Cast iron or soapstone?

[BrowningBAR]

Oh yeah...

The best thing I noticed about soapstone stoves is the uniform temperature all over the stove. I like standing next to my cast stove when it is cranking, but it definitely has hot spots. When I went to Woodstock last year, I brought along my IR thermometer. I was amazed at how even the whole outside was. About 525º everywhere I aimed the red dot at. A stove that is putting out 525º all over is putting out a lot more total heat than a stove that has a 650º top and 350º sides. Feels better, too.

I'm sold on soapstone and I'm sold on cat stoves. I can't wait to find a new house and close on it so I can start stove shopping at the Woodstock plant.

My Heritage varies in temperature quite a bit. Maybe not as much as the Vigilant, but there is still quite a temp swing from location to location.

As an example; top center stone can read 600 and the back corner could read 450.

 

[Battenkiller]

Personally, I think they both heat about the same, with a bit of an edge to going cast iron for getting up to temp quicker. We're not 24/7 burners, so this makes a real world difference for us.

But I will say that I've yet to see a soapstone stove that I really liked the looks of, whereas to me several of the cast iron stoves are quite attractive. I also would much prefer to move a cast iron stove vs a soapstone stove if we had to move, decided to change stoves, etc.

I also agree that it's speculative at best to recommend a stove that no one has ever used---any company is capable of making a dud. Personally I don't want to be a guinea pig...not with something as big and as heavy and as expensive as a new wood stove.

But when you can save over a grand just by buying it now? And still buy risk-free?

What other company making any product comes even close to that kind of confidence in their wares?

 

[Battenkiller]

Oh yeah...

The best thing I noticed about soapstone stoves is the uniform temperature all over the stove. I like standing next to my cast stove when it is cranking, but it definitely has hot spots. When I went to Woodstock last year, I brought along my IR thermometer. I was amazed at how even the whole outside was. About 525º everywhere I aimed the red dot at. A stove that is putting out 525º all over is putting out a lot more total heat than a stove that has a 650º top and 350º sides. Feels better, too.

I'm sold on soapstone and I'm sold on cat stoves. I can't wait to find a new house and close on it so I can start stove shopping at the Woodstock plant.

My Heritage varies in temperature quite a bit. Maybe not as much as the Vigilant, but there is still quite a temp swing from location to location.

As an example; top center stone can read 600 and the back corner could read 450.

I was measuring a Fireview. Who knows? Maybe I caught them on a good day.

 

[BrotherBart]

If you can't have a good steel stove then I guess soapstone or cast iron will have to do. And you don't even want me to drag up the dialog with Dennis' concerns about Woodstock and the stove before he bought that Fireview. :lol:

A big honkin iron stove or soaprock one is gonna take a while to heat up and cool down. Put them side by side and you are not going to notice a difference. Hell, I have a 455 pound hunk of plate steel and firebrick and it takes it forever to cool down.

 

[Nonprophet]

Personally, I think they both heat about the same, with a bit of an edge to going cast iron for getting up to temp quicker. We're not 24/7 burners, so this makes a real world difference for us.

But I will say that I've yet to see a soapstone stove that I really liked the looks of, whereas to me several of the cast iron stoves are quite attractive. I also would much prefer to move a cast iron stove vs a soapstone stove if we had to move, decided to change stoves, etc.

I also agree that it's speculative at best to recommend a stove that no one has ever used---any company is capable of making a dud. Personally I don't want to be a guinea pig...not with something as big and as heavy and as expensive as a new wood stove.

But when you can save over a grand just by buying it now? And still buy risk-free?

What other company making any product comes even close to that kind of confidence in their wares?

I admire Woodstock for their money back guarantee--it says a lot about the company.

That said, transporting, installing, testing, removing, and then returning a 500+ lb wood stove is NOT a simple endeavor--whether you live an hour away from the factory or 3,000 miles away like I do. Yes, you can save a grand buying on now, you can save a heck of a lot more buy buying a used one too.....


NP

 

[BrotherBart]

That said, transporting, installing, testing, removing, and then returning a 500+ lb wood stove is NOT a simple endeavor--whether you live an hour away from the factory or 3,000 miles away like I do.

Ding, ding, ding. I bought a busted stove and installed it and then installed the replacement. The company was great but the effort was a butt buster. These things ain't a bag of stale potato chips that you toss on the seat and take back to the store.

But I will say that, just like with Woodstock, I was dealing directly with the manufacturer and didn't have to dink around with a dealer in the middle not wanting to do the work.

 

[CTYank]

Personally, I think they both heat about the same, with a bit of an edge to going cast iron for getting up to temp quicker. We're not 24/7 burners, so this makes a real world difference for us.

But I will say that I've yet to see a soapstone stove that I really liked the looks of, whereas to me several of the cast iron stoves are quite attractive. I also would much prefer to move a cast iron stove vs a soapstone stove if we had to move, decided to change stoves, etc.

I also agree that it's speculative at best to recommend a stove that no one has ever used---any company is capable of making a dud. Personally I don't want to be a guinea pig...not with something as big and as heavy and as expensive as a new wood stove.

But when you can save over a grand just by buying it now? And still buy risk-free?

What other company making any product comes even close to that kind of confidence in their wares?

I admire Woodstock for their money back guarantee--it says a lot about the company.

That said, transporting, installing, testing, removing, and then returning a 500+ lb wood stove is NOT a simple endeavor--whether you live an hour away from the factory or 3,000 miles away like I do. Yes, you can save a grand buying on now, you can save a heck of a lot more buy buying a used one too.....
NP

Exactly. It is NOT risk-free- nothing is. At best, you can minimize risk. Folks are asking others for a leap of faith.

There's been no mention yet about importance of insulating the firebox for completeness of combustion. No matter what the box is made of, you want to keep firebox temps up, with insulating material surrounding the fire. Do soapstone stoves have the soapstone adjacent to the fire, and if so, how effective is it at insulating the firebox?

 

[Battenkiller]

I bought a busted stove and installed it and then installed the replacement. The company was great but the effort was a butt buster. These things ain't a bag of stale potato chips that you toss on the seat and take back to the store.

Well, looks like there is a similar risk involved with the purchase of any new stove, aint there? ;-P

The big difference is that Woodstock will not only pay for the return shipping of the stove, they will give you all your money back for the stove. Try that with a defective Jotul or Vermont Castings with six months use on it.


Take your truck to the Hearth.com gathering, bring back a new Woodstock Progresso Hybrido. Install it, use it all season long, box it up and move the crated stove outside for pickup. But they're betting that you won't do that.

 

[firefighterjake]

If you can't have a good steel stove then I guess soapstone or cast iron will have to do. And you don't even want me to drag up the dialog with Dennis' concerns about Woodstock and the stove before he bought that Fireview. :lol:

A big honkin iron stove or soaprock one is gonna take a while to heat up and cool down. Put them side by side and you are not going to notice a difference. Hell, I have a 455 pound hunk of plate steel and firebrick and it takes it forever to cool down.

Similar thoughts here as well . . . mass (whether cast iron, a whole lot of steel and firebrick or soapstone) is a major factor in how fast the stove starts radiating the heat and how long it keeps radiating the heat . . . this time of year it takes an hour or so before the room starts to feel warm with my Oslo . . . but the flip side is that one fire started in the morning or evening keeps the house warm for a long time as the heat continues to radiate off that mass of cast iron.

 

[Highbeam]

Take your truck to the Hearth.com gathering, bring back a new Woodstock Progresso Hybrido. Install it, use it all season long, box it up and move the crated stove outside for pickup. But they're betting that you won't do that.

I don't think anyone is leaving the gathering with a PH. They aren't even in production yet. They don't even know the clearances yet.

3600$ is ridiculous and if that's the price they end up asking then, well, I think they are doomed to fail. One of the great things about woodstock is that the stove prices were pretty decent, decent enough to make up for the mail order risk. This is of course my opinion and I know some of the serious woodstock heros on this board (you know who you are)wont' like it.

Make no mistake, anybody getting the early bird price for this new woodstock stove IS the guinea pig. It is a calculated risk and a pretty small one given the great company but it is a risk. I would never recommend a stove before having some experience with it whether that is based on a very detailed review from a trusted source or from personal experience. For example, the fireview is a great stove with a long and excellent track record. I would love to own a fireview and would recommend it to someone I thought would be capable of running a cat stove.

When considering folks' experience with soapstone be sure to consider whether they are running a cat or non-cat stone stove. The cat element on a fireview (the most common cat stoner) is right on top of the stove under a relatively thin liftable lid. That fireview appears to heat up much quicker, at least the top, than a non-cat hearthstone which depends on the heat of the actual fire to warm the stove. I can tell you, from my actual experience, that non-cat soapstone stoves take a long time to heat up. A long time to begin heating the room. Yes, you will get some heat through the window to warm your palms but it will take hours before mojo is being made if you are starting with a cold stove/room. Keep the stove warm and this warm up time issue is a non-issue, instead, the thermal mass becomes a flywheel that smooths out the heat peaks.

 

[Todd]

Oh yeah...

The best thing I noticed about soapstone stoves is the uniform temperature all over the stove. I like standing next to my cast stove when it is cranking, but it definitely has hot spots. When I went to Woodstock last year, I brought along my IR thermometer. I was amazed at how even the whole outside was. About 525º everywhere I aimed the red dot at. A stove that is putting out 525º all over is putting out a lot more total heat than a stove that has a 650º top and 350º sides. Feels better, too.

I'm sold on soapstone and I'm sold on cat stoves. I can't wait to find a new house and close on it so I can start stove shopping at the Woodstock plant.

My Heritage varies in temperature quite a bit. Maybe not as much as the Vigilant, but there is still quite a temp swing from location to location.

As an example; top center stone can read 600 and the back corner could read 450.

I was measuring a Fireview. Who knows? Maybe I caught them on a good day.

Double walled soapstone evens out the heat better.

 

[Todd]

If you can't have a good steel stove then I guess soapstone or cast iron will have to do. And you don't even want me to drag up the dialog with Dennis' concerns about Woodstock and the stove before he bought that Fireview. :lol:

A big honkin iron stove or soaprock one is gonna take a while to heat up and cool down. Put them side by side and you are not going to notice a difference. Hell, I have a 455 pound hunk of plate steel and firebrick and it takes it forever to cool down.

You will just never understand til you burn one of those rock stoves, there is a difference.

 

[Todd]

Personally, I think they both heat about the same, with a bit of an edge to going cast iron for getting up to temp quicker. We're not 24/7 burners, so this makes a real world difference for us.

But I will say that I've yet to see a soapstone stove that I really liked the looks of, whereas to me several of the cast iron stoves are quite attractive. I also would much prefer to move a cast iron stove vs a soapstone stove if we had to move, decided to change stoves, etc.

I also agree that it's speculative at best to recommend a stove that no one has ever used---any company is capable of making a dud. Personally I don't want to be a guinea pig...not with something as big and as heavy and as expensive as a new wood stove.

But when you can save over a grand just by buying it now? And still buy risk-free?

What other company making any product comes even close to that kind of confidence in their wares?

I admire Woodstock for their money back guarantee--it says a lot about the company.

That said, transporting, installing, testing, removing, and then returning a 500+ lb wood stove is NOT a simple endeavor--whether you live an hour away from the factory or 3,000 miles away like I do. Yes, you can save a grand buying on now, you can save a heck of a lot more buy buying a used one too.....
NP

Exactly. It is NOT risk-free- nothing is. At best, you can minimize risk. Folks are asking others for a leap of faith.

There's been no mention yet about importance of insulating the firebox for completeness of combustion. No matter what the box is made of, you want to keep firebox temps up, with insulating material surrounding the fire. Do soapstone stoves have the soapstone adjacent to the fire, and if so, how effective is it at insulating the firebox?

No need to insulate the fire box of the Woodstocks because it's a cat stove. You only need a 400-500 degree fire box verses a 1100 non cat box. Soapstone is less of an insulator than fire bricks but maybe Hearthstone makes up for it by the insulating baffle or letting more air in there?

 

[ddddddden]

Agreed, but the physics say that it's not just about the mass, but mass x specific heat, a measured property of the material that tells how much heat a given mass of it will store. The specific heat of iron and that of steel are about the same. I think iron stoves have a reputation for holding more heat because they're usually made of thicker panels than steel stoves, so they have more mass. The specific heat of soapstone is about twice that of iron/steel, so the math says that 250 lbs of soapstone would hold as much heat as 500 lbs of iron/steel. There are other factors involved, like the amount of surface area radiating the heat. Our big steel insert was installed too differently for a meaningful comparison, but it went cold pretty quickly compared to the freertanding stone stove, which has freaked me out by still being warm to the touch the next day after letting the fire go out due to warm weather arriving. Meaningful heat output, no. Freaky, yes. That's why I say this stove was made by elves.

 

[mhrischuk]

Meaningful heat output, no. Freaky, yes. That's why I say this stove was made by elves.

So my Equinox will have no meaningful heat output?

 

[BrowningBAR]

Meaningful heat output, no. Freaky, yes. That's why I say this stove was made by elves.

So my Equinox will have no meaningful heat output?

Speaking of which, have you lit that thing off, yet?

 

[mhrischuk]

The granite hearth is still upside down in the rec room. Haven't had time to get to it. Vacation and RC Helicopter funfly this weekend This week I'll be cutting the insulation sheet and the durock. The Clydesdale is burning now.

 

[woodlot]

Wow,I am happy with all of the response from my iron or stone question.After reading all of the comments and leaning toward the soapstone initially I am going to go with a soap stone stove,still not sure though if it is the hearthstone mansfield or this new wood stock hybrid.We have a hearthstone dealer about 6 miles away ( their public relations are not the best in my opinion ) that makes it easy to get the mansfield as compared to getting the wood stock stove.How ever I am intrigued by this new hybrid stove as well as always liking the side load door (we burned a upland 207 for about 20 yrs. then that defiant for 1 yr.) but I am sure I could get comfortable with a front load.Wood stock tells me the earliest we could get a new hybrid is the end of november,the hearthstone probably beginning of november.Again I wish wood stock was closer,I would love to see this stove in person,they also told me that final U.L testing was to be finished in the beginning of this week and that the results will be posted on their web site.

 

[Highbeam]

The one reason I would skip the mansfield is the lack of a side loading door and those duck feet. You can get real enamel on the hearthstones and I would recommend it over paint that fades quickly. I only use the side door when operating my heritage. The front door on all of the hearthstones is very large for a nice fire view but they are not the best stove access due to smoke spillage and ash spillage. The seal system is marginal and tends to hold ash against the door gasket to be dumped when opening the front door but not the side door.

Why not consider the equinox? It is a super sized heritage and could take advantage of that oversize flue you have.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The one reason I would skip the mansfield is the lack of a side loading door and those duck feet. You can get real enamel on the hearthstones and I would recommend it over paint that fades quickly. I only use the side door when operating my heritage. The front door on all of the hearthstones is very large for a nice fire view but they are not the best stove access due to smoke spillage and ash spillage. The seal system is marginal and tends to hold ash against the door gasket to be dumped when opening the front door but not the side door.

Why not consider the equinox? It is a super sized heritage and could take advantage of that oversize flue you have.

I still think you got a bum deal on your flat black Heritage. I know mine is about the same age as your and my father in-law's was installed in '03 or -04 and both still look new.

 

[mhrischuk]

Here is my Equinox getting tired of sitting outside. It takes an 8" flue.

 

[ddddddden]

Ah, lessee. . .I was trying to post directly after Jake, so my post may make more sense read as a reply to his. (Sorry, but the quote function does not work from my phone. Doh!) And yes, mhrischuk, you will get no meaningful heat output from that Equinox . . .just kidding, I meant when the surface of my stove is ~ 100deg the next day. . ."No meaningful heat output" is a rallying cry from the BK Wars, the standard retort to claims of 30-hr burn times.

 

[begreen]

I suspect that the Equinox would be selling for about twice the price of the F600. Grab that stove before someone else does.

 

[Highbeam]

I still think you got a bum deal on your flat black Heritage. I know mine is about the same age as your and my father in-law's was installed in '03 or -04 and both still look new.

Could be, the paint is faded and gone in several places. I plan to brush or mask and spray the worst of it when I get a chance. My condar surface thermometer took a dump this summer as well. Sheesh, need to go to the store.

 

[ddddddden]

. . .and moving right along to address a few other points in this thread. . .one moment while I put on my "Woodstock Hero" hat. I expressed the same guinnea pig idea to folks who were looking at the new VC's last year. I believe I basically said they would have to offer me 50% off to get me to try a new VC. Well, Woodstock has a more consistent record than VC, and they are offering 33% (?) off + a money-back guarantee. I doubt that anyone who "risked it" on a new VC got a deal like that. I doubt that anyone buying the relatively new Rangely is getting a deal like that. The closest I've heard of anyone coming to getting a deal like that is someone on the forum who went to a dealer to get a Dutchwest. The dealer told him that the Alderlea was a better stove, and guaranteed to exchange it for a Dutchwest if he didn't like the Alderlea. How many dealers would do that? 1 in 100? And an exchange for one of the few brands a dealer carries is still not as good as getting your $ back and buying whatever you want...