Burn times, firebox size, stove temps? How often do you reload?

[bholler]

Replacement double pane vinyl windows are cheap, easy to install, and make an unbelievable difference vs 1970s windows.

Yeah not that cheap when you have as many big windows as I do. I have 42 windows roughly 6' by 2' and then another 8 or so smaller ones. I was quoted $30,000 and they would not guarantee they would not hurt my chestnut trim. I told them to take a hike. Also honestly They would look like crap on my house with its original siding ect. And when I had an energy audit done they were not to bad at all I would like to see how those vinyl windows do in 100 years.

 

[begreen]

El cheapo double-pane vinyl windows are usually somewhere around R2-R3 for the glass. Here's thermal data for the cheap line from home depot. (Divide 1 by the U value to get the R value.) The stuff off the shelf there is R3. If you upgrade, for example, to Anderson's high end triple pane E4 glass, you can get much better performance, but you are still only looking at R5.

Yes, R2-3 on average. Not much to crow about when you have walls of glass. I'm done upgrading windows. Have done all but a couple tiny ones. 33 windows on the first floor alone and a few of them are very large.

 

[woodhog73]

Try a small one first and see how it goes! You'll probably find it quite doable.

Replacement windows well you for sure have more skills than me with windows. I wish we lived nearby I'd offer you $250 bucks plus a case of beer or whatever you drink to help me with the first couple windows then I could take it from there. Just not sure of my skills to install windows.

 

[Niko]

Yeah not that cheap when you have as many big windows as I do. I have 42 windows roughly 6' by 2' and then another 8 or so smaller ones. I was quoted $30,000 and they would not guarantee they would not hurt my chestnut trim. I told them to take a hike. Also honestly They would look like crap on my house with its original siding ect. And when I had an energy audit done they were not to bad at all I would like to see how those vinyl windows do in 100 years.

Knock em all out and reframe the whole part with more non custom sizes to be budget friendy. Or put one big window. I assume such small windows do not open?

I have triple pane windows on my house with argon gas and they made a huge difference from the ones they replaced which was only single pane. I replaced 11 awning style windows for around 7600 dollars. Okna windows is the manufacturer.

 

[woodhog73]

I have 42 windows roughly 6' by 2' and then another 8 or so smaller ones. I was quoted $30,000 and they would not guarantee they would not hurt my chestnut trim.

Wow I agree at that price it would take a life time to see a positive return on that investment. Not sure how old you are but I'm in my 40s and I'll be cold and in the ground before I'd see any positive return on 30k windows. Yikes better to burn more wood and keep your money in your back pocket. Take a cruise somewhere warm before spending 30k on windows

 

[woodhog73]

Knock em all out and reframe the whole part with more non custom sizes to be budget friendy. Or put one big window. I assume such small windows do not open?

I think he said he has an old Victorian and doing that would ruin the look of the house. Some towns that want to preserve century homes would not give a permit to do so. In fact some very old historic area only allow certain colors on the house.

If it's an old historic Victorian no way would I want to change window design. Has to be original looking to the time period.

My two cents

 

[JGrover]

We have a tiny Jotul F100, but our house is 800sf and one story. Once the stove is a warm 350, I rake the wood and coals forward (I generally don't pack the stove initially), and pack it with wood to the back. Then the stove will quickly get to 600 and I damp it down 1/3 to 1/2 in a couple of steps. The house will get to 70 on a 20 degree night. I use whatever wood I can get. Some poplar in the warmer times, then oak, maple, locust etc in colder times. Burn times are dependent on the wood, but the best wood will last 6 hours and leave workable coals to rake forward and start again. After 6 hours, the stove is definitely below 350. If I wait overnight 8 hours, the coal bed is warm, but not enough to keep the fire going, so I have to start again from scratch. While it's the perfect size for the house, I do wish the burn time was a tad longer. It also favors "tiny" wood less than 5" diameter, so I spend a lot more time splitting and resizing the fuel.

 

[begreen]

Knock em all out and reframe the whole part with more non custom sizes to be budget friendy. Or put one big window. I assume such small windows do not open?

I have triple pane windows on my house with argon gas and they made a huge difference from the ones they replaced which was only single pane. I replaced 11 awning style windows for around 7600 dollars. Okna windows is the manufacturer.

Not likely. That just defers the cost to a lot of patchwork and repainting. Plus it could destroy the character of an older home and lower its market value. It's sometimes better to repoint old window, caulk and seal then add a storm window.

FWIW, single pane awning style windows are probably the leakiest out there. They belong in Florida. Anything would be a major improvement, even a sheet of plastic would be better.

 

[WayneN]

Not likely. That just defers the cost to a lot of patchwork and repainting. Plus it could destroy the character of an older home and lower its market value. It's sometimes better to repoint old window, caulk and seal then add a storm window.

FWIW, single pane awning style windows are probably the leakiest out there. They belong in Florida. Anything would be a major improvement, even a sheet of plastic would be better.

Funny you mention the plastic. I have newer double pane windows but the shrink wrap plastic goes on easy / cheap and definitely makes a difference ( especially in the 2nd floor bedrooms ). I have 1 wood stove ( the Englander Madison aka Summer Heat 2000 ) and it heats the whole town house. Granted though the layout is ideal as the 1st floor is completely open with the stove dead center on the outside wall, and the 2nd floor rooms all break off evenly from a small hallway. Heat flows up the steps and right into the rooms provided the doors are left open.


I get 6-8 hour burn times depending on what type of wood and how dry it is. I'm getting closer to 6 with the non seasoned maple I'm burning right now but I'm getting to 75 upstairs/ 80 downstairs with 30's outside.

I'm still learning the AAS setting and how much to choke it at night though. Sometimes the wood gets too choked and I get some lumps of char but no real red embers if I go 8 hours and choke it fully. I'm also only loading 3/4 with 4-5 inch splits too though.

I have 1050 ft ( about 500 per level ) and a halfway finished full height basement ( concrete floors and block walls ). I leave the basement door open and all bedrooms open. Basement gets to 60-65 ( very comfortable for my Shepherd ) and the upstairs floors stay 70-80 ish. On super cold nights ( 15-20 outside ) upstairs hits 65 though in the morning.

This forum has helped me a lot. Plenty of knowledge here and I'm thankful I found it! My coworker convinced me to get this thing ......and I bought it on a whim lol






Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[bholler]

Knock em all out and reframe the whole part with more non custom sizes to be budget friendy. Or put one big window. I assume such small windows do not open?

6' by 2' are not small windows at all and yes they are double hung and open very well. And no there is no way in hell I am knocking them out and putting smaller ones in. That would mean also tearing out all of the original trim which on the inside is American chestnut. And like I said the energy audit showed they were not that bad at all. Since then I have made gasketed wood storm windows that look appropriate and have helped. Honestly I know lots of people with 20 year old modern windows that dont open or close right anymore and leak like crazy way worse than my 100 year old ones even without storms. Yes if they were falling apart or something i would replace them but there is no way I would ever see any return on my investment by replacing them.

 

[seabert]

I only burn when temps outside drop below 40.
I have a VC Montpelier Insert in a 20x20 den with 13' vaulted ceiling.
The house is about 2800Sqft
During the evening when I am home I typically reload light every 2 hours with 2 splits or some Envi Blocks. Really just for effect of a nice fire to sit by but certainly not the most efficient.
I then load heavy 3 splits or Envi's for overnight around 11pm and still have heat from coals at 7am and do a restart from the coals.
My house is very efficient so my stove room typically gets to 76-80 and the for the rest of the house I can get to just over 70 even on the second floor(takes a couple of hours). I often supplement air movement by placing a small fan on the floor blowing into the stove room. This is actually quite effective in distributing the heat around the house. The key is to have the fan on the floor where air is cooler and push it to the stove.
If it is really windy I find my burn time is much shorter. Outside temperature does not seem to make a as big as a difference in burn time. I guess the wind helps the draft pull causing a faster burn.
For wood I mostly have Red Oak and some Cherry. I use the Envi blocks to increase heat output.

 

[Niko]

Not likely. That just defers the cost to a lot of patchwork and repainting. Plus it could destroy the character of an older home and lower its market value. It's sometimes better to repoint old window, caulk and seal then add a storm window.

FWIW, single pane awning style windows are probably the leakiest out there. They belong in Florida. Anything would be a major improvement, even a sheet of plastic would be better.

I thought single pane double hung where, their is more surface area and you also have the pArt where the 2 windows meet to lock which never really lines up perfect especially on old age ones.

Either way they both suck lol. Cant beleive windows cost so much money and as far character im sure a design can be made to compliment. If you make things more efficient and keep somewhat the style you will have no problems for resale. Me and my wife fell in love with some victorians in our area. The stair cases where so wide you could fit a grand paino up them and the wood work inside was excellent.

 

[Niko]

I only burn when temps outside drop below 40.
I have a VC Montpelier Insert in a 20x20 den with 13' vaulted ceiling.
The house is about 2800Sqft
During the evening when I am home I typically reload light every 2 hours with 2 splits or some Envi Blocks. Really just for effect of a nice fire to sit by but certainly not the most efficient.
I then load heavy 3 splits or Envi's for overnight around 11pm and still have heat from coals at 7am and do a restart from the coals.
My house is very efficient so my stove room typically gets to 76-80 and the for the rest of the house I can get to just over 70 even on the second floor(takes a couple of hours). I often supplement air movement by placing a small fan on the floor blowing into the stove room. This is actually quite effective in distributing the heat around the house. The key is to have the fan on the floor where air is cooler and push it to the stove.
If it is really windy I find my burn time is much shorter. Outside temperature does not seem to make a as big as a difference in burn time. I guess the wind helps the draft pull causing a faster burn.
For wood I mostly have Red Oak and some Cherry. I use the Envi blocks to increase heat output.

Have you taken any temps of the insert? Do you run your fans on the insert?

 

[Niko]

6' by 2' are not small windows at all and yes they are double hung and open very well. And no there is no way in hell I am knocking them out and putting smaller ones in. That would mean also tearing out all of the original trim which on the inside is American chestnut. And like I said the energy audit showed they were not that bad at all. Since then I have made gasketed wood storm windows that look appropriate and have helped. Honestly I know lots of people with 20 year old modern windows that dont open or close right anymore and leak like crazy way worse than my 100 year old ones even without storms. Yes if they were falling apart or something i would replace them but there is no way I would ever see any return on my investment by replacing them.

Didnt mean smaller windows i meant less of them. I should take out where it says with more custom windows.

 

[jebatty]

I have no objection to "return on investment," but if that's the reason for buying anything, we're all losers. Many of us spend $30-50,000 or more on a new car or pickup and barely blink, and do it again every few years. ROI? Zilch. In fact, that car or truck costs money to own and operate, and it loses monetary value every day we have it. We buy for comfort, style, convenience, ego, pride, and many other reasons, but not for investment.

The same money put into windows buys many things that may have monetary value but still have a negative ROI: maintain or possibly increase the otherwise value of the home, reduce the dollars spent on energy for AC and heating, reduce fading of interior furniture, increase natural lighting to reduce need for other electric lighting, increase ventilation, etc. But two things new windows don't do is lose value from day one and cost money to own and maintain. In fact, maintenance costs likely are less than the old windows.

And new windows bring comfort, style, convenience ego, pride and many other things that make life more enjoyable every day. Postpone the new car or truck, or simply buy a vehicle for its primary purpose of transportation at much less cost and spend the money on something, like windows. Go ahead with new windows. I doubt that choice ever will be regretted.

 

[bholler]

But two things new windows don't do is lose value from day one and cost money to own and maintain. In fact, maintenance costs likely are less than the old windows.

Other than the fact that modern windows only seem to last about 25 years. At that point they start to leak the panes haze ect ect. Where as in that time I will have painted my windows once or twice.

And new windows bring comfort, style, convenience ego, pride and many other things that make life more enjoyable every day. Postpone the new car or truck, or simply buy a vehicle for its primary purpose of transportation at much less cost and spend the money on something, like windows. Go ahead with new windows. I doubt that choice ever will be regretted.

I have to disagree yes I could get windows that look good I have looked at them as an option before I built my storm windows to replace the ugly aluminum triple tracks. And ones that would look good and keep with the style of the house were all in the $1000 a window range for me to buy. But then they are still replacement windows that simply slide into the old jamb. To me this looks like a patch job and it cuts down on the opening size.

I have not and I doubt will ever buy a new vehicle I am happy to buy lease buy backs that a re a couple of years old with low miles and cost 1/3 of new. I find new to just be a waste of money. so not a good analogy for me.

And no tearing out my original windows and putting in disposable ones would not in any way give me a sense of pride or boost my ego at all. They also are not that much more energy efficient than my old windows that still fit very well and do not leak air and the new storms I made that seal well also.

I am not by anymeans saying that replacement windows are not right for anyone. Obviously if you old windows have been neglected and need major work replacements make allot more sense. Or if your windows are a more standard size of you are doing a major remodel where you can resize them that changes things allot. But you are not going to convince me they are right for my house.

 

[jebatty]

bholler, you values are similar to those of my wife and me. As you understand, my point simply was focusing on ROI is not the only relevant factor in making a choice, be it windows or anything else. And I was not trying to convince you that new windows were right for you.

My wife and I did make the choice to buy new windows back in 1992 for our old, drafty lake cabin in the middle of a forested region, with the goal of that becoming our home, which occurred in 1997. The home had to be livable in the coldest winters MN could throw at us (occasional forays into the -40'sF range) and many days below 0F with strong NW windows blowing down from Canada and the arctic. It also had to be economical to heat, with a wood stove in the living room being the heat source of choice, as we are surrounded by a wood supply.

Now, nearly 25 years after installing the windows, which solved most of the draftiness, the house is still heated by that same wood stove, we enjoy the same "new" windows, and the cabin-home is very livable year-round. Winters were and remain one of our favorite seasons. Our windows were 4-pane, two glass and two sheets of plastic between the glass, argon gas, reflecting back summer sun, reflecting in winter heat, etc. These were rated u-.012 center of glass, and they have performed flawlessly.

Agreed, new windows do not meet the needs of everyone. But in our case they made our lake cabin the home we wanted and greatly valued. BTW, we buy only used cars, keep them into the 250,000 - 300,000 mile range, have no truck or motorized toys, are very frugal in our lifestyle, and are very respectful and protective of the natural environment in which we live.

 

[TriggerTime]

Been burning about 2 weeks with my Regency i1200 insert. It's got a tiny box - 1.4 ft3. It's the biggest insert we could find to fit in our tiny old zero clearance fireplace.

House is about 1200 ft2.

I've only been burning pine, pinon, cedar, and some cottonwood. Cottonwood is cheap to get here (Albuquerque) but burns real fast with low BTUs.

Last night I was able to jam the box with 2 pine splits, a small cedar split, and a small pinon split. Got her up over 400 (center of the stove door) and she burned down to coals in about 2 hours on about 20% draft after the fire was established.

I'd like to get some oak and see if I can stretch the burn time out. Oak runs $400 per cord here.

I try to keep the living room - where the stove is - at about 70, and the rest of the house is usually 2 or 3 degrees behind. I've got two little air circulator fans set up. One mixes the air in the stove room (vaulted ceiling). One pulls cold air from the other end of the hall.

For the 20 days prior to installation of the insert, we were using our forced air natural gas furnace about 4 hours per day (set on 68 average during day, 65-66 at night.) It was a fairly mild December. In the couple weeks since installation, we've used the furnace about 1.5 hours per day, and the weather has been quite a bit cooler with a couple of snow / rain storms to boot.

Even though she's small. I like our new little stove insert. I'm going through a lot of wood though. Gonna have to fire up the chainsaw and the truck this spring and summer to get ready for next winter!