Can an Over fire be stopped?

[Dale.Z]

I am starting to get the hang of heating with my new Summit Insert but one thing I am not sure about is what if it goes into a over fire condition? How does a guy stop such a thing or is it even possible to do so? Sorry if the answer has already been posted I couldn't find it doing a search.

Thanks

 

[greythorn3]

maybe close down air intake and exhaust dampner, that might help

 

[Highbeam]

Close down the air intake as much as possible and sit back and relax. Nothing you can do. I've been there many times where the stoves is above the max temp that I feel comfortable with but the inside of the firebox is a raging inferno of hell despite the air control being at 0%.

There's the point where you just sit back and wait for the thing to settle down and just see what happens. I will admit that I've sat there and waited for it to settle before going to bed. It's one thing to lose control, it's another thing to lose control and then ignore the problem. You need to be ready to take the next step.

 

[par0thead151]

also, tossing wet news paper on the fire canhelp as well(so i have read)
use common sense on this though, make sure the news paper is not soaking wet, and certainly not wet enough for water to be drippng off of it. lots of water pooling off the news paper, and onto your stove could cause it to crack...

 

[BrotherBart]

The best way is just to prevent it in the first place by starting to close down the primary air in stages as the stove top crosses 450 to 500 degrees. Otherwise I haven't ever had one run away from me over 750 degrees with the primary air shut all the way down except my old stove and that was because of a cracked firebox letting air in. Ya can't stop that stuff.

 

[BrotherBart]

also, tossing wet news paper on the fire canhelp as well(so i have read)
use common sense on this though, make sure the news paper is not soaking wet, and certainly not wet enough for water to be drippng off of it. lots of water pooling off the news paper, and onto your stove could cause it to crack...

Don't even THINK about opening that stove door. And leave your wet newspapers on the porch.

 

[pybyr]

I don't have any experience with this appliance being discussed, but I am a BIG fan of CO2 fire extinguishers-- they can put the brakes on a fire without any water being involved, and without all of the mess of 'modern' dry chemical extinguishers. On my CO2 extinguisher, you can even modulate the amount of C02 released, so that you are not necessarily 'hosing things down'

 

[jadm]

Shutting air down and, since you have an insert, turning the blower up as high as it will go. The cooler air from the blower helps cool down the firebox some.


I have also read here that some people put a fan in front of their stoves, open a window and let the fan blow cold outside air onto the stove. (I have never done that because I have an insert too.)

 

[par0thead151]

also, tossing wet news paper on the fire canhelp as well(so i have read)
use common sense on this though, make sure the news paper is not soaking wet, and certainly not wet enough for water to be drippng off of it. lots of water pooling off the news paper, and onto your stove could cause it to crack...

Don't even THINK about opening that stove door. And leave your wet newspapers on the porch.

im new to this, but when i open my door the temps fall, a lot.
these are the temps in the stove(the glowing embers) not the flue temps, as i do not have access to a clear shot of the flu to get a reading.
i read about the wet news paper on this forum, by a few members.
so it is a bad idea to do this?

 

[WES999]

As others have said, close the air, turn the blower on high. If you know where the secondary air intake is you can cover it with some aluminum foil. I had to do this once and it works like a charm.
Probably a good idea to locate the air intake before you really need it.

 

[littlesmokey]

Three parts of a fire: Fuel, Oxygen, Heat. Deny the "fire" as many of those as possible. Just don't panic and approach it in a sensible way. Overfire is not unheard of by all of us at some time or other.

 

[annette]

My chimney, which is just enough for good draft, is just enough for overfire when we get around -5 degrees or colder outside. I had a few scary nights last winter (thermo said 900-1000). Each time I tried something different to keep the stove under control, until I accepted that the draft is in control and at really cold temperatures, I can only feed the stove a little at a time. I did try foil over my primary air intake on one or two of these occasions, which did not seem to do anything on my stove. I put a couple of big pans of cold water on the stove and blew a fan towards it on high, made sure all the combustibles were well away from the stove, and stayed up really late. (I later realized that the door gasket needed to be replaced, which did not help, I'm sure!)

So to me, the key is that really cold temps completely change my draft and the way my stove operates. That was my 2nd full winter with the stove, but it just hadn't gotten that cold before. That's something I hope all newer burners will keep in mind when the temps plummet.

 

[Jags]

i read about the wet news paper on this forum, by a few members.
so it is a bad idea to do this?

Just cuz it was on the internet don't make it true. The one member in particular that used to push this idea has been...well, he just ain't here no more.

In the case of an over fire - DON'T open the door, and DON'T add water to the firebox.

 

[Northern NH Mike]

i read about the wet news paper on this forum, by a few members.
so it is a bad idea to do this?

Just cuz it was on the internet don't make it true. The one member in particular that used to push this idea has been...well, he just ain't here no more.

In the case of an over fire - DON'T open the door, and DON'T add water to the firebox.

To me this sounds like the advice about not opening a door to a burning room. The rush or air into the box adds fuel to the fire and the rush of heat out of the stove is going to be pretty uncomfortable.

I agree with looking for your secondary. I have a "cap" for my secondary intake and have experimented with shutting down the primary, and bypass and capping the secondary. Fire dies within two or three minutes and stove can cool down. Haven't had to use it as the sitting back and waiting method typically brings everything back to normal.

 

[creeker]

Thanks for this thread. Very useful to newbies. Especially the info about changing draft conditions based on outside air temp. As a first year burner, and very enthusiastic, I've been burning at the slightest opportunity. I can imagine that when the temps start really dropping, I might think about hurrying to stoke that box up really well and not taking into consideration the draft conditions. Something to consider. At this point, I have a tough enough time getting my Hearthstone Phoenix up into the 450's. Could be the wood, but the outside air temp may be part of it, too. Yes?

 

[smokingolf]

I don't have any experience with this appliance being discussed, but I am a BIG fan of CO2 fire extinguishers-- they can put the brakes on a fire without any water being involved, and without all of the mess of 'modern' dry chemical extinguishers. On my CO2 extinguisher, you can even modulate the amount of C02 released, so that you are not necessarily 'hosing things down'

I am not a firefighter, but have gone to the Connecticut Fire Academy for Fire Extinguisher training for the company I work for and from all my limited experiance is that you are supposed to aim a CO2 extinguisher away from the fire then sweep it towards the base of the fire as not to spread the fire with a blast of CO2. I can't imagine shooting a CO2 extinguisher into a stove and not blast out burning residue from the fire. Any Firefighters on this forum please correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry to disagree with you Pybyr. I've only one over-fire and that was last Thanksgiving day, shut down the air and opened a window to cool down the living room.

Good luck and may we all never have an over-fire.

Brian

 

[EatenByLimestone]

This is what I have done to lower the surface temp of the stove:

Close down primary.

Turn on blower and any other fan in the room. I have a few cage fans that I use to move air into other rooms. They can easily be moved around the stove if need be.

Add large pots of water to the top. Water is an excellent heat sink and will pull off heat. We have large lobster pots and stew pots that work for this. Don't pour water on the stove as it could crack it.

Sit on couch by fire and stress out a bit. There isn't much else you can do, but it feels good to stress out a little.

Matt

 

[vtburner]

I don't have any experience with this appliance being discussed, but I am a BIG fan of CO2 fire extinguishers-- they can put the brakes on a fire without any water being involved, and without all of the mess of 'modern' dry chemical extinguishers. On my CO2 extinguisher, you can even modulate the amount of C02 released, so that you are not necessarily 'hosing things down'

I am not a firefighter, but have gone to the Connecticut Fire Academy for Fire Extinguisher training for the company I work for and from all my limited experiance is that you are supposed to aim a CO2 extinguisher away from the fire then sweep it towards the base of the fire as not to spread the fire with a blast of CO2. I can't imagine shooting a CO2 extinguisher into a stove and not blast out burning residue from the fire. Any Firefighters on this forum please correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry to disagree with you Pybyr. I've only one over-fire and that was last Thanksgiving day, shut down the air and opened a window to cool down the living room.

Good luck and may we all never have an over-fire.

Brian

maybe a silly idea, but How about shooting it (the CO2 extinguisher) at/near your air intake so as to replace the oxygen it is sucking in with CO2? That way you don't have to open the door OR risk blowing fire all over your living room?


Also, this won't help you guys with the inserts, but I have a wicked old leaky stove and my good-ol stovepipe damper can shut that baby down from a roar almost instantly when it tries to run away.. which is pretty much every time I load it. I am planning on keeping the damper in once I get my new stove, and while I may not use it regularly, I figure it will probably be awesomely effective at shutting down an overfire if it ever happens to me. Maybe someone who actually has a nice stove now with a flue damper on it can confirm/shoot down this one. Installing a damper if you don't have one is a breeze, too.

 

[prajna101]

I have thought about the CO2 fire extinguisher idea too. But not to open the door and shoot into the firebox. but to close down all the air intake then just slowing cover the whole fireplace area with the CO2. This would cool down the stove and deprive air from all entrances such as secondarys and any leaks around gaskets and such. Just closing air intakes off reduces the O2 by also filling the surrounding are with co2 would seem to remove any ability for the fire to breath.

I dont know that this would work. But I am interested in what others think. Especially the firefighters. Is there a chance at cracking stuff with the very cold co2? such as the glass or even the metal?

It makes sense to me, but I am uneducated and generally misinformed like many Americans. Ignorance doesnt stop me from voting, or my right to burn my house down.

Todd

 

[littlesmokey]

I have thought about the CO2 fire extinguisher idea too. But not to open the door and shoot into the firebox. but to close down all the air intake then just slowing cover the whole fireplace area with the CO2. This would cool down the stove and deprive air from all entrances such as secondarys and any leaks around gaskets and such. Just closing air intakes off reduces the O2 by also filling the surrounding are with co2 would seem to remove any ability for the fire to breath.

I dont know that this would work. But I am interested in what others think. Especially the firefighters. Is there a chance at cracking stuff with the very cold co2? such as the glass or even the metal?

It makes sense to me, but I am uneducated and generally misinformed like many Americans. Ignorance doesnt stop me from voting, or my right to burn my house down.

Todd

I'm not a firefighter, but I can say the temp contrast may not crack a steel stove, but will warp it. A cast stove may be on the way to the scrap yard.

We are talking about an overfire, not an out-of-control firebox, right?

I have had stoves glow dull red and been able to shut the air down and bring her back. That's a, "Whoa, Nellie". Can't be more over heated than thatk, without being out of control, right? My fault, wasn't paying attention and let the pre-burn go too far.

 

[vtburner]

I would definitely say you could crack stuff with the CO2... I was envisioning just squirting it carefully towards the intake to suffocate the fire while being careful not to hit the stove with cold CO2.

 

[vtburner]

I think the convo started by just talking about basic overfire, but then expanded into the "what if" area after the original responders replied about shutting down the air. (the "what if" being "what if closing the air doesnt work")

 

[Pauly]

would putting a dampner in the double wall stove pipe and throttling it way back help in an overfire condition? I had my first fire in my new PE last nite and dont like the total lack of control. With my old Craftstove insert, all I had to do was close down the stove dampner all the way and the fire would quickly die down.

 

[vtburner]

would putting a dampner in the double wall stove pipe and throttling it way back help in an overfire condition? I had my first fire in my new PE last nite and dont like the total lack of control. With my old Craftstove insert, all I had to do was close down the stove dampner all the way and the fire would quickly die down.

I'd say yes, since I have good experience shutting down my stove from a full on roar with a damper, and it works like a charm. Mine is a real basic old stove though, so I would wait to hear from someone who has a more modern stove to see if it holds true with secondary burners, baffles and whatnot (I dont see why it wouldnt, but either way I still think it would be nice to have that extra level of control. Also my local shop owner told me even with modern stoves you can extend burn times with a damper if you set it right based on your draft, even though they arent strictly neccessary)

I will also note, that if you do install a damper you need to experiment with it and see what it does at different settings, tempuratures, etc, because how much damping you need will depend on your current draft. You also need to be careful not to slam the damper shut too much or too quickly, or you will pressurize your stove and blow smoke out of every crack and joint in the stovepipe. It takes learning just like anything else.

 

[btuser]

co2 will extinguish the flame & ascend the flue. the wood without a flame is still offgassing & fill the stove with explosive smoke. water will extinguish & cool the fire thru evaporation. it will take longer to ascend the flue. a wet newspaper in a plastic bag will release the water slowly after the plastic melts.

Sure thing, just go ahead and open her up.

I'm gonna stand over here...........