangled plastic jobs. ;) I fully know what to expect from this MS460 when it's complete. It's going to run an 8 pin rim and 20" Bar for awhile once it's complete until I sell it. (date to be determined, ;) )

    Besides, If you had the opportunity to turn your existing fleet in for newer, lighter, faster, and more efficient equipment, with little to no out of pocket costs, wouldn't you be crazy not to? This ain't happening overnight but I'm going to trade 3 saws for 2 new ones. I get great pricing on new quipment too. I might have to buy, build and flip one more saw to do it for zero out-of-pocket, but hey, if that's what it takes.... ;)

    Asking price on the 460 will be determined once I have a final tally of what I have into it.


    PM coming.
  8. Halligan

    Halligan Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    307
    Loc:
    Southeastern Massachusetts
    I'm really liking this thread. Good job with the pictures and explanations. I felt like I was on another saw friendly website while reading ;).
    MasterMech likes this.
  9. Freakingstang

    Freakingstang Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    261
    Loc:
    Berlin Center, Ohio
    Well, then sell the 046 and get the lightweight (actually heavier with less power) 441.
    DexterDay likes this.
  10. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Actually, and you will call me crazy, that's the plan. MS261 and a MS441C-M.

    441 heavier? nah. Both are 14.6 lbs (that's the 'official' spec anyways) and make similar power. .4 bhp difference with the MS460 having the edge at 6.0 bhp vs the 441C-M @ 5.6. That might make a difference with a 32"+ bar hanging off it but if I need a bar that size on a semi-regular basis, I'm going to be adding to the fleet again. ==c

    Don't worry, if I don't like either saw I'll let you know. >> Really wish Stihl would roll out Mtronic in more than one model. The Brits get the MS241 Mtronic, why can't we have it on the 261?
  11. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    I wouldn't mind having another hp or two on a 460 even with "just" an 18" bar. I have a 32" bar for mine and it struggles to cut wood with it. I like to be able to stick saw on wood and BZZZZ... through. No bogging or having to "work" the saw.
    I don't expect it to be a hot saw, but close. :cool:

    And no, it's not just my saw, I have cut with 2 other 460s and they all were the same power on the "butt dyno"
  12. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,969
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    Theres no saw that does not struggle in big wood. Even 120+cc's It comes down to chains and your hands.
    Nixon and MasterMech like this.
  13. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    DSC03952.JPG DSC03953.JPG DSC03954.JPG

    Ok, so I just had to do something about that broken fin. I think the mill cleaned it up nicely. ==c

    DSC03955.JPG DSC03956.JPG DSC03957.JPG DSC03958.JPG DSC03959.JPG

    Guess what was hanging out while I was working on that cylinder fin? No pictures but I media-blasted the recoil cover and clutch cover lightly to prep the OEM powder coat to take paint. I didn't want to do this to the crankcase and take a chance on getting grit where it shouldn't be.

    DSC03960.JPG

    Picture of the paint getting ready for "heat treatment". Just to prove it happened. ;) 2 hrs @ 200::F.
  14. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    14,640
    Loc:
    Northern IL
    Dude - I want that mill. {{drool}}

    Oh - and nice job on the other stuff.;lol
  15. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Yah, me too. :)

    It's just an ancient Bridgeport we have at work. Nothing fancy, all manual feeds, needs a LOT of work to be considered precise. ;lol
  16. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    14,640
    Loc:
    Northern IL
    For my use, I would prefer manual, but I don't want to side track this thread.
  17. Freeheat

    Freeheat Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Loc:
    West of Cleveland
    MasterMech
    My wife would have my a** for cooking paint in the oven
    Nice Bridgeport , I worked on a small block for 1-2 weeks building a stroker motor with a bridgeport. Is that at the house or do you have a shop ??

    JIM
  18. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Mine too. ::P;lol

    That's at my "night job" (I work overnights). Bridgeport, a Kearny Trekker (sp?) vertical mill that makes the Bridgeport look like a toy and an old Pratt & Whitney model C lathe. A few other nice toys too, including a 10' shear >>, and an ancient Do-All vertical bandsaw with hydraulic table feed.
  19. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    So back at it now and here are a few shots of the bottom-end I'm going to use.

    DSC03962.JPG DSC03963.JPG DSC03964.JPG DSC03965.JPG

    Man there is a ton of carbon on that piston for the minimal amount of time this saw ran. The donor saw was barely 2 weeks old before it was destroyed.
  20. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    DSC03966.JPG DSC03967.JPG

    This sleeve makes pressing the seal into the bearing race a snap. You could tap the seal into the race gently if you work carefully but I'd have an extra seal on hand if I was going that route. ;)

    DSC03968.JPG DSC03969.JPG DSC03970.JPG DSC03971.JPG

    Setup and pressing the seal in place.

    DSC03972.JPG DSC03973.JPG DSC03974.JPG

    Now to press the bearing into the crankcase.
  21. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Tonight I'm reassembling the crankcase! This all goes so much faster/easier with the proper tools.

    EDIT: (These are famous last words. This guy is going to get it for sure. :oops:)

    DSC03989.JPG DSC03990.JPG

    Using the flywheel side crankshaft press (same tool I used to press the crank out of the case) to pull the crankshaft back into the bearing/case. There is a threaded adapter sleeve (similar to a coupler nut) that adapts the tool from a press to a puller.

    DSC03991.JPG DSC03992.JPG

    Now to install the clutch side bearing. To do so, I temporarily re-installed the oil pump since it determines the depth/position of the bearing in the case.

    DSC03993.JPG

    Getting the bearing started straight in the bore was proving difficult. Probably has something to do with my HF Press but by laying the bearing on a press plate and using a large socket to press the case onto the bearing, I got it started in it's bore. Then I could flip it over and press it until it seats against the oil pump.

    DSC03994.JPG DSC03995.JPG

    I removed the oil pump to show the position of the bearing in the case.

    DSC03996.JPG

    Don't forget to install the oil pickup tube before you assemble the case halves.

    DSC03997.JPG DSC03998.JPG

    Again using a threaded sleeve to adapt the crankshaft press (clutch side this time) and use it as a puller.
    Hmmmm, I wonder why it doesn't want to close up that last 1/8"? ;hm
    smokinj likes this.
  22. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Disaster!

    DSC03999.JPG

    Uh Oh. Where did that come from?

    I'll show you tomorrow after the camera recharges. :confused:

    When I remounted the oil pump after that last photoshoot, I must've grabbed the wrong screw (too long). It punched a good hole in the wall of the crankcase instead of bottoming out. :mad:

    If you need me, I'll be combing ebay for another case. ;em;sick
  23. HDRock

    HDRock Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,188
    Loc:
    Grand Blanc, Mi
    Aw man ! bummer !!!
    Good info in the thread :) should be faster, tearing it down n puttin it back together, the second time around, it would be for me anyway
  24. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    It's pretty darn quick acutually, these tools make it pretty easy compared to any other method.
  25. Boog

    Boog Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    592
    Loc:
    NE Ohio
    I hate when those things happen. I've split two gas tanks on the 031AV reassembling them after having them all electronic converted and cleaned up. After screwing the tank/starter up to the left side of the saw, there is one bolt at the bottom of the right side to insert. Apparently over tightening this bolt puts enough stress on that side of the tank to ever so slightly separate it. The first one I thought was a fluke............... the second one really pissed me off because I was aware of it......................ARGGGGGGGGGGGG!!

    Good luck with the next 460 case!

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