Can't Help But Overfire

[tryin.not.to.burn.the.house.down]

This is the second year running our Lopi Liberty. Last year we had TERRIBLE wood that was delivered and had a heck of a time even starting a fire. This spring we were forced to cut down a 200+ year old sugar maple on our property and now we can't keep this baby lower than 500-550 on a low burn. I know running hot can help keep the creosote down, but I am concerned about over-firing. How hot is too hot and how often is too often? Thanks!

 

[pen]

500-550 is not overfire territory. Rather, that's just letting the stove stretch it's legs.

Now, if we were talking over 750 consistently while trying to whoa things down, then it might be a different story and we'd be looking for a leak somewhere.

I am assuming stove top temps and not pipe temps right?

Congrats on burning dry wood!

pen

 

[begreen]

Dry wood is nice, eh?

500-550 sounds like cruising temps for the stovetop. Where are you measuring the temperature and how? I would say that you are safe to about 800 on the stove top before worrying about getting close to overfiring. Not that you are likely to get there frequently, but it takes a bit more heat to overfire. If you are worried about the zones on the thermometer, don't. They are designed for when the thermometer is used on single-wall stove pipe.

 

[thewoodlands]

This is the second year running our Lopi Liberty. Last year we had TERRIBLE wood that was delivered and had a heck of a time even starting a fire. This spring we were forced to cut down a 200+ year old sugar maple on our property and now we can't keep this baby lower than 500-550 on a low burn. I know running hot can help keep the creosote down, but I am concerned about over-firing. How hot is too hot and how often is too often? Thanks!

Stove top temps for the Lopi Liberty, low burn is 200-400 degrees, a medium burn is 400-600 and 600-800 degrees is considered a high burn. Info came from Travis Industries.

Zap

 

[tryin.not.to.burn.the.house.down]

Oh, on high burn I can get this bad girl to 700+ so far without trying too hard. I have the thermometer on the stovetop. It is difficult because I'll load it up and before you know it is up to 600-650 and then when I put it to a low burn it takes a long while to come down again. I love how she is buring, but it's a little scary.

 

[pen]

Oh, on high burn I can get this bad girl to 700+ so far without trying too hard. I have the thermometer on the stovetop. It is difficult because I'll load it up and before you know it is up to 600-650 and then when I put it to a low burn it takes a long while to come down again. I love how she is buring, but it's a little scary.

What's amazing is that it is safer this way!

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah I know what you mean. Along about 700 degrees ya start wondering if it is gonna stop going up.

 

[begreen]

Oh, on high burn I can get this bad girl to 700+ so far without trying too hard. I have the thermometer on the stovetop. It is difficult because I'll load it up and before you know it is up to 600-650 and then when I put it to a low burn it takes a long while to come down again. I love how she is buring, but it's a little scary.

Get used to 600-650. As the wood outgasses and secondary combustion kicks in, a lot of heat is released. Our stove hits that temp or higher with every full fuel feed in the winter. In the spring and fall try half loads of wood to reduce higher temp forays. But don't worry too much, you have a tough stove built to heat.

 

[ROBERT F]

Runnin a lopi liberty and 650 to 700 on stove top is where she likes to shine. 600 to 650 is perfect for damping it down a little and watching the secondary flames roll around in the box I have used an ir thermometer on mine before when at high fire and reads 850. travis industries says temps exceeding 800 degrees messured directly over the door on the stove top are generally considered over-firing. Page 17 of the lopi liberty owners manual.

 

[Corey]

... I love how she is buring, but it's a little scary.

Meh...scary is glowing red AND having the air closed all the way down AND hearing crackling start moving up the stove pipe. Then all you can do is press "9" then "1" and keep your finger above the "1" in case things go really bad and you need to press it quick. 650-700 is just a good efficient toasty burn. Surprised you're hitting that this early in the year, but I guess some locations are already freezing or below.

Good luck - you'll probably enjoy those temps more as winter approaches!

 

[savageactor7]

500-550 is the sweet spot...don't worry about it.

 

[Nessuno]

Oh, on high burn I can get this bad girl to 700+ so far without trying too hard. I have the thermometer on the stovetop. It is difficult because I'll load it up and before you know it is up to 600-650 and then when I put it to a low burn it takes a long while to come down again. I love how she is buring, but it's a little scary.

Get used to 600-650. As the wood outgasses and secondary combustion kicks in, a lot of heat is released. Our stove hits that temp or higher with every full fuel feed in the winter. In the spring and fall try half loads of wood to reduce higher temp forays. But don't worry too much, you have a tough stove built to heat.

I'm confused (which is why i'm posting). The rutland stove thermometer has overfiring starting at 560-570. Once I have a coal bed and temp drops to like 300, I add 3 pieces of Birch. 3 pieces is minimum to have a "tunnel" like the manual for Englander 30-NCH. It catches and makes a tunnel to get air to the back of the box, burns VERY nice like this. Well, it gets that secondary burn at the top going which is what I want. Burn alot of pine too :/ Then I look at the thermometer and it's up at 600. I have it placed right in front of the exit pipe on top of the stove which is definately the hottest place on the stove. It'll stay like that for 1/2 hour or so... which is in that OVERFIRE zone on the rutland thermometer. Up till the wood becomes charcaolish, I like the way it burns... burns everything and the methane. I don't want to dampen it down and let the methane escape without burning. I'm also paranoid about pine, hot burn is making it burn real nice and clean. Hot for me is like 550-600 till charcoalish.

So here's my question, even though I'm overfiring according to the rutland thermometer, am I burning too hot? Englander 30-NCH, different company and different stove may have different temps. Stove was a real bargain and thought it may affect safe burning temps. Rutland thermometer was a real bargain too and still not completely confident about it's readings.

 

[oconnor]

Your Rutland Thermometer is graduated for surface temps of the very thin stove pipe, not for the stove top. When on the stove top, I disregard the descriptions and look for the temperature only.

 

[Pagey]

That range on the Rutland is for a single wall stove pipe, and it refers to the flue gas temp range, not the stove top temp range. The stove top temp range is specified by the manufacturer.

 

[SlyFerret]

When I close the door on my 30, I always make sure that I take my hand and bump down a couple times on the handle to make sure that the door closes good and snug. I don't have to hit it hard, but I make sure to close it tighter than just turning the handle to the lock position.

If I don't do this, I have a little less control over the air intake because some air manages to slip past the gasket.

500-550, as others have said, is right in my cruising range. It's where the stove wants to run, and where the glass stays clean.

-SF

 

[firefighterjake]

Oh, on high burn I can get this bad girl to 700+ so far without trying too hard. I have the thermometer on the stovetop. It is difficult because I'll load it up and before you know it is up to 600-650 and then when I put it to a low burn it takes a long while to come down again. I love how she is buring, but it's a little scary.

Get used to 600-650. As the wood outgasses and secondary combustion kicks in, a lot of heat is released. Our stove hits that temp or higher with every full fuel feed in the winter. In the spring and fall try half loads of wood to reduce higher temp forays. But don't worry too much, you have a tough stove built to heat.

I'm confused (which is why i'm posting). The rutland stove thermometer has overfiring starting at 560-570. Once I have a coal bed and temp drops to like 300, I add 3 pieces of Birch. 3 pieces is minimum to have a "tunnel" like the manual for Englander 30-NCH. It catches and makes a tunnel to get air to the back of the box, burns VERY nice like this. Well, it gets that secondary burn at the top going which is what I want. Burn alot of pine too :/ Then I look at the thermometer and it's up at 600. I have it placed right in front of the exit pipe on top of the stove which is definately the hottest place on the stove. It'll stay like that for 1/2 hour or so... which is in that OVERFIRE zone on the rutland thermometer. Up till the wood becomes charcaolish, I like the way it burns... burns everything and the methane. I don't want to dampen it down and let the methane escape without burning. I'm also paranoid about pine, hot burn is making it burn real nice and clean. Hot for me is like 550-600 till charcoalish.

So here's my question, even though I'm overfiring according to the rutland thermometer, am I burning too hot? Englander 30-NCH, different company and different stove may have different temps. Stove was a real bargain and thought it may affect safe burning temps. Rutland thermometer was a real bargain too and still not completely confident about it's readings.

You've already touched on this a bit . . . Rutland, Condar and whatever other companies are making thermometers use those overfire temps as a guide . . . some stove manufacturers will tell you that the official overfire temp is higher or lower than the indicating marks on the thermometers . . . and some companies appear to not want to give any concrete number.

From other posts with folks with Englanders I think 600 degrees is not out of line . . . but perhaps other Englander users will chime in to tell you what they've found. I know the Oslo likes temps to be 450-600 and 650-700 is the ut-oh-we-better-back-this-temp-down soon mark.

A few other items . . . generally when we talk about overfire temps for a stove we're talking about the stove top temp . . . although where one places the thermometer is up to the manufacturer or in the absense of a manufacturer's specifications folks here will come to a general consensus. On the Jotul Oslo for example, the thermometer placement is recommended in one of the four top corners . . . another company may want the thermometer to be in the center of the stove top . . . and inserts may need the thermometer on the front of the stove. Perhaps folks with your make and model will suggest the best placement.

Second, there is a difference between the overfire temp for a stove and chimney. Be aware that while any "stove" thermometer can be used on the chimney or a stove but the numbers or rather the corresponding "safe burning", "OK", "overfiring" labels may not match up. For example, you can have a stove that overfires at 700 degrees, but if you're using a thermometer that is meant for placement on a flue, 700 degrees is right in the A-OK burning range. You can still use that thermometer on the stove top to avoid overfiring, but you want to pay attention to the numbers and not the labels.

Finally, methane? I don't believe methane will be an issue while burning with wood. Most folks are more concerned with the smoke and carbon monoxide . . .

 

[Crabby]

I am some troubles with my Englander 30 with high temps. for the second night in a row, i had it up to 750. I have had to slide the air control all the way in. I don't know what i am doing for it to do that. I got home last night about 9 stove top temp was maybe 400 with just hot coals. I stirred it around a bit, added 3 pieces wide open for a second got the stove pipe about 400 and shut the air control till the end of the handle was just under the lip of the shelf below the door. the flames died down and secondaries kicked in. the stove top stayed about 400 for a while, so i checked the stove 15 mins later it raised to 600, a min or 2 later it was 700, so i slide the air control in almost all the way but maybe left it out a 1/4". that didn't stop it. it got to 750 so i shut it all the way and it stayed there for about 30 mins and started to go down. then i opened it back up about 1/4" the flames come back and started to rise again but they stayed about 650. i said heck with it and went to bed. that has happened to me twice now. is that normal for a 30 to do that.

 

[cycloxer]

I know the Oslo likes temps to be 450-600 and 650-700 is the ut-oh-we-better-back-this-temp-down soon mark.

I'll second that for my Castine. I hit 650 last night and I was like, uhh, I think this is enough. You could just sense that the stove didn't need to get much hotter. I went to full air closed and the temp climbed to 700 before backing off. Completely normal.

You don't want to burn below 400 degrees as you can't release the energy out of the wood. Things just smolder and you muck up the stove and your flue pipe. I'd shoot for 500-600, of course this varies with every stove and also how many BTU's per hour you are trying to extract. Above 700 and start to tread the fine line between wicked hot and metal warping hot.

 

[rdust]

I have the Endeavor which is a smaller version of the Liberty and my cruise temps are 600-650, usually it'll peak a little over 700 before it starts coming down. Everyone says to char the wood before starting to dampen it down and wait 10 minutes between changes, I find this hard to do without it getting away on me. Now that it's getting colder out I'm running the blower on low and that helps keep the stove top temps in check. The manual says 800 is considered over firing so I try to stay 100 lower then that number for piece of mind.